Help me with my top 20 Players of All time list

[Wallaby]

If you are trying to get down to top 20 of all time I think you can immediately remove Syd Coventry, Bruce Doull, Kevin Murray, Doug Wade, Alex Jesaulenko, Jack Dyer, Keith Greig, Michael Voss, John Nicholls and Nathan Buckley.

I would definitely keep Nicholls, Dyer and Doull in the conversation for Top 20 of all time.

 

[Ricmel]

I would definitely keep Nicholls, Dyer and Doull in the conversation for Top 20 of all time.

Great players....but top 20 of all time? I didn't see Dyer but he was crash and bash man a la Mumford, not sure he was the most skilful footballer.

Nicholls - I saw, very limited player was more a great leader than a great player, I mean he average 12 disposals and 17 hit outs a game, lots of ruckman ahead of him. Doull...just too many great defenders ahead of him. I mean you are talking about Top 20. Is Bruce Doull one of the top 20 players of all time? He simply isn't. Cult figure, fan favourite yes.

 

[B4Bear]

Not enough Barry Cable for me.

 

[GastevsBeard]

Martin’s dominant games are when the Tigers are 6 goals up. No where to be found in the tough games or losing games.

strongly disagree with this

More often than not he is the ignition that starts the team piling on goals. He kicked two of our first four goals in the grand final

 

[Monkey King]

Silvagni does not belong here.

Scarlett better. As was langford.

I saw them all play. SOS was arguably the best fullback of the 3, but hands down he was the best footballer IMO. Could play anywhere on the best and thrive, FB on Dunstall, CHF on Carey, HB and midfield on Hird, Pert on him at FF. So many elite strings to his bow. I guess that’s why Dunstall rated him not only the best defender he’s seen, but a top 5 PLAYER overall too. Plugger rated SOS the best he played on too.

You’re entitled to your opinion otherwise of course, but stating that someone “does not belong here” is getting a bit ahead of yourself.

 

[DAlembert]

More spectacular but surely not a better player?

People in the media make a great deal about Dustin Martin's 2017 season where he averaged 30 disposals & 1.5 goals per game, culminating with the Norm Smith medal and 36 Brownlow votes.
Leigh Matthews averaged 27 disposals & close to 4 goals per game in 1977 and finished with 34 Brownlow votes (didn't even win it!). That is simply absurd. Truly incredible consistency.

The media have short memories.
Guys like Blight, Matthews, Ablett Snr, Jesa, they were incredibly dynamic footballers who consistently won football games off their own boot. More so, they would have loved the game that it is today. The freedom awarded to offensive minded players.

Better mark...better kick...more balanced. Eyes on ball ALL the time. More spectacular to watch period. Only G Ablett better IMHO.
Won't get into the Dusty argument but he does about half the things Jezza could do. Comparing eras is pretty much a waste of time.
The media CGGF

 

[South of the Yarra]

I saw them all play. SOS was arguably the best fullback of the 3, but hands down he was the best footballer IMO. Could play anywhere on the best and thrive, FB on Dunstall, CHF on Carey, HB and midfield on Hird, Pert on him at FF. So many elite strings to his bow. I guess that’s why Dunstall rated him not only the best defender he’s seen, but a top 5 PLAYER overall too. Plugger rated SOS the best he played on too.

You’re entitled to your opinion otherwise of course, but stating that someone “does not belong here” is getting a bit ahead of yourself.

Even matched up to Daicos

 

[Monkey King]

Gary Wilson may not get the rover spot as the best ever but would comfortably sit on the half forward flank unmatched for that position.

Hodge and Judd need spots

So happy to see Wilson’s name. He generally seems to be a forgotten man in these types of threads. Wouldn’t make my best 18 of players seen, but he’d be right in line for a bench or emergency spot.

 

[Seeds]

I saw them all play. SOS was arguably the best fullback of the 3, but hands down he was the best footballer IMO. Could play anywhere on the best and thrive, FB on Dunstall, CHF on Carey, HB and midfield on Hird, Pert on him at FF. So many elite strings to his bow. I guess that’s why Dunstall rated him not only the best defender he’s seen, but a top 5 PLAYER overall too. Plugger rated SOS the best he played on too.

