Roast How diabolical is our midfield?

[jackster83]

Interested to hear thoughts on people who think our midfield is diabolical but somehow manage to beat convincingly 2 of the top current 5 teams (Port, Saints), and lost to the current top team by 1 point?

Personally, I think our midfield is a bit too lightweight and likely easily being pushed around. This will improve naturally improve as the youngsters fill out their bodies. Another good midfield recruit and someone in the reserves making a big jump over the preseason, might just be the missing pieces.

St Kilda's midfield is crap. Too many one paced blokes with poor kicking skills.

Port, I think we caught them off guard with the Dawson move. Was easily our best performance this year.

Agree it would really help if someone in the two's can make the jump but I can't see it happening with our development record. Also worried that Soligo could follow Berry and Schoenberg and really drop off.

 

[John Who]

Just for clarity

Are you suggesting we dont need to draft midfielders for 3 years (maybe 1 more) until our already in place midfielders become heavyweights?

Or are you saying our midfield is stacked

I’m all for finding more elite midfielders whenever we can draft them. Though you’re missing the point - we can’t call the midfield group diabolical if just to talk about 1 game and forgetting about the 6 games just prior.

 

[John Who]

St Kilda's midfield is crap. Too many one paced blokes with poor kicking skills.

Port, I think we caught them off guard with the Dawson move. Was easily our best performance this year.

Agree it would really help if someone in the two's can make the jump but I can't see it happening with our development record. Also worried that Soligo could follow Berry and Schoenberg and really drop off.

If you take away the Showdown this year, Port has played exceptional football other than their game against the Pies. So the win against Port shows more about our improvement rather than Port being a crap side who was surprised by another crap side.

Regarding your concerns with our development record, it just feels different now with Nicks, Burgess and less amounts of injuries compared with the other years. With Soligo, Fog, Rankine, Rachele, Jones and Max, I can see a continual improvement. Out of Berry and Schoenberg, I’m hoping at least one can make the jump for next year.

To me, our young rejuvenated side is starting to have the feel of a Port side with the likes of Butters, Rozee, JHF, Bergman, Duursma and Jones. A good spread of solid, classy and versatile types who look likely 200+ gamers.

 

[Go the Guts]

Haven't done an analysis on the last 5+ years of premiership teams, but just off the top of my head, Dusty/Grimes/Prestia/Vlastuin , Petracca/Oliver/Viney, Dangerfield/Selwood....... we desperately need to draft or develop 2 superstars to match our talent-laden forward line if we are going to seriously challenge in the next 3-4 years.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Berry got dropped simply because he was out of form .. his calf injury went some way to cover that up

At best Berry is a 5/10 kick

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Just for clarity

Are you suggesting we dont need to draft midfielders for 3 years (maybe 1 more) until our already in place midfielders become heavyweights?

Or are you saying our midfield is stacked

It's unavoidable that we will Draft Midfielders .....next 3 years, we're required to have a min of 3 x draft picks each year .....that'll be 8+ players coming in, depending on rookie upgrades

You'd have to think, 3+ of that 8 will be midfielders

 

[AFC979810]

Interested to hear thoughts on people who think our midfield is diabolical but somehow manage to beat convincingly 2 of the top current 5 teams (Port, Saints), and lost to the current top team by 1 point?

I think its like everything on this forum. There are some who only see the good and those who shit on everything.

Our season so far has been segmented into 3 key periods for our midfield IMO.

Rounds 1-2 our midfield was putrid. Laird, Berry and Schoenberg were the mainstays with Rachele & Soligo part timers. This was absolutely god awful.

I think at our best our midfield was decent. This was the 4 rounds (3-6). Where Laird, Dawson and Rachele were the 3 mainstays with a smattering of Soligo. We then used Sloane very effectively in the last quarter when the game had slowed down.

From rounds 7-10 we have regressed again. Dawson has slowed down since the Collingwood game and has not been as effective. Whether that is fitness, opposition putting more time into him - we shall see. We have also lost Rachele as a midfielder - since Rd 6 when attended 69% of the CBA's he has gone to 21% to 17% to 9% to 5%. This has lead to us lean a lot more on Soligo & Sloane plus big time cameo's from Keays, Crouch & Berry. Its a much weaker group.

Personally, I think our midfield is a bit too lightweight and likely easily being pushed around. This will improve naturally improve as the youngsters fill out their bodies. Another good midfield recruit and someone in the reserves making a big jump over the preseason, might just be the missing pieces.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it.

We had Laird (75%), Dawson (75%), Sloane (25%), Keays (15%) were all soundly beaten. Bailey Smith who is the same draft year as Chayce Jones (20% CBA's) absolutely destroyed us. Our other midfielders (Berry 45%, Soligio 15% and Pedlar 25%) are hardly skinny lightweight rookies.

