Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier?

[Tiges1229]

Andrews has been very good in regards to improving the transport system, particularly the upgrades to the rail network and the new stations/lines to be made to avoid congestion through The Loop, imo.

However, I think it'd help his cause if he showed urgency to crack down on the failures of the judicial/parole system to appease swinging voters, though it's had it's flaws for a long time and failures in that system occurred under the Bailieu/Napthine era also, like the well publicised parole/judicial failures on Adrian Bayley and Steven Hunter for example that saw them reoffend in the worst possible fashion.

Whether Guy does it, if elected, is another thing though as it seems like his predecessors didn't, though it has been a regular source of PR from him that he'll crack down on it.

I think overall he’s done a good job but your right needs improving in areas , however I’m still voting for him , no way I vote for a leader like Guy who couldn’t even do his planning minister port folio properly , and it will be the Same LNP as it was 4 years ago , they won’t fix shit .

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Labor's plan is to duplicate 3km of track between Greensborough and Montmorency.

Montmorency Station is 2km from Greensborough Station. Labor's plan will actually duplicate 1km of track past Montmorency Station as far as Sherbourne Road. This will leave just 1.4km of single track between Montmorency and Eltham.
This would be more than sufficient to allow Eltham trains to ran reliably at 10 minute frequencies or better [There will some occasional minor delays when are network distributions that would be avoided with full duplication, but nothing to write home about]

Labor's partial duplication plan will achieve 95%+ of the benefits but for probably 50% of the cost - the last 1.4km would be by far the hardest and most expensive part of the project.

Labor's plan also includes:
* 1.5km of duplication between Diamond Creek and Wattle Glen, which will provide substantial benefits to Diamond Creek, Wattle Glen and Hurstbridge commuters as it will allow reliable 20 minute frequencies.
* A new station at Greensborough, which will hopefully include a 3rd platform to facilitate turn-backs
* Major upgrade to the Clifton Hill Junction, which allow an increase in services on both the Hurstrbridge and Mernda Lines. To me this is actually the most interesting part, but I have seen little written about it. Ideally, the upgrade would mean grade seperation.

There's little difference between the Labor plan and the Liberal plan in the long run, as the line needs to be duplicated eventually. The liberal proposal is higher upfront cost and a higher maintenance cost over say the first ten years. The Labor proposal is a lower upfront cost and not paying to maintain the duplicated line that isn't there, but it will still need to be duplicated in the next set of works, which will cost more to re-establish in that section. Much of a muchness.

Only signalling upgrades for the Clifton Hill Junction are being discussed presently. The line there is in good condition so no further upgrades are needed.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

More on the Police "Red Shirts" investigation.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...r-red-shirts-probe-doubt-20180807-p4zw04.html

With the publicly available information including advice to the Police Chief Commissioner, the decision of the fraud squad (or who ever authorised it) to open an investigation at this stage seems suspect.

 

[Tiges1229]

More on the Police "Red Shirts" investigation.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...r-red-shirts-probe-doubt-20180807-p4zw04.html

With the publicly available information including advice to the Police Chief Commissioner, the decision of the fraud squad (or who ever authorised it) to open an investigation at this stage seems suspect.

Pay wall , what’s it stipulate ?

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Pay wall , what’s it stipulate ?

Just clear your cookies for the age and you'll be able to read as many articles as you like.

Basically the Ombudsman gave advice to the Chief Commissioner that Ombudsman's Investigation didn't uncover any additional evidence that would warrant opening a criminal investigation and the main evidence that she relied on in her report were the timesheets that came from the Police themselves.

 

[Tiges1229]

Just clear your cookies for the age and you'll be able to read as many articles as you like.

Basically the Ombudsman gave advice to the Chief Commissioner that Ombudsman's Investigation didn't uncover any additional evidence that would warrant opening a criminal investigation and the main evidence that she relied on in her report were the timesheets that came from the Police themselves.

Vic pol trying to do an FBI aka Hillary style .

 

[Satan]

So a one punch killer gets to play footy and another gets to meet high school students doing legal studies. From herald sun
EXCLUSIVE: A COWARD-punch killer appealing against his eight-year jail term is giving talks to schoolchildren who visit his prison as part of an education program.

Andrew Lee, who killed teen Patrick Cronin in 2016, has been rolled out as a model prisoner to talk to VCE legal studies pupils.

