Toast How can this Melbourne side be stopped?

[demondavey]

Back to Back is incredibly hard that's why I was so happy when we did it in 19-20.

I think Melbourne have a great midfield but don't think had the quality forward or backine we had.

I disagree on the backline. May, Lever are A grade, as is Salem when fit. Petty improved out of sight this year. The forward line however is awful. Brown has dropped away significantly this year and we’ve lacked enough pressure to let opposition walk the ball out of the forward line. Spargo, ANB, Pickett all didn’t do enough overall. Our goal scoring is problematic. So inconsistent.

I was shocked to see how easily Brown went to ground this year, rag rolled so easily but also I get frustrated when our midfield delivers the ball in a scrappy and ceiling high fashion, to a pocket. Richmond go through Lynch and Riewoldt. Geelong, Hawkins and Cameron. I simply think that if we create a forward entry style of kicking to Brown on the lead (his strength) things would probably be better. McDonald being injured hurt.

Also, we didn’t debut Van Rooyen or give Joel Smith a go to forward after good VFL form. Why? Lots of issues.

Gawn was definitely injured, either that or the last fortnight we are seeing old Father Time catching up with him.

I think the best thing was us going out like that. It’s a pretty brutal realisation that you’re just not up to it with the same group as that that won a flag, virtually. So many things for everyone to reflect on and rectify, it really is a wake up call as to where we are a year later after winning a GF by 12 goals in probably the most dominant fashion I’ve seen (or one of them).

Take it on the chin, get it sorted, get back next year a lot better.

 

[nineteen eighty]

I disagree on the backline. May, Lever are A grade, as is Salem when fit. Petty improved out of sight this year. The forward line however is awful. Brown has dropped away significantly this year and we’ve lacked enough pressure to let opposition walk the ball out of the forward line. Spargo, ANB, Pickett all didn’t do enough overall. Our goal scoring is problematic. So inconsistent.

I was shocked to see how easily Brown went to ground this year, rag rolled so easily but also I get frustrated when our midfield delivers the ball in a scrappy and ceiling high fashion, to a pocket. Richmond go through Lynch and Riewoldt. Geelong, Hawkins and Cameron. I simply think that if we create a forward entry style of kicking to Brown on the lead (his strength) things would probably be better. McDonald being injured hurt.

...

And that's why I'm dumbstruck that your club is going after Grundy. Gawn is the best ruck in the competition and is being asked to sacrifice his game to play as a KF (of which he is serviceable at best) to get Grundy in as a ruck. There may not be any options re: bringing in KF's this year but I just don't understand the thinking of turning Gawn from an elite ruck to an ok KF. It's just madness...imo.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Agree, it’s incredibly difficult to win one, let alone multiple. It’s why the teams that do (Brisbane, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong) are so venerated

But only the teams that played in those times. The teams playing for those clubs at present are quite different. And so is football in general. It's always changing, for better or worse. That's why people who say, we beat them last year so we should be able to beat them this year, are likely to be wrong

 

[demondavey]

And that's why I'm dumbstruck that your club is going after Grundy. Gawn is the best ruck in the competition and is being asked to sacrifice his game to play as a KF (of which he is serviceable at best) to get Grundy in as a ruck. There may not be any options re: bringing in KF's this year but I just don't understand the thinking of turning Gawn from an elite ruck to an ok KF. It's just madness...imo.

You and me are both dumbstruck. I read that Geelong is into Oliver Henry, who is exactly what we need. Why are Geelong ahead of the pack? Because his brother plays there? Melbourne should be working on him like all hell given we need a mobile forward.

Grundy coming over would be a bust. Gawn just isn’t a good forward, and I don’t think between him and Grundy they’ll want to be spending a lot of time up forward.

 

[nineteen eighty]

You and me are both dumbstruck. I read that Geelong is into Oliver Henry, who is exactly what we need. Why are Geelong ahead of the pack? Because his brother plays there? Melbourne should be working on him like all hell given we need a mobile forward.

Grundy coming over would be a bust. Gawn just isn’t a good forward, and I don’t think between him and Grundy they’ll want to be spending a lot of time up forward.