You need two elite midfielders WITH HURT FACTOR to really maximize the midfield group. Our only two with that ability are Dawson and Rachele. When opposition midfield groups don't have to worry about players like Laird, Sloane, Berry, etc getting the football it allows them to be far more attacking.

Its a completely different story if you have two dangerous midfielders like Dawson and Rachele in that midfield.

 

[Bearded Clam]

We’ve begun reverting back to keays and sloane with Laird.. I mean, how ****n long is it till the dirty crack whores running the club allow their addiction to slow, poorly skilled and cooked midfielders take over more and they bring Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

29

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

back!.

For the last 3-4 years the shittest midfield combo in the comp has been laird, keays, sloane and crouch..

It looked like the club had finally realised (about 2 years too late mind you) it was a shit midfield combo and changes were being locked in..

But no… the old habits have slowly started to creep back in..

Keays is dgrade levels of garbage and Sloane is cooked and far too slow with or without ball in hand..

How many times have we seen Sloane grab the ball and jam it straight on his boot lately.. he bends over and picks it up and doesnt even bother to stand upright before he chucks it on his boot!.. he’s so cooked and slow he knows if he doesnt make instant decisions he is gonna get caught out and smashed. Sloane only looks good injected into the midfield in the last quarter when the game, and the opposition, have slowed down a bit.

Laird is an accumulator.. who is half decent when the team is on top but is complete dogshit when the pressure is on.. another that when the pressure is on just reverts to the kick and hope option.

Will say I was happy we saw Jones thrown in the centre for a few in the second half against the dogs.. and he looked good too.

Just sucked that they waited till the game was over till they did it.. again, cause they delusionally believe guys like sloane and keays are better first options.

 

[AFC979810]

We’ve begun reverting back to keays and sloane with Laird.. I mean, how *n long is it till the dirty crack whores running the club allow their addiction to slow, poorly skilled and cooked midfielders take over more and they bring Matt Crouch back!.

For the last 3-4 years the shittest midfield combo in the comp has been laird, keays, sloane and crouch..

It looked like the club had finally realised (about 2 years too late mind you) it was a s**t midfield combo and changes were being locked in..

But no… the old habits have slowly started to creep back in..

Keays is dgrade levels of garbage and Sloane is cooked and far too slow with or without ball in hand..

How many times have we seen Sloane grab the ball and jam it straight on his boot lately.. he bends over and picks it up and doesnt even bother to stand upright before he chucks it on his boot!.. he’s so cooked and slow he knows if he doesnt make instant decisions he is gonna get caught out and smashed. Sloane only looks good injected into the midfield in the last quarter when the game, and the opposition, have slowed down a bit.

Laird is an accumulator.. who is half decent when the team is on top but is complete dogshit when the pressure is on.. another that when the pressure is on just reverts to the kick and hope option.

Will say I was happy we saw Jones thrown in the centre for a few in the second half against the dogs.. and he looked good too.

Just sucked that they waited till the game was over till they did it.. again, cause they delusionally believe guys like sloane and keays are better first options.

Is it a case of the young blokes not being fit enough? Rachele is completely cooked and Soligo has been up and down and isn't ready for full time midfield minutes.

There really isn't anyone else. The good thing about Sloane and Keays is they are useful elsewhere on the ground so rotating them through is important considering our lack of depth in the midfield.

Positive signs were that Jones and Pedlar got a crack last week.

 

[WeeBlake]

Laird is good, but he’s not that good. It’s unhealthy to have our midfield built around him. The day he becomes the third- or fourth-best mid will be the day we are truly contending.

 

[Danger in Texas]

We’ve begun reverting back to keays and sloane with Laird.. I mean, how *n long is it till the dirty crack whores running the club allow their addiction to slow, poorly skilled and cooked midfielders take over more and they bring Matt Crouch back!.

For the last 3-4 years the shittest midfield combo in the comp has been laird, keays, sloane and crouch..

It looked like the club had finally realised (about 2 years too late mind you) it was a s**t midfield combo and changes were being locked in..

But no… the old habits have slowly started to creep back in..

Keays is dgrade levels of garbage and Sloane is cooked and far too slow with or without ball in hand..

How many times have we seen Sloane grab the ball and jam it straight on his boot lately.. he bends over and picks it up and doesnt even bother to stand upright before he chucks it on his boot!.. he’s so cooked and slow he knows if he doesnt make instant decisions he is gonna get caught out and smashed. Sloane only looks good injected into the midfield in the last quarter when the game, and the opposition, have slowed down a bit.

Laird is an accumulator.. who is half decent when the team is on top but is complete dogshit when the pressure is on.. another that when the pressure is on just reverts to the kick and hope option.

Will say I was happy we saw Jones thrown in the centre for a few in the second half against the dogs.. and he looked good too.

