Autopsy Hawthorn v Geelong - "they weren't trying"

[Thaihawk]

I'd like to see that!

Me2!

 

[juice t]

Sick of him barracking for your club during the call, I take it?

He's done a great job in convincing me to never buy any Swisse products

 

[QuietB]

Interesting thread, hope you don't mind an enemy supporter posting here.

Interested to know how Hawks fans now perceive the first half.

To me this game almost looked like two clubs doing the opposite thing at the opposite time. I.e. Hawthorn might have come in a bit flat from travel and also expecting that given the ladder situation and time of year that this would be a bruise free, outside game. Cats came in more focused and fired up. Then at half time Geelong seems to have thought, 'if they aren't going to go hard, why should we?' while the Hawks seems to have thought 'crap, they are actually trying, we had better try too or this will be embarassing.' So then they swapped roles, and Hawthorn are much better at converting dominance into goals.

I suspect in two weeks time (assuming no disaster for us in terms of final round results) the game will be much more even in both halves. I am going to need sedation.

I still do not know what to make of this game. Hawthorns first half was terrible but then the cats can do that to the Hawks. Cats second half was horrendous, but then the cats have been suffering 2nd half fade outs all year. So it was all pretty normal

I think there are a lot of positives from a Hawthorn perspective.

1. The cats completely destroyed the Hawks in the first half, yet despite this the cats did not blow the Hawks away on the score board. The Hawks defence certainly stood up.
2. When it was the Hawks turn to dominate play the Hawks scored much more freely.
3. The Hawks also controlled the payers they wanted to get a hold of, Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor & Motlop.

I think the game was played as a dead rubber. But I would think that Hawthorn got more out of it even if it was nothing more than another nail in the curse coffin.

Two weeks time is another chapter and I am sure it will be epic as usual.

 

[Aeon05]

One other thing I observed is that Will Langford has a very buddyesque 'Double cobra" after scoring a goal, I wanna see more of that!

 

[Dinsdale]

The second quarter was also the one most influenced by, what looked like biased umpiring decisions, that definitely favoured Geelong. I believe that upset us to a degree also.

For sure. Both Hodge and Lewis were disgusted disgusted at a couple of decisions, I was thinking "uh-oh, here come the angry pills".

 

[JoondalupJ]

Between the staging and the dodgy goal review a few things went their way.

Its not just me then , but I have to have a rant about Sam 's non goal that was a goal, that is failure of camera operator judgement of the highest degree I've ever seen , simply put , that was a goal. This goal review eqipment needs to be changed to really high tech, or just canned totally . Let the ump decide.

 

[QuietB]

You didn't see the 2 goals he set up in the third quarter against the Swans?
Pretty big game, and a pretty big moment.

He's not an old fashioned, defensive backman, he's a rebounder with the best kicking skills in the competition. Sure, the opposition man him up, it's because he's so dangerous. But when he's tagged, others are free, so it balances out.

He's been regularly criticised here, yet Clarko plays him every week.

I would much rather Litherland. Better defender, better runner, mountains of pace and seemingly all we miss is 2-3 of the rolled gold Suckling kicks a game. If we are relying on 2-3 moments a game to win a premiership then the Hawks are in a world of hurt because there are more than 2-3 moments going the other way.

 

[Hawthorn23]

In hawk video review post but here as well. Awesome game!

 

[Roddy]

http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne...-of-any-wrongdoing-by-the-match-review-panel/

Surprise, surprise umpires pets have been cleared.

Of course he was. It's Duckwood.

 

[vinum coupe]

Its not just me then , but I have to have a rant about Sam 's non goal that was a goal, that is failure of camera operator judgement of the highest degree I've ever seen , simply put , that was a goal. This goal review eqipment needs to be changed to really high tech, or just canned totally . Let the ump decide.

Apparently there is a completely different view that none of us saw that shows it was definitely touched.
FWIW I thought it was a goal from the vision we saw.

I have no idea why the third umpire sees vision we don't. It's stupid.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

If we end up playing Geelong in a QF and (heaven forbid) lose, then we would face Sydney or Freo in a prelim should we make it that far. Winning the QF is therefore a must in this scenario.

If we win the QF we will end up playing $wans/Freo in a PF

 

[QuietB]

Selwood barely touched Rough - there is a reason no one has been running the video and we have only seen the still shots. There is nothing in it - although Selwood does try Boomers move, Rough just too good for him

 

[JoondalupJ]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but I reckon Scott is just playing mind games by suggesting Clarkson has shown his hand. Time will tell but if Geelong uses the first half old school Geelong high possession game by flicking the ball around then I think they'll be in serious trouble against the other top four teams (I include Port in that bunch) in the finals. Time will tell but personally, looking at the game metaphorically, the first half represented the past including all those losses we have suffered and the second half a new world order between the two teams. I think the our blokes showed that they have truly moved on after they moved up a few gears. Of course, Will Langford was the subtext in all of this terms of the future.