Reminds me of Carlton going and getting themselves Williams and Saad...both at top dollar. I would normally something along the lines of "smarter minds than mine" but not sure that applies in the Grundy to Melbourne situation.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Let Grundy and his mega contract stay at the Pies, why would any other contending team give them a salary cap break?

Dees have lost their way with this thinking.

 

[BobHawk]

Melbourne has t2 to 3 of the best midfielders in the comp and in Lever and May, two of the best defenders. Even though their forward line is less than adequate, they needed to be better with all the talent they have. The teams in this final series are all very close in ability. Except for Melbourne. They fell in a hole after mid-season and could not find a way out. Much of that has to reflect on the coaching. They had more than ample time to adjust and plug obvious holes. They didn't. They lacked structure and ability to control the ball when the games were tight but instead continued to play the energy driven chaos and momentum game they play well against weaker teams because they are very talented. Doesn't work in finals. That simply means it all goes back to the coaching. I imagine there are some very serious questions about that happening now.

 

[Sector 7G]

You already have one. JVR.

The great hope is an undersized 19yr old. Will be doing well if he plays 10 games next year and gets 10 possessions and a goal a game.

 

[Sector 7G]

Put Harry McKay in this side and they go from contenders to likely dynasty

Tigers won 2 extra cups by bringing in Lynch

 

[GastevsBeard]

Tigers won 2 extra cups by bringing in Lynch

we did

2019 he kept our season hanging by a thread (top 4, possibly top 8 gone had we lost to port in port) then put Geelong away in the PF

 

[North park]

One player who was very quiet on Friday night was Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

23

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

- only 9 possessions and no impact on the scoreboard or in ruck contests.

Couldn't help but notice his lack of emotion coming off the ground at the end of the game. It seemed that he had already checked out from the Dees and is ready to move on to Freo.

 

[demondavey]

Let Grundy and his mega contract stay at the Pies, why would any other contending team give them a salary cap break?

Dees have lost their way with this thinking.

Exactly. And that’s a great comment. We are freeing up Collingwood to add someone when they are already ahead of us this year and have a list to challenge again for 2023.

Melbourne is just thinking that we are going to lose Jackson so let’s get Grundy, well if we somehow improve to a point where a flag is in contention I’ll eat my words, but can Grundy play forward convincingly?

PieLebo87

Keen to know.

 

[demondavey]

One player who was very quiet on Friday night was Luke Jackson - only 9 possessions and no impact on the scoreboard or in ruck contests.

Couldn't help but notice his lack of emotion coming off the ground at the end of the game. It seemed that he had already checked out from the Dees and is ready to move on to Freo.

He checked out months ago. Hasn’t been great this year at all.

 

[demondavey]

Reminds me of Carlton going and getting themselves Williams and Saad...both at top dollar. I would normally something along the lines of "smarter minds than mine" but not sure that applies in the Grundy to Melbourne situation.

It’s honestly pissed me off that Henry is getting chased by, surprise surprise, Geelong. Their season isn’t even done and are already looking to bolster their playing list.

Why aren’t we doing this?

 

[gouki88]

Exactly. And that’s a great comment. We are freeing up Collingwood to add someone when they are already ahead of us this year and have a list to challenge again for 2023.

Melbourne is just thinking that we are going to lose Jackson so let’s get Grundy, well if we somehow improve to a point where a flag is in contention I’ll eat my words, but can Grundy play forward convincingly?

PieLebo87

Keen to know.

Grundy cannot really play forward for long periods. He is a weak contested mark. He kicked a few goals last season, which was promising, but from memory it was mostly through running off his opponent because he has a huge tank.

 

[demondavey]

Grundy cannot really play forward for long periods. He is a weak contested mark. He kicked a few goals last season, which was promising, but from memory it was mostly through running off his opponent because he has a huge tank.

So basically a fit Tom McDonald will be a better option at half the cost

 

[PieLebo87]

Exactly. And that’s a great comment. We are freeing up Collingwood to add someone when they are already ahead of us this year and have a list to challenge again for 2023.

But you’re not simply freeing up Collingwood’s cap space, you’re getting a quality player in return.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like we’re going to be putting that cap space to great use if we’re simply swapping out Grundy for McStay. Hopefully I’m eating my words though.

Melbourne is just thinking that we are going to lose Jackson so let’s get Grundy, well if we somehow improve to a point where a flag is in contention I’ll eat my words, but can Grundy play forward convincingly?

