If there was another 9/11 scale attack on the US

[UNIT]

Im just curious. How would YOU feel if there was to be another 9/11 scale terror attack somewhere within the US? I think i can say id have empathy for the victims and their families as no one deserves to die like that, but i have to admit there would be part of me that would think 'cop that America'. I know its wrong to feel like that, but after seeing what they have done to Iraq and its people and the basic climate of Nazi Germany style patriotism/rabid nationalism that has grown in that country since 9/11, i really wouldnt be too upset to be honest.

What about you? And is it wrong to feel like that?

 

[dan warna]

civilians shouldn't be targetted.

enough said.

al qaeda are scum

US military targets are fair enough.

 

[Murray]

civilians shouldn't be targetted.

enough said.

al qaeda are scum

US military targets are fair enough.

Exactly
If it is wrong to kill civilians in Iraq, then it is just as wrong to kill them in the US.

Two wrongs don't .........................................

 

[embleygirl]

Exactly
If it is wrong to kill civilians in Iraq, then it is just as wrong to kill them in the US.

Two wrongs don't .........................................

I doubt George Bush see's it that way.

 

[dan warna]

Exactly
If it is wrong to kill civilians in Iraq, then it is just as wrong to kill them in the US.

Two wrongs don't .........................................

I concur, however there is a lot of anger at the americans government and even thinking folks get angry (I know I do) when they see fuel air bombs and cluster bombs used in civilian areas and you got to think that some folks think that justifies similar attacks on the US.

but you are right two wrong don't make a right.

 

[Murray]

I concur, however there is a lot of anger at the americans government and even thinking folks get angry (I know I do) when they see fuel air bombs and cluster bombs used in civilian areas and you got to think that some folks think that justifies similar attacks on the US.

but you are right two wrong don't make a right.

Yep, I get as angry about it as anyone, but we don't go out and kill people.

I, like you, would much prefer to point out the hypocrisy of the US position of "crying for our innocent dead" while slaughtering thousands of innocents in far off countries.

Where I do differ is that when bombings or like occur in Western Countries, naturally I am upset, but I do understand the reasons why it is occurs.
When I try to explain why it has happened to people around me, often I am accused of supporting terrorism.
It is as though people want to shut their minds off from the
route cause.

 

[- PC -]

Yep, I get as angry about it as anyone, but we don't go out and kill people.

I, like you, would much prefer to point out the hypocrisy of the US position of "crying for our innocent dead" while slaughtering thousands of innocents in far off countries.

Where I do differ is that when bombings or like occur in Western Countries, naturally I am upset, but I do understand the reasons why it is occurs.
When I try to explain why it has happened to people around me, often I am accused of supporting terrorism.
It is as though people want to shut their minds off from the
route cause.

Cant say too much more than this. My anti-Americanism is government focused. The people, like all people all over the world just want to live in peace.... its when governments get involved that the intellectual side of me gets angry. I know I shouldnt be angry at the people but I do when they say ''why us''?

 

[bmwofoz]

First off, its a MURDER to go and kill someone on Purpose, no excuse changes this fact.

Its true that Two wrongs don't make a right, but its a bit like the Chicken and Egg, who started it. well lets ask, who shall end it. its clear the Islamofasict get some enjoyment out of blowning things up,

which they have been doing for a number of years, sure the Americans have made Policy stuff ups, but it appears we wish to only attack the Yanks, for its a little too hard for some to also attack the Islamofasict.

Osama did start this War in 1993. not 2003.

1993 was a Essendon Preimership year.

 

[UNIT]

Cant say too much more than this. My anti-Americanism is government focused. The people, like all people all over the world just want to live in peace.... its when governments get involved that the intellectual side of me gets angry. I know I shouldnt be angry at the people but I do when they say ''why us''?

See normally id agree with that. But right now there is a big slice of America's population that sees it as there god given right as Americans to 'whoop ass'. The Toby Keith types singing and talking about how it is the 'American Way' to bomb the fxxx out of people. For people like that i wouldnt shed so much as a sxxx let alone a tear. I feel bad for saying that, but its just how i feel. And they only have themselves to blame for a big section of the world feeling like that.
I hate bullies, i always have, and right now the Americans are bullies.

 

[Murray]

First off, its a MURDER to go and kill someone on Purpose, no excuse changes this fact.

Its true that Two wrongs don't make a right, but its a bit like the Chicken and Egg, who started it. well lets ask, who shall end it. its clear the Islamofasict get some enjoyment out of blowning things up,

which they have been doing for a number of years, sure the Americans have made Policy stuff ups, but it appears we wish to only attack the Yanks, for its a little too hard for some to also attack the Islamofasict.

Osama did start this War in 1993. not 2003.

1993 was a Essendon Preimership year.

This is the level of ignorance that scares me.

And what about this gem: When Islamists kill someone its murder, when the US does it its 'Policy Stuff ups'

This 'war' as you put it, has its origins well before 1993.

What the hell, I'm wasting my time aren't I?