Personally for me , and for a long time , I wouldn't know when or if Clarkson shows his hand. I don't think anyone knows what he is up too. He seems to have a plan for every eventuality , including getting into bad spots like the first half on Saturday. Plan A or B , I don't think so, maybe plan A B C D E F G H I J.

Ever since he came to Hawthorn he has been a freakish tactition, that has plans worked out by opposition and he is already on another curve to re confuse the enemy.
I may be biased of course and over doing the comment , but Saturday, Hawthorn made Geelong look like Geelong had no idea what Hawthorn were actually doing.
Tell me if I'm wrong I'm not that up with tactics of the modern game , but that rolling zone of 2008 looked like it happened on Saturday just one half . I saw a full back in the centre and I saw a centre half back (Stratton) drive the ball back inside the fifity from centre half forward.
Every one knows the plan maybe Clarko has many plans and no one knows when he'll implement them.
The most telling thing is that all people who play under Clarko have to know all the plans too. Hence the drop off games occasionally, as players get initiated.

 

[vinum coupe]

Its not just me then , but I have to have a rant about Sam 's non goal that was a goal, that is failure of camera operator judgement of the highest degree I've ever seen , simply put , that was a goal. This goal review eqipment needs to be changed to really high tech, or just canned totally . Let the ump decide.

And I don't want to start angst on this.
However in regards to the bolded.

The umps call was that he touched it. The third ump just confirmed it.

 

[Flukey!]

Interesting thread, hope you don't mind an enemy supporter posting here.

Interested to know how Hawks fans now perceive the first half.

To me this game almost looked like two clubs doing the opposite thing at the opposite time. I.e. Hawthorn might have come in a bit flat from travel and also expecting that given the ladder situation and time of year that this would be a bruise free, outside game. Cats came in more focused and fired up. Then at half time Geelong seems to have thought, 'if they aren't going to go hard, why should we?' while the Hawks seems to have thought 'crap, they are actually trying, we had better try too or this will be embarassing.' So then they swapped roles, and Hawthorn are much better at converting dominance into goals.

I suspect in two weeks time (assuming no disaster for us in terms of final round results) the game will be much more even in both halves. I am going to need sedation.

A few points:
I don't think the Hawks would ever expect to play bruise-free against your mob. It just doesn't happen.
If Geelong thought they wouldn't go hard because the Hawks weren't, that would be a real blight on your club. Surely you have enough guys on your list like Bartel and Hawkins that still love to beat us? Or is the Chappy oath to never lose to us again wearing off now he has gone?
The concern for Geelong should be the 10 unanswered goals. When does that ever happen?

I agree on the need for sedation for next time.

 

[vinum coupe]

Hey guys. Here is some info that some here might be interested in. And some won't care.
I'd do the Hawks setups too if I knew the players.

It's kind of interesting.

Here is the full list of all the centre setups. The bolded is Hawthorns run of goals.


Hmac - Selwood - Duncan - Caddy Lost
Hmac - Hartman - Duncan - Caddy Won
Hmac - Selwood - Guthrie - Caddy Lost
Blicavs - Selwood - Guthrie - Caddy Won
Hmac - Selwood - Guthrie - Motlop (on Mitchell) Lost
Hmac - Selwood - Guthrie - Caddy Won

2/4
Hmac - Selwood - Duncan - Caddy Won
Hmac - Hartman - Duncan - Caddy Won Note the first 2 setups were the same in both 1/4's
Blicavs - Selwood - Guthrie - Hartman - Even
Hmac - Selwood - Guthrie - Caddy Won
Hmac - Selwood - Guthrie - Caddy Won
Hmac - Selwood - Guthrie - Stokes Lost
Blicavs - Selwood - Duncan - Caddy Won

All looks pretty much the same line ups doesn't it?
Things are about to change. Except for the skipper, there's pretty much someone different at every bounce.

3/4
Blicavs - Selwood - Guthrie - Caddy Lost
Hmac - Selwood - Guthrie - Christensen Won
Hmac - Caddy - Guthrie - Christensen Lost
Blicavs - Selwood - Guthrie - Caddy Won
Hmac - Motlop - Guthrie - Caddy Won
Hmac - Selwood - Guthrie - Duncan Lost
Hmac - Selwood - Blicavs - Duncan Lost (This one is just weird. And we lost it naturally).