Just sucked that they waited till the game was over till they did it.. again, cause they delusionally believe guys like sloane and keays are better first options.

I mean, can’t say we’ve been ‘reverting’ back to it when Keays only got 3 CBAs last week, and Dawson got the equal most of our mids

Sloane needs to be getting less, I agree with that. He needs to be played as a utility around the ground with small bursts on the ball (like 3 or 4 times a game, max)

As someone else said, Laird is good, but not THAT good, and is also a bit out of form. Needs to settle in to that ‘first link in the chain’ role, something he can’t really do if he’s in there with Sloane and/or Keays, or even Berry

The sooner Peds gets full-time midfield fitness, the better

 

[WeeBlake]

The sooner Peds gets full-time midfield fitness, the better

Or Rachele, he looks good when he’s getting a lot of the ball up the ground

 

[morris086]

Haven't done an analysis on the last 5+ years of premiership teams, but just off the top of my head, Dusty/Grimes/Prestia/Vlastuin , Petracca/Oliver/Viney, Dangerfield/Selwood....... we desperately need to draft or develop 2 superstars to match our talent-laden forward line if we are going to seriously challenge in the next 3-4 years.

That's the main worry I have with the list ATM, you could make a case that we should have had a peaking Dangerfield and an A grade B.Crouch when we contended 2016+ but I personally don't think we have those spots filled currently, maybe Pedlar covers one if he's past his injury concerns.

I know it's been driven into the ground but Philipou was a huge miss last year, everything seemed to align but we still missed out.

 

[John Who]

I think its like everything on this forum. There are some who only see the good and those who s**t on everything.

Our season so far has been segmented into 3 key periods for our midfield IMO.

Rounds 1-2 our midfield was putrid. Laird, Berry and Schoenberg were the mainstays with Rachele & Soligo part timers. This was absolutely god awful.

I think at our best our midfield was decent. This was the 4 rounds (3-6). Where Laird, Dawson and Rachele were the 3 mainstays with a smattering of Soligo. We then used Sloane very effectively in the last quarter when the game had slowed down.

From rounds 7-10 we have regressed again. Dawson has slowed down since the Collingwood game and has not been as effective. Whether that is fitness, opposition putting more time into him - we shall see. We have also lost Rachele as a midfielder - since Rd 6 when attended 69% of the CBA's he has gone to 21% to 17% to 9% to 5%. This has lead to us lean a lot more on Soligo & Sloane plus big time cameo's from Keays, Crouch & Berry. Its a much weaker group.



That has absolutely nothing to do with it.

We had Laird (75%), Dawson (75%), Sloane (25%), Keays (15%) were all soundly beaten. Bailey Smith who is the same draft year as Chayce Jones (20% CBA's) absolutely destroyed us. Our other midfielders (Berry 45%, Soligio 15% and Pedlar 25%) are hardly skinny lightweight rookies.

You need two elite midfielders WITH HURT FACTOR to really maximize the midfield group. Our only two with that ability are Dawson and Rachele. When opposition midfield groups don't have to worry about players like Laird, Sloane, Berry, etc getting the football it allows them to be far more attacking.

Its a completely different story if you have two dangerous midfielders like Dawson and Rachele in that midfield.

Our improved scoring shots per game is a reflection of better midfield forward entries, as well as better midfield transitioning from defense.

Yes, we got smacked against the Dogs, and to some lesser extent, smacked against the Cats. However, I’d argue that even in the first 2 rounds the midfield battle was close to break even, though this is more a gut instinct rather than any deep analysis. Against the Pies, our midfield looked better in the first 3 quarters and was horrendous in the last quarter.

If you take everything into account, I think the midfield has been doing a lot better this year, and one of the main reasons why we’re getting more recognition by commentators. The good news is that we still are tinkering with the right mix and should improve further with the young players bodies being more developed. Probably need another couple more strong bodied midfielders to get the right balance though.

 

[BunjiMac]

We just don't have the depth and variety required.

The AFL season is grueling and you need to run deep in the midfield to be to be successful.

I've heard the club many times say that our best is good enough. Sure I agree with this, but it's pointless if you can't maintain it through the season.

It is physically impossible to assume that your select key midfielders can play at their best for the entire season. It's just not possible, for any team. They need backup and the better the backup the better the success of the team.

We need more talent and greater variety AND a few bigger bodies to absorb the gruelling contest across the season.

 

[Samcro24]

That's the main worry I have with the list ATM, you could make a case that we should have had a peaking Dangerfield and an A grade B.Crouch when we contended 2016+ but I personally don't think we have those spots filled currently, maybe Pedlar covers one if he's past his injury concerns.

I know it's been driven into the ground but Philipou was a huge miss last year, everything seemed to align but we still missed out.

It’s a good point. There’s a similar vibe now to the Sando years where we assembled a small group of very good to elite talent, and didn’t show much urgency to add to it.

