Moved Thread how do you rate and compare the past two premiers?

[JackFlash]

So, you can shitcan our list, but when it comes back, you don't like it? Cry me a river....

And if your list assessment of the Tiges is so spot on, please tell me where I'm wrong with Geelong, I'd love to hear it!!

HuH? What shitcan? I have an opinion that i stated with hesitancy that the Tigers might be a 50/50 chance of missing the 8 and all hell breaks loose? I also said i can't leave them out of the 8 just yet, which means we all better wait and see if they repeat what the Dogs did in 2017? I stand by my assessment of their list, there is a mighty big gap between the A graders and the rest...as i stated - can Hardwick bring those players closer to the top line or not? Why are Tigers fans so "teeth-gnashingly defensive."? Is it a fear of returning to the dark days already? Unlike the more gracious Bulldogs supporters, Richmond supporters are finding it difficult to remain humble. Whilst not quite entering the dark side of arrogance i have encountered with "Hawks" fans, i fear Richmond supporters have loved things so much since the Grand Final that it has crossed the line from unchecked enthusiasm into unsettling, or even terrifying, obsession. The fall may do greater damage than i first thought?

 

[Roovolution]

Love this one. The tigers had quite a decent injury list in 2017. That's why we had the midget forward line. Why Townsend played. Why Nankervis was sole ruck. The Crows had a great injury run all year.

What is true is that the Tigers had their key players uninjured come finals. That was awesome. But it was a normal injury year - plenty of guys out, but covered well.

The Crows has a great injury run all year? Oh really. We lost two very good starters in the finals for a start......one classified as elite by champion data and the other has elite hands and is one of the best X factor players in the comp. But do go on......

 

[Lsta062]

No, that's not bullshit. That's what happened. It was a dream run. I was posting and reading the thread on the Richmond board, and even they thought it was a dream run. Three home games at the 'G, avoiding playing Geelong at Kardinia (even though the Cats finished higher), GWS with their barely 10,000 supporters (if that), and then Adelaide.

Since when do Geelong play finals at KP on a regular basis? Secondly, how was it a dream to have Geelong, who have beaten us something like 11 games straight (including games at the MCG)? They have also won more finals at the MCG than we have in the last 30 years.

Adelaide belted us by 76 in Round 6 last year and we were on a 3 game losing streak of 36 points (AO), 36 points (ES) and 76 points (AO). How was getting Adelaide, who gave us our biggest loss for the year, in the GF a dream outcome for us?

 

[Stan Judkins]

Best on the day or best all year? Two distinct concepts. Goes without saying best team on the day "usually wins"

I agree two distinct concepts.
But numerous times over the VFL/AFL history the best team in the H&A has fallen in the GF game
If the BEST team wins on H&A alone then, hello EPL!!!!!
Cheers everyone

 

[SumTingWong]

Is quite a drop in premiership standards from what we have seen primarily from 07-11.

We had three runner ups that won 20 games or more for the season which is insane when you think about it. ( Geelong 08, Collingwood 11, St Kilda 09)

Quite a few of the top four sides from those years would also easily take out the flag the past two years.

That's because the competition was less even and therefore easier for the top teams do have more wins. It's much harder to win a flag now. There's no disputing that.

 

[Stan Judkins]

The Dogs winning was the stuff of fairy tales
The Tigers winning is becoming the stuff of nightmares (mainly thanks to their fans)

That really hurts sir. you have wounded me!
cheers everyone

 

[Leon]

Two of the best premierships I’ve ever seen.

Dogs - Won from 7th, 2 interstate finals, played the 3 time reigning premiers and the season’s minor premiers. Brilliant finals performance.

Tigers - Came from 13th the previous season, completely overhauled their game plan and finished 3rd. 3 absolutely dominant finals - makes me laugh reading bitter posts about how they were lucky. They absolutely brutalized both Geelong and the Crows (GWS werent disgraced, just overwhelmed).


Three cheers for the Bulldogs and Tigers.

 

[bh90210fan]

The bulldogs accomplished something no one had ever done and are unlikely to see again.

The tigers just did what everyone else was doing - beating up on teams on their home ground.

No comparison.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Sorry but this is absolute horse raddish pal.