4/4
Blicavs - Selwood - Stokes - Christensen Lost
Blicavs - Selwood - Stokes - Christensen Lost
HMac - Selwood - Guthrie - Caddy Won (So once in the 2nd half we had what seems to be our preferred setup)
HMac - Selwood - Guthrie - Christensen Lost
HMac - Selwood - Caddy - Bartel Won
Blicavs - Selwood - Guthrie - Bartel - Even
Blicavs - Selwood - Guthrie - Bartel Won
Hmac - Selwood - Duncan - Bartel - Even

 

[BobHawk]

plan A B C D E F G H I J.

Sshhh. You're giving it away.

 

[Davo23]

I would much rather Litherland. Better defender, better runner, mountains of pace and seemingly all we miss is 2-3 of the rolled gold Suckling kicks a game. If we are relying on 2-3 moments a game to win a premiership then the Hawks are in a world of hurt because there are more than 2-3 moments going the other way.

I like Litherland as well, he's got a great future.

But he's a very different player to Suckling. Lithers is primarily a defender, and as a rebounder his kicking is holding him back. He's a very long kick, but he's not accurate.

Litherland is young and will improve.

 

[heh]

One thing with Suckling, while not denying his faults, he does take opposition attention, which helps out the other rebouners. Which is valuable to game plan.

 

[Brishawk]

I would much rather Litherland. Better defender, better runner, mountains of pace and seemingly all we miss is 2-3 of the rolled gold Suckling kicks a game. If we are relying on 2-3 moments a game to win a premiership then the Hawks are in a world of hurt because there are more than 2-3 moments going the other way.

You might be forgetting all the kickins. He is our best option there and we are very good at coast to coast goals as a result.

 

[Boot Studder]

Sshhh. You're giving it away.

But, didn't tell 'em anything about K, L, M, N, O, P.

 

[badgrill]

Its not just me then , but I have to have a rant about Sam 's non goal that was a goal, that is failure of camera operator judgement of the highest degree I've ever seen , simply put , that was a goal. This goal review eqipment needs to be changed to really high tech, or just canned totally . Let the ump decide.

And unless I imagined it there was another one where both the goal and boundary ups were right there but failed to be able to see whether the ball went outta bounds or was a point.

They were standing right there!!!

(was that in our game or another one on the weekend?)

 

[MightyHawks86]

Selwood barely touched Rough - there is a reason no one has been running the video and we have only seen the still shots. There is nothing in it - although Selwood does try Boomers move, Rough just too good for him

I'm inclined to agree. Selwood did drag his arm across Rough's throat for an instant. Rough reacted by twisting and basically rag-dolling Selwood into the turf . The bloke's just too strong to allow Selwood to really 'Boomer' him. Nothing in it really worthy of a report or suspension.

 

[caitsith01]

A few points:
I don't think the Hawks would ever expect to play bruise-free against your mob. It just doesn't happen.
If Geelong thought they wouldn't go hard because the Hawks weren't, that would be a real blight on your club. Surely you have enough guys on your list like Bartel and Hawkins that still love to beat us? Or is the Chappy oath to never lose to us again wearing off now he has gone?
The concern for Geelong should be the 10 unanswered goals. When does that ever happen?

I agree on the need for sedation for next time.

You can look at it that way (being a blight on the club), but what struck me in the second half was a lot of weird positional changes by Geelong, obviously coupled with the Hawks playing a hell of a lot better. Harry Taylor into the forward 50 when we were getting murdered by your boys in our defensive arc being the prime example.

I'm sure there are still plenty of Cats who love to beat the Hawks - some of them looked very unhappy at the end of the game. And Mitch Duncan was on a one man mission to try to stop the rot, too.

At the moment I'm expecting Hawthorn's superior forward options to be the difference in a final. In a weird way the absence of Buddy makes me more worried, the Hawks are much more dangerous when they are unpredictable.

 

[Dinsdale]

You can look at it that way (being a blight on the club), but what struck me in the second half was a lot of weird positional changes by Geelong, obviously coupled with the Hawks playing a hell of a lot better. Harry Taylor into the forward 50 when we were getting murdered by your boys in our defensive arc being the prime example.
<snip>

I viewed the "weird positional changes by Geelong" as a reaction to try to stem the tide, rather than putting players out of position causing the onslaught. Sorry but I dont think Scott is that much of a tactition to engineer an oppositions' 10 goal run.