PieLebo87

Keen to know.

I honestly have never recalled him playing infront of the play in his time at Collingwood to know. It’s hard to call whether he can play forward or not without someone actually putting it to play.

The blight on his game is he isn’t as strong aerially as other ruckmen. He doesn’t take a big pack grab often, although he isn’t incapable of taking contested marks. He also isn’t the fastest, so wouldn’t be using him as a lead up forward.

His best return in a game is 2 goals, and has had double digit goal scoring seasons on the back of playing as a ruckman who floats forward.

I can’t imagine the Demons intend on using him anywhere other than as a ruckman tbh. You’ll have more success with Gawn as the forward if they intend on splitting the two between ruck/forward.

 

[Toump Ass]

I reckon taking Grundy is a shit idea but I also thought taking Jackson was a shit idea and it clearly wasn't. We've got a pretty good track record with trades in recent years: Langdon, May, Lever, all very good moves, so I'll back the list manager and Legend Simon Goodwin

Simon Goodwin

Age

48

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

for now

 

[nineteen eighty]

I'm an ex ruck and pay close attention to the big fellas across the comp. I can comfortably say that Grundy is a ruck...only. He could on occasion pinch hit as a forward but he simply doesn't have the game for it. He and Gawn won't be out marked in the forward line but they simply don't have the agility to be able to play between them as a permanent KF. I simply don't see them as the answer to your forward line issues.

If Grundy makes his way to Melbourne, you'll be carrying 2 rucks (on big coin) and still have not solved your forward line issues.

IMO.

 

[PieLebo87]

I'm an ex ruck and pay close attention to the big fellas across the comp. I can comfortably say that Grundy is a ruck...only. He could on occasion pinch hit as a forward but he simply doesn't have the game for it. He and Gawn won't be out marked in the forward line but they simply don't have the agility to be able to play between them as a permanent KF. I simply don't see them as the answer to your forward line issues.

If Grundy makes his way to Melbourne, you'll be carrying 2 rucks (on big coin) and still have not solved your forward line issues.

IMO.

This stood out to me because even this is generous IMO.

These two are more often the third men up which makes their marking look more spectacular but when they’re playing forward one out vs a defender, they’ll be dealing with the third man up to spoil or mark across the front.

Gawn is much more likely to have success as a marking target forward, but I just can’t see Grundy having a great impact in that role.

I also don’t see what Melbourne have planned. He’s much more suitable at a Hawthorn as the Big Boy replacement or as an upgrade on Stanley at the Cats. I can’t figure out Melbourne’s angle.

 

[WillHayward]

The great hope is an undersized 19yr old. Will be doing well if he plays 10 games next year and gets 10 possessions and a goal a game.

You make a very good point .

Weideman was the great hope at one stage.

So it remains a glaring problem.

 

[WillHayward]

Demons should bring in Meek. Not Grundy.

Then spend their money and draft capital (from Jackson) on a good key fwd.

They really stuffed up signing Brown to such a long deal. Big big mistake. Will.cost them.

 

[demondavey]

This stood out to me because even this is generous IMO.

These two are more often the third men up which makes their marking look more spectacular but when they’re playing forward one out vs a defender, they’ll be dealing with the third man up to spoil or mark across the front.

Gawn is much more likely to have success as a marking target forward, but I just can’t see Grundy having a great impact in that role.

I also don’t see what Melbourne have planned. He’s much more suitable at a Hawthorn as the Big Boy replacement or as an upgrade on Stanley at the Cats. I can’t figure out Melbourne’s angle.

We are covering the Jackson hole. Which is really odd as Jackson is 20 and basically a tall midfielder without a banged up body.

 

[demondavey]

Demons should bring in Meek. Not Grundy.

Then spend their money and draft capital (from Jackson) on a good key fwd.

They really stuffed up signing Brown to such a long deal. Big big mistake. Will.cost them.

We just won’t play brown next year. We did get a great finals performance from him. Last year.

 

[PieLebo87]

We are covering the Jackson hole. Which is really odd as Jackson is 20 and basically a tall midfielder without a banged up body.

You’re not exactly short of quality midfielders though, and it’s not as they’re old either. Not sure. I’m sure Richo and Goodwin have something planned none of us know.