Premiership players who missed games through injury (probably missing a few too):

• Edwards
• Broad
• Riewoldt
• Caddy
• Prestia
• Houli

Other notable injuries:

• Griffiths - would have been an automatic selection if not for the concussion issues. The absence of a second key forward forced us to play 1 tall for most of the season which turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Despite that, Riewoldt missed a few games through injury and we were forced to play Nankervis (ruck) as the key forward.
• Hampson - perhaps dubious for opposition supporters but he had a career best season in 2016 (by his fairly meh standards) and probably went into 2017 as our best ruck. Nankervis was very raw (only 12 games when he crossed over IIRC) and Soldo was a project ruck. Hampson missing the season meant a lot was forced onto Nankervis perhaps earlier than he should and Soldo getting a few games too to help lessen the considerable workload on Nank. Thankfully both seemed to thrive on the responsibility.
• Conca - reinvented himself off the half back just like Ellis and was very good early in the season. Unfortunately, his injury woes struck again and he missed the rest of the season.

you missed Vlastuin NUFC....he missed a paltry 9 weeks. Apart from that, carry on.

 

[Dr Tigris]

The Crows has a great injury run all year? Oh really. We lost two very good starters in the finals for a start......one classified as elite by champion data and the other has elite hands and is one of the best X factor players in the comp. But do go on......

The Crows used a low number of players in 2017, so they had limited injuries through the year. As I said the Tigers had a great injury run in the finals. I was talking about the year not just finals. Yes Crows lost players for finals, and so did the Tigers. But perhaps the tiger losses were less important. You can't be sure of that. Both teams were close to full strength in the GF any way.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

The Tigers have Martin, Cotchin and Rance in the upper echelon, the rest are a bunch of good ordinary footballers.....
I stand by my assessment of their list, there is a mighty big gap between the A graders and the rest..

This is the tosh that is shitcanning the list...if you can't see that, I can't help you.

Why are Tigers fans so "teeth-gnashingly defensive."?

Because you are speaking utter shit when it comes to our list, pretty simple.

Martin, Cotch, Rance.....and then just good ords? It actually shoes you know nothing of the Richmond list, or very, very little.
You think we won a flag with 19 good ordinary footballers??? Oh dear.


Please explain, how me replying that your list is in a similar state talent wise, makes me defensive?

You have Ablett(34-35), Selwood, Danger.

Again, please explain who else you think are not good ordinary footballers may be bar Taylor.

I am asking what I feel is a very simple question. You didn't answer last time, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

HuH? What shitcan? I have an opinion that i stated with hesitancy that the Tigers might be a 50/50 chance of missing the 8 and all hell breaks loose? I also said i can't leave them out of the 8 just yet, which means we all better wait and see if they repeat what the Dogs did in 2017? I stand by my assessment of their list, there is a mighty big gap between the A graders and the rest...as i stated - can Hardwick bring those players closer to the top line or not? Why are Tigers fans so "teeth-gnashingly defensive."? Is it a fear of returning to the dark days already? Unlike the more gracious Bulldogs supporters, Richmond supporters are finding it difficult to remain humble. Whilst not quite entering the dark side of arrogance i have encountered with "Hawks" fans, i fear Richmond supporters have loved things so much since the Grand Final that it has crossed the line from unchecked enthusiasm into unsettling, or even terrifying, obsession. The fall may do greater damage than i first thought?

And there is this.....Champion data have our lists in very similar positions....you have 11 above avg/elite, we have 12.

You have 4 ranked elite, Tigers 3.

This was my point, our lists are similar, which is why I mimicked your frankly ludicrous assessment.

That's interesting....Geelong have Selwood, Danger and Gablett, the rest are a bunch of good ordinary footballers. Can Scott discover a couple more A graders so Geelong don't fall at the prelim stage again?
Cats fans won't agree, but I reckon the Cats are 50/50 to make the 8. I can't leave them out just yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if they came a complete cropper this year!

6. Geelong – Four elite players (Patrick Dangerfield, Gary Ablett, Sam Menegola and Daniel Menzel).

Note: The Cats have seven above average players.

8. Richmond – Three elite players (Shane Edwards, Dustin Martin and Alex Rance).

Note: The Tigers have nine above average players.



FMD....

 

[Roovolution]

The Crows used a low number of players in 2017, so they had limited injuries through the year. As I said the Tigers had a great injury run in the finals. I was talking about the year not just finals. Yes Crows lost players for finals, and so did the Tigers. But perhaps the tiger losses were less important. You can't be sure of that. Both teams were close to full strength in the GF any way.

Oh my. Full strength? We lost Brodie Smith in the Prelim final, Mitch McGovern for most of our finals including the GF, Hugh Greenwood carried an ankle throughout the finals and was toast by qtr time in the GF.....hence why a spud like Andy Otten played. And Pyke doesn’t like to blood New players so we haven’t used many players the last several years but that doesn’t mean we’ve had a good injury run. Last year we did but not this year. Don’t talk about the Crows if you don’t know our team.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

The Dogs winning was the stuff of fairy tales
The Tigers winning is becoming the stuff of nightmares (mainly thanks to their fans)

What did you expect to happen ? did you expect us to be humble in victory after all the years of teasing, taunting, shit flinging etc etc being directed at us. **** THAT, it was coming back with interest and if that has upset the easily offended then tough t***ies.