You’re entitled to your opinion otherwise of course, but stating that someone “does not belong here” is getting a bit ahead of yourself.

Sos would of made a great forward. Its a pity he didnt play their more.

 

[Monkey King]

Even matched up to Daicos

I didn’t know that. Circa 1990?

 

[Seeds]

Last 30 years absolutely he is, all time I agree he isn’t, I stated he had passed Buckley.

Ok he is probably in the top 20 but not in the top 10. These players were/are all better:
Ablett
Williams
Voss
Judd
Hird
Fyfe
Martin
Dangerfield
Mitchell
Robert Harvey.


By no means in the 10-15 group either.

Next 10 would include some of:
Platten, watson, matera, selwood, cousins, buckley, kelly, kouta, crawford, pendlebury, w.johnson, black, hocking, kemp, mcleod, jarman, riccuito, swan.

 

[Ricmel]

Last 30 years absolutely he is, all time I agree he isn’t, I stated he had passed Buckley.

Just because you stated it does not make it so!! "Hey guys, God jokers just announced that Collingwood is the greatest team ever" ......"oh right, that's that then"!!

On Pendelbury...he's in mix for top 30 of last 30 years but there is a hell of a lot of competition as pointed out by Seeds.

 

[nineteen eighty]

James Hird averaged 20 disposals, 6 marks and 1.4 goals per game.
He has 5 B&F's
5 x All Australian
2 Premierships
Norm Smith medal
Brownlow medal

He earns the right, as a player, to be considered one of the all time greats.


Martin may get there someday, but as it stands right now, he's not there just yet.

Nathan Buckley averages 24.6 disposals a game, 1.01 goals a game.

7 x All Australian
Norm Smith Medal
6 x B and F
Magarey Medal
Rising Star
Jack Oatey Medal
Alex Jesaulenko Medal

Robert Harvey has both covered as a pure mid:

Club

• 2x Brownlow Medal: 1997, 1998
• AFLPA MVP (Leigh Matthews Trophy): 1997
• 8x All-Australian team: 1992, 1994-1999, 2003
• 4x St Kilda Best & Fairest: 1992, 1994, 1997-1998
• Herald Sun Player of the Year Award: 1997
• Madden Medal: 2008
• 3x Pre-Season Premiership: 1996, 2004, 2008
• Michael Tuck Medal: 2004
• St Kilda Team of the Century

Representative

• 3x E. J. Whitten Medal

Hird was more than just a mid though as has already been covered. If I wanted an allrounder, Hird easily. If I wanted a pure mid, Harvey for me.

 

[Seeds]

Robert Harvey has both covered as a pure mid:

Club

• 2x Brownlow Medal: 1997, 1998
• AFLPA MVP (Leigh Matthews Trophy): 1997
• 8x All-Australian team: 1992, 1994-1999, 2003
• 4x St Kilda Best & Fairest: 1992, 1994, 1997-1998
• Herald Sun Player of the Year Award: 1997
• Madden Medal: 2008
• 3x Pre-Season Premiership: 1996, 2004, 2008
• Michael Tuck Medal: 2004
• St Kilda Team of the Century

Representative

• 3x E. J. Whitten Medal

Hird was more than just a mid though as has already been covered. If I wanted an allrounder, Hird easily. If I wanted a pure mid, Harvey for me.

People downgrade harvey because he played about 9 seasons after he peaked. But at his peak he is in the top handful of mids in the past 30 years. Easily in the top two mids of the nineties along with williams. Big gap to third.

 

[GodJokers]

Just because you stated it does not make it so!! "Hey guys, God jokers just announced that Collingwood is the greatest team ever" ......"oh right, that's that then"!!

On Pendelbury...he's in mix for top 30 of last 30 years but there is a hell of a lot of competition as pointed out by Seeds.

But I don’t think Collingwood are the greatest team ever, why are you making up quotes?

 

[Seeds]

Gary Wilson may not get the rover spot as the best ever but would comfortably sit on the half forward flank unmatched for that position.

Hodge and Judd need spots

Umatched? You get ablett senior played his best football at half forward flank. Had seasons kicking over 70 goals from the flank. Most wilson ever got was 46.

Hird, jezza and even franklin also played some amazing football on the half forward flank.