 

[Murray]

See normally id agree with that. But right now there is a big slice of America's population that sees it as there god given right as Americans to 'whoop ass'. The Toby Keith types singing and talking about how it is the 'American Way' to bomb the fxxx out of people. For people like that i wouldnt shed so much as a sxxx let alone a tear. I feel bad for saying that, but its just how i feel. And they only have themselves to blame for a big section of the world feeling like that.
I hate bullies, i always have, and right now the Americans are bullies.

And don't leave out that god fearing pastor Pat Buchanan who thinks it is OK to assasinate elected leaders of other countries on the basis of their friedliness with the US.

But I don't think ordinary Americans think that way

 

[camsmith]

UNIT, the New York times wants you to write some articles for them, your attitude is just what they look for in reporters.

Up for it?


By the way, you saying that you would think "cop that America" is unthinkable. No innocent person/s deserve that. Actually scrap the New York times, Al Qaeda would love to have you aboard.

 

[UNIT]

UNIT, the New York times wants you to write some articles for them, your attitude is just what they look for in reporters.

Up for it?


By the way, you saying that you would think "cop that America" is unthinkable. No innocent person/s deserve that. Actually scrap the New York times, Al Qaeda would love to have you aboard.

No its not, its an ugly to thing to say, but for a great many many people itd be an honest assesment id suggest. Im not saying 'cop that America' in an Al Queda sense, but in the sense of someone who would of just seen the playground bully finally end up on his arse. The Americans have basically destroyed Iraq and killed thousands upon thousands and simply refuse to get the message that the Iraqis dont not want them there anymore, if they ever did. The Americans point blank refuse to get that message and Bush, like some demented disciple of Goebells continues to rant about 'total victory'. For who? Halliburton?

There was a time when i would of had unconditional compassion for ALL Americans if they were attacked. But the way in which many Americans have blindly jumped aboard the 'with us or against us' train, the way in which many Americans have embraced the Neo Con 'whoop ass' agenda....im sorry but it would be only natural for many people in this world to think 'cop that America'. My heart would go out to all people who would die and lose loved ones, but objectively the ones that had Toby Keith CDs and loved seeing Bill O'Reillys rants....im sorry but those Americans make me sick.

And go write for the New York Times you say. Oooh diddums arent all sections of the US media towing the Neo Con 'lets take over the world' line? Oh no. We cant have that. Why dont you send your resume and a sample of your work to Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly and tell them your keen to be their Aussie Correspondent. You can fill them in on the Aussie efforts in the 'war on terror' and file loads of masturbatory pieces on the 'brave' leadership of JWH.

 

[camsmith]

No its not, its an ugly to thing to say, but for a great many many people itd be an honest assesment id suggest. Im not saying 'cop that America' in an Al Queda sense, but in the sense of someone who would of just seen the playground bully finally end up on his arse. The Americans have basically destroyed Iraq and killed thousands upon thousands and simply refuse to get the message that the Iraqis dont not want them there anymore, if they ever did. The Americans point blank refuse to get that message and Bush, like some demented disciple of Goebells continues to rant about 'total victory'. For who? Halliburton?

You just don't get it. No amount of FACTS or innocents being killed by bombs will change your mind will it? Americans Destroyed Iraq? Are they the same people rebuilding Iraq? Also, Iraqis don't want them there? What, do you think they want Saddam back?

So many questions to ask about your typical anti-war rant.. so little evidence.

There was a time when i would of had unconditional compassion for ALL Americans if they were attacked. But the way in which many Americans have blindly jumped aboard the 'with us or against us' train, the way in which many Americans have embraced the Neo Con 'whoop ass' agenda....im sorry but it would be only natural for many people in this world to think 'cop that America'. My heart would go out to all people who would die and lose loved ones, but objectively the ones that had Toby Keith CDs and loved seeing Bill O'Reillys rants....im sorry but those Americans make me sick.

So let me get this straight, If someone doesn't agree with you, you are happy for them to be killed?
Or am i reading that wrong?

It's like when people say, the people of 9/11 deserved it, what they don't realise is those people DIDNT vote for Bush...
Like when people say not to travel to Bali because of the Corby business, They aren't the problem..

And go write for the New York Times you say. Oooh diddums arn't all sections of the US media towing the Neo Con 'lets take over the world' line? Oh no. We cant have that. Why dont you send your resume and a sample of your work to Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly and tell them your keen to be their Aussie Correspondent. You can fill them in on the Aussie efforts in the 'war on terror' and file loads of masturbatory pieces on the 'brave' leadership of JWH.

I'd love to work with a news station with a balanced view, Maybe i should just send them a resume. Why don't i be one of the guests on "The O'Reilly Factor" and tell him about all the anti-American feelings spreading Australia and how the media (IE: The Age) are going along for the ride.

Nice idea.

 

[UNIT]

You just don't get it. No amount of FACTS or innocents being killed by bombs will change your mind will it? Americans Destroyed Iraq? Are they the same people rebuilding Iraq? Also, Iraqis don't want them there? What, do you think they want Saddam back?