 

[Rich01]

The bulldogs accomplished something no one had ever done and are unlikely to see again.

The tigers just did what everyone else was doing - beating up on teams on their home ground.

No comparison.

And the Bulldogs opposition didn’t shit the bed on the biggest stage, unlike the grand final losers the year before and after them.

 

[Roovolution]

And the Bulldogs opposition didn’t shit the bed on the biggest stage, unlike the grand final losers the year before and after them.

The Swans were also screwed by the umpires. Interstate team plays Vic team in the GF and gets screwed by the umpires. Think I’ve seen that before....

 

[Tiger2709]

Not every premiership team becomes an amazing dynasty. We've seen a few strong ones over the years but there's a reason Bulldogs and Tigers won from 15 win H&A seasons - they aren't that strong.

Equalisation is hitting the comp and the best teams aren't as far above the rest anymore. I think it would have hit earlier but GWS and Gold Coast took all the picks when they came in allowing the status quo to be maintained for longer because teams at the bottom struggled to bring in as much elite talent.

Without the fierce hunger that Tigers had in 2017 I think they will go back to the pack. Just another side vying for a spot in the 8. Just like the Bulldogs in 2017. Wouldn't be surprised if they start with a run of losses too. Their players have not had to deal with going late into the finals before. Teams will also figure them out. The no second key forward thing is just a passing trend and is not the way of the future.

The mistake you and many others make is to ignore the fact that over the last 5 years we are the 4th placed team, our flag was no flash in the pan.

Yes the comp has equalised which is good but lets not forget that teams like Geelong and Brisbane were all using supplements and procedures that are now banned.

As for no second forward you're right it is probably a passing trend, injuries forced that upon Richmond but now of course we hear how we had a dream run with injuries?

 

[bh90210fan]

And the Bulldogs opposition didn’t shit the bed on the biggest stage, unlike the grand final losers the year before and after them.

The tigers shat the bed every time they left the mcg and faced anyone half decent.

Don’t think it would’ve magically changed if you had to play a final away from home last year.

 

[Tiger2709]

The Swans were also screwed by the umpires. Interstate team plays Vic team in the GF and gets screwed by the umpires. Think I’ve seen that before....

interstate teams often make the finals on the back of home ground favouritism, you lost the GF because you thought you just had to turn up to win it and on the day we were the better team by a long way.

 

[telsor]

you missed Vlastuin NUFC....he missed a paltry 9 weeks. Apart from that, carry on.

Graham also missed the first half of the season (and most of the pre season) due to injury.

 

[telsor]

The tigers shat the bed every time they left the mcg and faced anyone half decent.

Don’t think it would’ve magically changed if you had to play a final away from home last year.

And how did other teams go when traveling against 'half decent' teams?


Also worth noting that Richmond played fewer games at their home ground during H&A than Adelaide did.

We also played more games out of Melbourne (7) than we had out of town teams play us in Melbourne (5).

 

[Tiger Toffee]

The Swans were also screwed by the umpires. Interstate team plays Vic team in the GF and gets screwed by the umpires. Think I’ve seen that before....

You must've missed the two 50m gifts handed to Adelaide in the second half that led to goals or the free to Walker in the last qtr that also led to a goal, did you see the arm chop to Riewoldt in the 3rd that was called play on, i guess not...looks like all you saw were these so called missed frees to the crows...
Betts was held, Betts was held, Betts was ****ing held, sorry BT the umpires couldn't hear you That was the only one the umps got wrong but Jacks missed arm chop in the 3rd evens it out hey.

 

[Tiger2709]

The tigers shat the bed every time they left the mcg and faced anyone half decent.

Don’t think it would’ve magically changed if you had to play a final away from home last year.

BS we lost to GWS at Spotless by 3 points with the last kick of the day, lost to the Dogs at ES by 5 points and Geelong by 14 at gobbledeygook stadium.

We won against Port at AO, we won our only game at Domain, at Metricon and the Gabba and twice at ES, we only lost 2 games by more than 14 points and missed top spot by half a game.

Try bringing some facts next time

 

[telsor]

The Swans were also screwed by the umpires. Interstate team plays Vic team in the GF and gets screwed by the umpires. Think I’ve seen that before....

Wait, aren't you the guy who thinks Adelaide should have had 40 or 50 more umpiring decisions go their way?

 

[Tiger Toffee]

And how did other teams go when traveling against 'half decent' teams?


Also worth noting that Richmond played fewer games at their home ground during H&A than Adelaide did.

We also played more games out of Melbourne (7) than we had out of town teams play us in Melbourne (5).

Bullshit you say that can't be right, according to the salties we played 25 games at the G.