 

[Seeds]

If it’s wet Aker is easily in the convo as an all time great.
Some of his games were out of this world good. I appreciate a good wet weather specialist. Mind you he was damn good in the dry also.

Akermanis averages only 18 touches and 1.3 goals a game throughout his career with his best season only being 21 touches a game. An excellent player but he aint in this conversion.

 

[nineteen eighty]

People downgrade harvey because he played about 9 seasons after he peaked. But at his peak he is in the top handful of mids in the past 30 years. Easily in the top two mids of the nineties along with williams. Big gap to third.

Man after my own heart. You would appreciate this https://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-05/versus-williams-v-harvey

 

[Veer Right]

Umatched? You get ablett senior played his best football at half forward flank. Had seasons kicking over 70 goals from the flank. Most wilson ever got was 46.

Hird, jezza and even franklin also played some amazing football on the half forward flank.

Playing from the middle. /end discussion

 

[Wallaby]

Great players....but top 20 of all time? I didn't see Dyer but he was crash and bash man a la Mumford, not sure he was the most skilful footballer.

Nicholls - I saw, very limited player was more a great leader than a great player, I mean he average 12 disposals and 17 hit outs a game, lots of ruckman ahead of him. Doull...just too many great defenders ahead of him. I mean you are talking about Top 20. Is Bruce Doull one of the top 20 players of all time? He simply isn't. Cult figure, fan favourite yes.

John Nicholls won the John Nicholls medal 5 times. He is the last captain-coach to win a flag. He was first choice ruck for Victoria basically from 1960-1970. He is probably the most influential player on the field I have seen.
Norm Smith said Jack Dyer was the greatest player he had seen. So did plenty of others. Not Skillful? After he slowed down a bit and Bill Morris took over first ruck for Richmond, Dyer played as permanent forward and kicked 46, 64 and 45 goals in his last 3 seasons (although his best goal-kicking performance was 9 goals in the 1944 Prelim). Also - he invented the drop punt.
Bruce Doull - I presume you never saw him play. I'm a Richmond fan - I hate Bruce Doull! - and he was one of the greatest players I have seen - defender or otherwise.

 

[Seeds]

Playing from the middle. /end discussion

So he wasnt a half forward flanker. Yet apparently is umatched in that position.

 

[Seeds]

John Nicholls won the John Nicholls medal 5 times. He is the last captain-coach to win a flag. He was first choice ruck for Victoria basically from 1960-1970. He is probably the most influential player on the field I have seen.
Norm Smith said Jack Dyer was the greatest player he had seen. So did plenty of others. Not Skillful? After he slowed down a bit and Bill Morris took over first ruck for Richmond, Dyer played as permanent forward and kicked 46, 64 and 45 goals in his last 3 seasons (although his best goal-kicking performance was 9 goals in the 1944 Prelim). Also - he invented the drop punt.
Bruce Doull - I presume you never saw him play. I'm a Richmond fan - I hate Bruce Doull! - and he was one of the greatest players I have seen - defender or otherwise.

John nicholls wasnt even the best ruckman of his era. Farmer was.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Major asterisk next to dusty for his underworld links and off field substance issues.
Also winning norm Smith against the worst grand finalist in 100 years doesn't help his case.
Buckley and hird streets ahead

Yeah lucky that Hird doesn't have any links to underworld figures or PED traffickers. His history is squeaky clean

 

[DAlembert]

John nicholls wasnt even the best ruckman of his era. Farmer was.

Farmer/Nicholls match ups were much anticipated events. From a VFL perspective I would put Nicholls in front. From a Football perspective overall including Farmers WA performances I think Farmer outshines Nicholls by a fair margin. But the VFL was the Premier Competition in Australia.

 

[DAlembert]

People downgrade harvey because he played about 9 seasons after he peaked. But at his peak he is in the top handful of mids in the past 30 years. Easily in the top two mids of the nineties along with williams. Big gap to third.

People downgrade Harvey because he was not a real penetrating kick and kicked the ball short a lot of the time and was less damaging than say a Buckley who was a more penetrating kick and thus more effective. Williams in and under work and great handpassing skills on both sides of the body make Williams clearly better than Harvey who was very much one sided.