The move has infuriated Patrick’s family. Patrick’s father, Matt Cronin, said on Wednesday: “He hasn’t even been in jail for 12 months.

Seems Murderers in Prisons have more rights than victim families

 

[Gough]

Do we want prison to be purely punitive or is rehabilitation not also part of the process? Strikes me as being a useful resource as well, he gets to show the kids directly what consequences can arise from your actions. I feel for the parents but this strikes me as a fairly typical Murdoch law and order story.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

So a one punch killer gets to play footy and another gets to meet high school students doing legal studies. From herald sun
EXCLUSIVE: A COWARD-punch killer appealing against his eight-year jail term is giving talks to schoolchildren who visit his prison as part of an education program.

Andrew Lee, who killed teen Patrick Cronin in 2016, has been rolled out as a model prisoner to talk to VCE legal studies pupils.

The move has infuriated Patrick’s family. Patrick’s father, Matt Cronin, said on Wednesday: “He hasn’t even been in jail for 12 months.

Seems Murderers in Prisons have more rights than victim families

So you think Andrews made the decision to allow these things to happen?

 

[Ice-Wolf]

So you think Andrews made the decision to allow these things to happen?

Of course! Everything is Andrews fault don't you know anything? Andrews is the head of organised crime in Victoria, the youth, the car jackers, the home invaders are all acting under Andrews direct command...

Frankly with his iron grip on crime in the state it's amazing he has time to be Premier.

<crazy rant>Lets not forgot what the leftist media neglect to mention about Guy's lobster dinner, the mafioso's he was meeting were actually Andrews lieutenants.</crazy rant>

 

[Rob R]

Another lie/cover up by Dan exposed today (by the left wing leaning The Age) Dan aka a crims best mate ridiculed the LNP for saying people are scared to go out for dinner due to the Sudanese but the Age is quoting people too scared to leave their homes and looking to move.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Another lie/cover up by Dan exposed today (by the left wing leaning The Age) Dan aka a crims best mate ridiculed the LNP for saying people are scared to go out for dinner due to the Sudanese but the Age is quoting people too scared to leave their homes and looking to move.

Lol. So you agree with the Liberals who have tried to make it sound like "Melbourne" is scared to go out to dinner?

 

[Rob R]

Lol. So you agree with the Liberals who have tried to make it sound like "Melbourne" is scared to go out to dinner?

Melbourne in terms of the whole.city isnt but there are areas where people are scared it is just that inner city elitists dont care as it doesnt fit with their naive idealistic view of society

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Melbourne in terms of the whole.city isnt but there are areas where people are scared it is just that inner city elitists dont care as it doesnt fit with their naive idealistic view of society

Riiiight. So your so-called "inner city elitists" are "naive" and "idealistic" even though they pointed out exactly what you just pointed out: That it is ridiculous to suggest Melbournians in general are scared to eat out due to 'African gangs'. Turnbull even claimed you would have to walk around with your hands on your ears to not hear Melbournians voicing concern about gangs. It's a joke. The LNP are simply pushing an election issue.

Also, the media, who are often "inner city elites", have been talking about 'African gangs' with varying levels of "care" for yonks. And that "naive idealistic view of society" that you deride is somehow able to take into account that some areas of the world are wracked by war and some refugees are impacted by coming from places of war. Have we seen you criticise people who ignore that for being "naive" and "idealistic"? Or do you instead reserve such criticism for statements of facts - like how there have been similar concerns about 'integration' about a bunch of different ethnicities over the years, who have generally integrated fine.

 

[Hornberger]

There's little difference between the Labor plan and the Liberal plan in the long run, as the line needs to be duplicated eventually. The liberal proposal is higher upfront cost and a higher maintenance cost over say the first ten years. The Labor proposal is a lower upfront cost and not paying to maintain the duplicated line that isn't there, but it will still need to be duplicated in the next set of works, which will cost more to re-establish in that section. Much of a muchness.

You are incorrectly assuming that the rest of line must eventually be duplicated.

There is no point building the infrastructure to run 20 trains per hours when they would be at 10% capacity.

There are approximately currently 50,000 people who live down line from Montmorency, and this is not exactly a high growth area.

Labor's will initially provide 10 minute frequencies to Eltham. This could be improved to 8 minute or possibly 6 minute frequencies without further infrastructure improvements.

