Roast How diabolical is our midfield?

[maxlilly]

This is a really telling sign,

You go back over the years lots of players and ex-players say that when the pressures on and teams going poorly, they often resort to going into 'self preservation' mode and simply looking at their own game and doing enough to survive week to week.

There's no or little mention of team, and broader cohesion etc.

It's really the beginning of the end for Nicks and a few others.

That's what it is starting to look like, self preservation.
Every man for himself.
Even that interview by VB was, I'm doing my job fine, we are getting plenty of clearances, it doesn't matter how we dispose of the footy afterwards

 

[GreyCrow]

VB has really fed them all the Kool Aid hasn't he...

"All good guys, your playing your roles, all getting 25+ touches. Other stats are just misleading like metres gained etc, ignore those boys... Job done"

The Data Says

 

[FullyBigKPro]

The Data Says

We may as well get a few laptops and AI to coach on game days....

 

[GreyCrow]

We may as well get a few laptops and AI to coach on game days....

With the lack of emotion and flair I think we already do

 

[CryptoCrow]

The problem with Rachele is he is lost. He never developed his forward craft and was relying on his talent and now he is basically thrown in position away from goal. Yes he will be a good, clever player around goal. I see a lot of Robbie Gray in him. But he needs to develop his game first and this is where Nicks is not doing a good job. The constant movement of players to plug defensive gaps during games and the slow movement of the ball is not developing our young players.

Really good players find their way to the football, end of story

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That's what it is starting to look like, self preservation.
Every man for himself.
Even that interview by VB was, I'm doing my job fine, we are getting plenty of clearances, it doesn't matter how we dispose of the footy afterwards

Preservation mode is the beginning of the end.

Imo we don't have a stronger enough leader to get them to see the bigger picture of playing quick team football.

 

[maxlilly]

Preservation mode is the beginning of the end.

Imo we don't have a stronger enough leader to get them to see the bigger picture of playing quick team football.

It's obvious to everyone that our ball movement is too slow, especially compared to what we did last year.
Surely there is someone in the coaching ranks that needs to say, how about we go back to last years game plan and see if we can play on and give our forwards more of an opportunity one out

 

[SAweagle]

No. I don’t seek to belittle or hound individuals. You point out one’s errors and then move on. After all, we all make errors of judgement from time to time.

And I bear no malice or hatred towards other posters. In saying that tho, I believe some posters are fools but that is a total different thing.

a more holier than thou post you will never see on bigfooty

jesus christ ova here

 

[DJ75]

That's what it is starting to look like, self preservation.
Every man for himself.
Even that interview by VB was, I'm doing my job fine, we are getting plenty of clearances, it doesn't matter how we dispose of the footy afterwards

The defence is consistently "the numbers are good". And they are ok. Sure.
The reality is that we are getting smashed across the ground though. By everyone. So the 'numbers' are irrelevant.
As has been the case for a long time (Greenwood made a point of this when he left), we are obsessed with raw numbers and have little to no interest as to what those numbers translate in. (Hint: It's not goals)
It's what you do when you are too dumb to see beyond the numbers. And our coaches are dumb. I'm convinced of it.

 

[Sanders]

a more holier than thou post you will never see on bigfooty

jesus christ ova here

Even more funny who it’s from

 

[maxlilly]

The defence is consistently "the numbers are good". And they are ok. Sure.
The reality is that we are getting smashed across the ground though. By everyone. So the 'numbers' are irrelevant.
As has been the case for a long time (Greenwood made a point of this when he left), we are obsessed with raw numbers and have little to no interest as to what those numbers translate in. (Hint: It's not goals)
It's what you do when you are too dumb to see beyond the numbers. And our coaches are dumb. I'm convinced of it.

They cant see the forest for the trees
The numbers they should be concerned about are the ones up on the scoreboard

 

[relapse]

The Data Says

I've thought this for a while that Nicks coaches via Champion Data analytics, even when he is on the boundary line you'll often see him huddled over looking at laptops (clearly looking at stats)

Nicks has mentioned before that "we're looking at all the data trying to work out how to get better", how about just opening your eyes and actually watching the game?

 

[GreyCrow]

I've thought this for a while that Nicks coaches via Champion Data analytics, even when he is on the boundary line you'll often see him huddled over looking at laptops (clearly looking at stats)

Nicks has mentioned before that "we're looking at all the data trying to work out how to get better", how about just opening your eyes and actually watching the game?

We even have some posters who used to sprout stats as if they meant anything

Some of us oldies use '' eye test '' as a phrase to imply we dont think the data matches

25 kicks good
18 to packs
7 to Stewart

Means the data is flawed and what we see with our eyes is a breakdown in what the player is trying to achieve. Why is he kicking down the line or to a pack contest? Is it something I said to them or are they panicking and need some clarity

 

[MarcusP2]

There was one against Geelong where we got a fast break at half back.

Kick went to Laird on the wing. Marked it on the eastern side of the centre square. Held onto it for ages trying to work out which option to take then eventually chipped sideways to Crouch near the boundary.

Crouch held onto it for ages before finally going backwards

And this was a fast break situation with space everywhere

When there's any sort of congestion or pressure they're even worse.