I’ve said it before but we build lists as though you’ve got 15 years to get them all together at once to win a flag.

 

[George Kramer]

Our improved scoring shots per game is a reflection of better midfield forward entries, as well as better midfield transitioning from defense.

Yes, we got smacked against the Dogs, and to some lesser extent, smacked against the Cats. However, I’d argue that even in the first 2 rounds the midfield battle was close to break even, though this is more a gut instinct rather than any deep analysis. Against the Pies, our midfield looked better in the first 3 quarters and was horrendous in the last quarter.

If you take everything into account, I think the midfield has been doing a lot better this year, and one of the main reasons why we’re getting more recognition by commentators. The good news is that we still are tinkering with the right mix and should improve further with the young players bodies being more developed. Probably need another couple more strong bodied midfielders to get the right balance though.

You mean when Soligo was subbed

 

[Crow_Magnon]

Is it a case of the young blokes not being fit enough? Rachele is completely cooked and Soligo has been up and down and isn't ready for full time midfield minutes.

There really isn't anyone else. The good thing about Sloane and Keays is they are useful elsewhere on the ground so rotating them through is important considering our lack of depth in the midfield.

Positive signs were that Jones and Pedlar got a crack last week.

I think you've nailed it here. In addition to this if I go back to the Cats game, they did a lot of illegal and borderline illegal blocking (I'd say anywhere other than Kardinia Pk they'd have been pinged on a number of occasions). They actually prevented us from getting a run at the ball and played to their strengths - which is that their stronger-bodied mids then got first use. Certainly Rachele has dropped off a bit, and Soligo is a bit up and down, so we've had to use Sloane more. I'd like to see more of Rankine in the midfield with Dawson, and Laird TBH. I'd also like to see us experiment with Hinge once he's back, especially if Worrell takes over his half back spot, as a chop out for Dawson (leaves a left footer in the mix - with good delivery). Pedlar also fits the bill of course, but not quite the same size physically as Hinge.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Laird is good, but he’s not that good. It’s unhealthy to have our midfield built around him. The day he becomes the third- or fourth-best mid will be the day we are truly contending.

This post wins the thread’s Salient Award.

I remember someone, many years back, comparing Laird to Tyson Edwards.

We all love Rory, he’s what football clubs are built on.

But he isn’t fit to tie Edwards’ bootlaces.

 

[beartoo]

Troll thread aged REALLY well.

On SM-A115F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Southerntakeover]

Troll thread aged REALLY well.

On SM-A115F using BigFooty.com mobile app

There were points in the game when we were minus 25 in inside 50s

 

[rocket18]

Troll thread aged REALLY well.

On SM-A115F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Our mids got towelled up again, lost clearances, lost centre clearances.

Inside 50s 47-66.

Our first halves we are playing one short in the midfield, yet again Sloane couldn't crack 5 possessions in the first half.

We need to give more midfield minutes to Soliglo, Pedlar and Rachelle. Nicks is having a hard letting go of the old guys.

 

[John Who]

Our mids got towelled up again, lost clearances, lost centre clearances.

Inside 50s 47-66.

Our first halves we are playing one short in the midfield, yet again Sloane couldn't crack 5 possessions in the first half.

We need to give more midfield minutes to Soliglo, Pedlar and Rachelle. Nicks is having a hard letting go of the old guys.

Surprised to see the inside 50s being that imbalanced. But I reckon even without winning the clearances, we worked harder in the midfield to chase and harass the opposition to make their forward entries more haphazard.

Certainly it didn’t look like the Brisbane midfield unit had much dominance over ours. Probably looked about even in the midfield, and we took our chances better up forward.

 

[WAG]

Wow.

And some people think we’re on the improve? It’s a fake improve, because this midfield isn’t going to get us anywhere near it.

No class, no speed. No one close to elite, and I don’t think anyone on the list who could even potentially get to elite. Laird? Will rack up 30 today with zero impact. So far from elite.

Shameful drafting and list management.

Hey Drum. Keen to hear your thoughts. Hope you're ok. xx

 

[StonesThrow]

Laird is A grade when in form (like last year) and played like it tonight. Probably around the bottom of the A grade lot, but still a very good mid. I reckon Dawson improves his midfield craft a lot and is our number 1 mid going forward, but Laird is a very good second/third mid in a good midfield. Hopefully we can acquire someone to join Dawson's calibre.

As for our midfield mix, I think we've largely got it right this year in terms of players. I think when we're getting spanked (which is still too often) it's more to do with structure and lack of top end players (not counting potential) who can just lift when required. Throwing Rachele in there won't do much at this stage of his career. Soligo also hasn't taken off as a pure mid this year either, but he's only a second year player. Pedlar definitely adds something though and they're starting to give him some time there.