I don't see that the demand exists or will exist in the foreseeable future (the next 20 or 30 years) that would justify further infrastructure investment beyond what Labor is proposing. That money would be much better spent duplicating / extending the Cranbourne line which services 100,000 people and is a high growth area.

 

[Tiges1229]

Riiiight. So your so-called "inner city elitists" are "naive" and "idealistic" even though they pointed out exactly what you just pointed out: That it is ridiculous to suggest Melbournians in general are scared to eat out due to 'African gangs'. Turnbull even claimed you would have to walk around with your hands on your ears to not hear Melbournians voicing concern about gangs. It's a joke. The LNP are simply pushing an election issue.

Also, the media, who are often "inner city elites", have been talking about 'African gangs' with varying levels of "care" for yonks. And that "naive idealistic view of society" that you deride is somehow able to take into account that some areas of the world are wracked by war and some refugees are impacted by coming from places of war. Have we seen you criticise people who ignore that for being "naive" and "idealistic"? Or do you instead reserve such criticism for statements of facts - like how there have been similar concerns about 'integration' about a bunch of different ethnicities over the years, who have generally integrated fine.

Serious question i would like to know is what is Matthew guy going to do differently than what Andrews is doing at the moment to try and get control of the situation ?

 

[Groucho]

Serious question i would like to know is what is Matthew guy going to do differently than what Andrews is doing at the moment to try and get control of the situation ?

Well he’ll blame Labor for two years then do nothing until he’s voted out at the next election.

 

[NSWCROW]

He's had enough of murdochs filth


HE'S OK BY ME FOR THAT ALONE

 

[Tiges1229]

Well he’ll blame Labor for two years then do nothing until he’s voted out at the next election.

Lol exactly .

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

You are incorrectly assuming that the rest of line must eventually be duplicated.

There is no point building the infrastructure to run 20 trains per hours when they would be at 10% capacity.

There are approximately currently 50,000 people who live down line from Montmorency, and this is not exactly a high growth area.

Labor's will initially provide 10 minute frequencies to Eltham. This could be improved to 8 minute or possibly 6 minute frequencies without further infrastructure improvements.

I don't see that the demand exists or will exist in the foreseeable future (the next 20 or 30 years) that would justify further infrastructure investment beyond what Labor is proposing. That money would be much better spent duplicating / extending the Cranbourne line which services 100,000 people and is a high growth area.

So why are the ALP intending to duplicate a 1.5km section of the line after Eltham, between Diamond Creek and Wattle Glen?

Anyway, there's a certain timber structure between Eltham and Montmorency that's quite old and has a very low speed limit for trains. Structurally unsound like most of the 19th century bridges still operational in the state and hobbled with a speed limit that's marginally faster than walking pace. It needs replacement in the near future, and seeing as bridges will last for 100 years while duplicating track is a fractional cost, it's not a stupid idea to duplicate the line and the new bridge now instead of replacing like for like.

This could be improved to 8 minute or possibly 6 minute frequencies without further infrastructure improvements.

How, with magic? Two trains can't pass each other on single track. This can only be achieved with sidings or a duplication. 10 minutes is the time it takes for one train to get to Eltham, clear, and for the other to get back and clear.

 

[Generalissimo]

Well he’ll blame Labor for two years then do nothing until he’s voted out at the next election.

And then when it's clear that he's going to lose the election, he'll handcuff Victoria to a useless expensive white elephant just to spite the incoming Labor government. Like the previous Liberal losers did.

 

[Hornberger]

So why are the ALP intending to duplicate a 1.5km section of the line after Eltham, between Diamond Creek and Wattle Glen?

To improve services for Diamond Creek, Wattle Glen and Hurstbridge commuters, for which full duplication to Eltham will not help in the slightest. It will also be far cheaper and quicker to build compared to the Liberals plan.

Whether this part of Labor's plan is the highest priority / best value for money - I am not sure, but it would appear to be better value for money than the Liberals plan.

Anyway, there's a certain timber structure between Eltham and Montmorency that's quite old and has a very low speed limit for trains. Structurally unsound like most of the 19th century bridges still operational in the state and hobbled with a speed limit that's marginally faster than walking pace. It needs replacement in the near future, and seeing as bridges will last for 100 years while duplicating track is a fractional cost, it's not a stupid idea to duplicate the line and the new bridge now instead of replacing like for like.