Without looking at it I would also presume there was nobody forward of the ball for him to kick to for 'defence' reasons, and as Laird can't run with the ball either we're stuck waiting for everyone to get back. While Geelong does the same.

Every aspect of the team stinks right now, coaching on down.

 

[Pugsley]

a more holier than thou post you will never see on bigfooty

jesus christ ova here

I just scrolled on.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Without looking at it I would also presume there was nobody forward of the ball for him to kick to for 'defence' reasons, and as Laird can't run with the ball either we're stuck waiting for everyone to get back. While Geelong does the same.

Every aspect of the team stinks right now, coaching on down.

Someone made the point that the kicking limitations of some of our team really shrinks the field

Crouch and Laird in particular but also Keays, McHenry, Butts, Berry, ROB are all shallow kicks. Dinky little pitching wedges. The defence doesn't need to spread out to stop the zone clearing long ball, or the fast diagonal into the corridor. Congestion reigns supreme.

 

[Slippery Pete]

And I bear no malice or hatred towards other posters.

Even me?

 

[Slippery Pete]

The prime movers through the years.

McDermott McGuiness A Jarman
Ricciuto McLeod Goodwin Edwards
Thompson Dangerfield Sloane
Dangerfield Sloane B Crouch M Crouch
Sloane B Couch M Crouch Gibbs
M Crouch Sloane Laird Keays (lol)
M Crouch Laird Dawson (Soligo?)

It’s almost as though we gave up on it after Dangerfield bailed.

Only one of those lines is any good

 

[Slippery Pete]

I've thought this for a while that Nicks coaches via Champion Data analytics, even when he is on the boundary line you'll often see him huddled over looking at laptops (clearly looking at stats)

Nicks has mentioned before that "we're looking at all the data trying to work out how to get better", how about just opening your eyes and actually watching the game?

Very typical of a coach in 2024.

For the problems he’s got, he’s not going to find the answers in the data.

 

[Scorpus]

I've thought this for a while that Nicks coaches via Champion Data analytics, even when he is on the boundary line you'll often see him huddled over looking at laptops (clearly looking at stats)

Nicks has mentioned before that "we're looking at all the data trying to work out how to get better", how about just opening your eyes and actually watching the game?

How do we know it's Champion Data and not just the AFL.com.au stats page?

 

[relapse]

Very typical of a coach in 2024.

For the problems he’s got, he’s not going to find the answers in the data.

I honestly believe that Nicks has heard some stat once that was something along the lines of sides that go +10 in contested possessions, +5 in tackles and +5 in centre clearances win 70% of games so he literally believes that's what you need to do as a coach to win.

So he loads up numbers around the ball and as long as they're hitting those numbers he thinks they'll win 7 out of 10 games.

I've heard no footy smarts at all from Nicks other than him babble on about data and numbers.

 

[relapse]

How do we know it's Champion Data and not just the AFL.com.au stats page?

They're one in the same as far as I know

Pretty sure that Champion Data are the official statisticians for the AFL and provide all the live stats and data to the AFL and coaches etc on matchdays.

 

[Doctor B]

Someone made the point that the kicking limitations of some of our team really shrinks the field

Crouch and Laird in particular but also Keays, McHenry, Butts, Berry, ROB are all shallow kicks. Dinky little pitching wedges. The defence doesn't need to spread out to stop the zone clearing long ball, or the fast diagonal into the corridor. Congestion reigns supreme.

I haven't seen too many fast diagonal kicks this year, we're not using the angles, just running straight lanes or switching slowly at right angles or backwards.

When we predictably kick it long down the boundary line, we make it so easy for the opposition to structure up and strangle our movement, create a turnover and counter attack

When you play with heightened fear/anxiety you stop taking risks.

Nicks needs to instill confidence by backing the team, not publicly blaming players for being out of form or fumbly, they will believe it, it will become their attribution theory to constant losses.

If you drop intensity only a few percent, the opportunity for social loafing across the team will increase and the slump will continue.

 

[relapse]

I haven't seen too many fast diagonal kicks this year, we're not using the angles, just running straight lanes or switching slowly at right angles or backwards.

When we predictably kick it long down the boundary line, we make it so easy for the opposition to structure up and strangle our movement, create a turnover and counter attack

When you play with heightened fear/anxiety you stop taking risks.

Nicks needs to instill confidence by backing the team, not publicly blaming players for being out of form or fumbly, they will believe it, it will become their attribution theory to constant losses.

If you drop intensity only a few percent, the opportunity for social loafing across the team will increase and the slump will continue.

I still think there's an issue with loading up so many players at the contest which leaves us short of numbers both behind and ahead of the ball.

Against Melbourne I saw us numerous times win the ball in the clearance, but have nothing to kick to because we were outnumbered up forward.

Craig McRae has changed the footy landscape tactically and a lot of coaches have followed while Nicks is still trying to load up numbers around the ball like Sydney circa 2005

 

[Scorpus]

They're one in the same as far as I know

Pretty sure that Champion Data are the official statisticians for the AFL and provide all the live stats and data to the AFL and coaches etc on matchdays.

I was more wondering whether Nicks is looking at the basic stats on the AFL website, or the advanced metrics that Champion Data can provide exclusively to clubs

Based on his coaching so far there is no indication he is aware of the advanced metrics