Toast How can this Melbourne side be stopped?

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Gysberts2Bate said:
Which teams have good KPF depth?
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Geelong & West Coast maybe

For a 1-2 combo Brown & McDonald are mid table

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00Stinger said:
Geelong & West Coast maybe

For a 1-2 combo Brown & McDonald are mid table

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Yeah they’re average, but KPF quality is pretty inconsequential in the scheme of things.
 
Gysberts2Bate said:
Yeah they’re average, but KPF quality is pretty inconsequential in the scheme of things.
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It's not inconsequential. You can still win if the rest of your team is elite. Just like you can also succeed without only average (or shit) KPDs. Look at the dogs, they were leading for most of the grand final and their KPDs are a joke.
 

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Juddernaut08 said:
It's not inconsequential. You can still win if the rest of your team is elite. Just like you can also succeed without only average (or sh*t) KPDs. Look at the dogs, they were leading for most of the grand final and their KPDs are a joke.
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The Bulldogs had the lead for 30 minutes because we couldn’t kick straight earlier in the game. It seems your appreciation of the deep aspects of footy doesn’t include an understanding for how KPFs are no longer the key component of forward line quality
 
Gysberts2Bate said:
The Bulldogs had the lead for 30 minutes because we couldn’t kick straight earlier in the game. It seems your appreciation of the deep aspects of footy doesn’t include an understanding for how KPFs are no longer the key component of forward line quality
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You're selling the dogs short here. They still made the grand final right? Would the 100-7 run still happen if they had a competent ruckman (a non-injured Martin)?

Did the other 16 teams also 'not kick straight'?

You don't have to be the best in every area to win the flag. Every team has holes.
 
Juddernaut08 said:
You're selling the dogs short here. They still made the grand final right? Did the other 16 teams also 'not kick straight'?

You don't have to be the best in every area to win the flag. Every team has holes.
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You’re the one who brought up some arbitrary measure of the Bulldogs leading for most of the game, which wasn’t even true, as though it meant something about the importance of key defenders. I’m not selling them short, the reality of the match was that we could barely kick straight for 2.5 quarters and then when we did we rolled them. They were well off winning the game even though they were convinced their midfield and forward line were better than ours and they had literally zero way to stop the glut of scoring. Funnily enough our backline played pretty poorly on GF day
 
Juddernaut08 said:
Thats the Cam Mooney effect.

Your forwardline is not one of the best in the league. But thats how good the rest of the team is.
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Ben Brown came 2nd in the Coleman medal twice at the Kangas. He’s coming off injury. Hardly think Cam Mooney is comparable.
 
Gysberts2Bate said:
You’re the one who brought up some arbitrary measure of the Bulldogs leading for most of the game, which wasn’t even true, as though it meant something about the importance of key defenders. I’m not selling them short, the reality of the match was that we could barely kick straight for 2.5 quarters and then when we did we rolled them. They were well off winning the game even though they were convinced their midfield and forward line were better than ours and they had literally zero way to stop the glut of scoring. Funnily enough our backline played pretty poorly on GF day
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The point that you're missing is that KPFs are not some special class of player that are 'inconsequential'. They are important, but you can still succeed without elite ones.

Just like the dogs can succeed (being the 2nd best team over the course of the season) without decent KPDs. It doesn't make the KPDs inconsequential, it's just that their midfield is so strong and deep that it is able to overcome their definecies.
 
Blackas87 said:
Ben Brown came 2nd in the Coleman medal twice at the Kangas. He’s coming off injury. Hardly think Cam Mooney is comparable.
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He was a very different player (being shoved out by the Roos) by the end of his tenure at the Roos, but I see your point.

I mean no disrespect to the Dees, and not sure why there's such offence at the notion that the forwards were made to look a lot better because the rest of the team is ridiculously good.

I see them dominating for at least another 2 seasons, with Doggies best positioned. I'll leave the rest of the jerkfest to you boys. Enjoy!
 
Juddernaut08 said:
The point that you're missing is that KPFs are not some special class of player that are 'inconsequential'. They are important, but you can still succeed without elite ones.

Just like the dogs can succeed (being the 2nd best team over the course of the season) without decent KPDs. It doesn't make the KPDs inconsequential, it's just that their midfield is so strong and deep that it is able to overcome their definecies.
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No the point is that you don’t need strong KPFs to have a strong forward line, but you can’t have a strong backline without strong KPDs (especially intercept markers). You can minimise opposition scoring through the middle of the ground however
 
markm106 said:
Melbourne’s forward line looked a whole lot better once Broen came in and got going. He’s not going to kick bags of 8. But he’ll bring the ball to ground almost every time which was previously not his go. We also have elite forward pressure. When we got going after the Hawks draw we were pretty bloody good up forward. But it’s a team effort there.
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Agree. I think there are 2 Dees forward lines that we're talking about. There's the forward line they had up until the last month'ish which won them games but wasn't world beating. Then there's the forward line they took into the finals which was excellent. They improved and hence won the flag. The 1st version I think is no longer relevant for discussion.
 

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Interesting Melbourne finished the year ranked 17th for disposal efficiency but 1st for inside 50 efficiency.

Disposal efficiency
549F5CCE-6637-4FF0-AEE8-5672E2C8694C.jpeg

Inside 50 efficiency
A19B1B89-6663-46A5-B9AA-574A4F93ACD6.jpeg
 
Juddernaut08 said:
How bad is Carlton's defense to still be so sh*t given our great efficiency and attacking numbers.
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Well yeah Carlton ranked 17th for points against this year.

Good key forwards like Ben Brown and McKay can help lead good forward lines.

Carlton’s problem was they ranked 11th for inside 50’s. Simply don’t get the ball up there enough but made good on their opportunities though.
 
Most efficient and most stingy inside 50 at each end. That’s system AND quality

We were also the only top 8 side in the bottom half for scoring accuracy. Fix that up and we’ll be much more dominant
 
It’s more remarkable when you consider that we were almost the worst in either stat from 2017-2019, particularly in games v the top sides.
 
Reality is just about any coach or footy expert will tell you a good defence will win a premiership over a good attack. I’d have to do the maths again but I believe Melbourne conceded a fair few less scoring shots than most other if not all teams. Also our accuracy was poor at times which gave us a lower score overall than other teams. The great thing about our forward line is we don’t rely on one player to kick goals.
 
Jibroni said:
We had the least amount of injuries and only used about 27 players all season. It pays to be super fit.
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Fit and young. Just need to keep the older guys like May, Max and Brown healthy for August/September
 
I mean, they didn't go undefeated during the season so its not like they are invincible. Maybe had an amazing run with injuries and their main opposition in finals didn't.
On top of that, they are now the "hunted". Every club will be studying Melbournes finals series because their gameplan isn't anything new, but they had the squad to make total use of the 6-6-6 rule.
So I imagine clubs going forward would focus on what personnel can they use to mitigate Gawn/Petracca/Oliver/May/Lever over the course of a game or what tweaks they can make to their gameplan to minimize the damage.
With guys like Gawn and Petracca there isn't a lot you can do unless you are a club like Collingwood who have a great ruck, or a team like Port who have excellent midfielders.

But the teams that did well against Melbourne exploited May and Levers positioning.
 

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Toast How can this Melbourne side be stopped?

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