Labor are not planning on demolishing the existing tressel bridge and replace it with a single track, they are just going to leave it alone.

If and when the existing structure is replaced, then it would be a no brainer to duplicate, but that doesn't mean you have duplicate it immediately.

You need consider the benefits of economies of scale of doing 1 large project compared to the time value of money of waiting until the upgrade is actually needed.

How, with magic? Two trains can't pass each other on single track. This can only be achieved with sidings or a duplication. 10 minutes is the time it takes for one train to get to Eltham, clear, and for the other to get back and clear.

Basic maths:
Labour's plan will leave only 1.4km of single track as the first km after Montmorency will be duplicated.
1.4km of single track at 35km/h = 2.4 minutes
60 / 2.4 = 25 trains per hour
6 minute headway = 60 / 6 x 2 = 20 trains per hour
20 / 25 = 80% theoretically capacity.

10 minute headway is easy
8 minute headway is achievable, but with the occasional minor delays when trains run behind schedule
6 minute headway can be done in theory, but requires all trains to run very close to schedule.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Labor are not planning on demolishing the existing tressel bridge and replace it with a single track, they are just going to leave it alone.

Yeah I think there are heritage issues with as well so they can't just knock it down and replace, you have to build a second bridge next to it which vastly increases the footprint needed and takes up recreational land that is currently in use.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

To improve services for Diamond Creek, Wattle Glen and Hurstbridge commuters, for which full duplication to Eltham will not help in the slightest. It will also be far cheaper and quicker to build compared to the Liberals plan.

Whether this part of Labor's plan is the highest priority / best value for money - I am not sure, but it would appear to be better value for money than the Liberals plan.

The difference between the two plans is the location of the duplicated track. The whole point of adding in the duplicated section is to get trains from Hurstbridge to the City Loop as frequently as possible by providing a place where two trains can pass each other. It's about improving the overall service for the entire line, not just the three stations you've mentioned.

The liberals have costed their plan at $307 million. the ALP costed their plan at $530 million.

Labor are not planning on demolishing the existing tressel bridge and replace it with a single track, they are just going to leave it alone.

If and when the existing structure is replaced, then it would be a no brainer to duplicate, but that doesn't mean you have duplicate it immediately.

You need consider the benefits of economies of scale of doing 1 large project compared to the time value of money of waiting until the upgrade is actually needed.

The economies of scale would argue against separate contracts for works in the same sections due to overheads and disruptions to the Metro network. The bridge needs to be rebuilt in the short term, it makes sense to replace it now.

Basic maths:
Labour's plan will leave only 1.4km of single track as the first km after Montmorency will be duplicated.
1.4km of single track at 35km/h = 2.4 minutes
60 / 2.4 = 25 trains per hour
6 minute headway = 60 / 6 x 2 = 20 trains per hour
20 / 25 = 80% theoretically capacity.

10 minute headway is easy
8 minute headway is achievable, but with the occasional minor delays when trains run behind schedule
6 minute headway can be done in theory, but requires all trains to run very close to schedule.

In other words, the 10 minute headway is the operational outcome and the others are using some form of magic in which the trains are never more than 2 minutes late to leave a station. So, magic.

 

[nobbyiscool]

A couple of big rail announcements today demonstrates why governments of both sides ignored infrastructure for so long.

A look at social media commentary following these announcements really highlights what a pathetic, selfish, entitled people we are with the incessant "but what about me?!" bullshit.

It's like everyone in this ****ing city expects a train station at the end of their street. But you can't close any road or disrupt any rail services while you build it, you can't make any noise while you build it, and you absolutely cannot spoil some whinging pricks view of a friggen empty sky despite the fact you're increasing their house value, providing better public transport, and giving them an amazing 21st century park right next door to their house.

And when it opens? The station still can't create any noise or cause any light spill... oh, and no one else is allowed to use it, lest these entitled pieces of shit not get a seat because apparently a seat on public transport is a basic human right (said no one in an inner-to-mid range suburb ever.)

**** me, what a dismal view of Victorians/Melburnians it paints every time Andrews or Allan posts on the "big build". It makes me hate people even more than I usually do. You want public transport? Don't move to a place that doesn't have any. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too with cheap housing, backyards, and inner-city amenities.