So many questions to ask about your typical anti-war rant.. so little evidence.




So let me get this straight, If someone doesn't agree with you, you are happy for them to be killed?
Or am i reading that wrong?

It's like when people say, the people of 9/11 deserved it, what they don't realise is those people DIDNT vote for Bush...
Like when people say not to travel to Bali because of the Corby business, They aren't the problem..



I'd love to work with a news station with a balanced view, Maybe i should just send them a resume. Why don't i be one of the guests on "The O'Reilly Factor" and tell him about all the anti-American feelings spreading Australia and how the media (IE: The Age) are going along for the ride.

Nice idea.

Of course im not, and you know i never suggested anything of the kind, but you just thought you would insert the notion anyway, and good on you for that. Im simply saying if there are people in America that are hyped up on a heady of brew of chest thumping nationalism, evangelical self righteousness; hypnotized by the neo con drums of war and clowns like Toby Keith singing about how 'putting boots in arses is the American way', im sorry but im not gonna lose any sleep over the thought of a world without those kinds of pompous, mindless 'patriots' in it.
The world belongs to all of us. Not just America.

 

[dan warna]

First off, its a MURDER to go and kill someone on Purpose, no excuse changes this fact.

Its true that Two wrongs don't make a right, but its a bit like the Chicken and Egg, who started it. well lets ask, who shall end it. its clear the Islamofasict get some enjoyment out of blowning things up,

which they have been doing for a number of years, sure the Americans have made Policy stuff ups, but it appears we wish to only attack the Yanks, for its a little too hard for some to also attack the Islamofasict.

Osama did start this War in 1993. not 2003.

1993 was a Essendon Preimership year.

incredibly naive.

the saddam was up to his nasty tricks in the 80s with the blessing of the americans after their stool the shah was deposed by a popular rebellion

the brits betrayed the arabs after ww1 and ww2 and inbetween the gassed thousands of arabs with nerve gas.

the turks supressed and opressed the arabs before ww1

the monarchy in saudi is maintained by force of arms with no sight of democracy

you could go back 2,000 years and see generation after generation of war and hatred.

its a fact that the US supported and endorsed oppressive governments in the ME as did the brits, french and russians.

There is a fair amount of justifiable anger at the americans.

where is the democracy in kuwait 15 years after 'liberation'?

what is kuwait except an artificial country created out of oil exploration charts.

who started this? certainly not a simpletons answer like you provided.

 

[just maybe]

You just don't get it. No amount of FACTS or innocents being killed by bombs will change your mind will it?

You haven't presented any facts.

Americans Destroyed Iraq?

Yes.

Are they the same people rebuilding Iraq?

Apparently. You'd expect them to after destroying it, but they're doing a pretty shoddy job of it.

Also, Iraqis don't want them there?

Pretty much, no.

What, do you think they want Saddam back?

No, but more people are dying now than under Saddam, and you can't even feel safe walking on the streets anymore. It's simply from one regime of terror to another.

So many questions to ask about your typical anti-war rant.. so little evidence.

Where's your evidence?

So let me get this straight, If someone doesn't agree with you, you are happy for them to be killed?
Or am i reading that wrong?

You're deliberately reading it wrong.

It's like when people say, the people of 9/11 deserved it, what they don't realise is those people DIDNT vote for Bush...

I've never heard anyone say the people of 9/11 deserved it.

Like when people say not to travel to Bali because of the Corby business, They aren't the problem..

What?

I'd love to work with a news station with a balanced view, Maybe i should just send them a resume. Why don't i be one of the guests on "The O'Reilly Factor" and tell him about all the anti-American feelings spreading Australia and how the media (IE: The Age) are going along for the ride.

Why would you want to work on a balanced news station? You're about as balanced as a drunk on one leg.

 

[- PC -]

This is the level of ignorance that scares me.

And what about this gem: When Islamists kill someone its murder, when the US does it its 'Policy Stuff ups'

This 'war' as you put it, has its origins well before 1993.

What the hell, I'm wasting my time aren't I?

Its RJ Murray what did you expect ?

 

[DaveW]

Like telling my nearest American 'serves you right for re electing Bush'

Any terrorist attack would surely take place in a major metropolis like New York, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago or Washington.

Get out a picture of the 2004 (and for that matter 2000) electoral map. These were the places that voted solidly AGAINST Bush.

 

[UNIT]

Any terrorist attack would surely take place in a major metropolis like New York, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago or Washington.

Get out a picture of the 2004 (and for that matter 2000) electoral map. These were the places that voted solidly AGAINST Bush.

Thats true. When you think about it, that makes all these pathetic 'cowboy patriots' like Toby Keith and the rest, worse. There little hick towns and truckstops arent gonna get hit are they.

 

[UNIT]

Here are some of Toby Keith's lyrics for the uninitiated...

Justice will be served
And the battle will rate
This big dog will fight when you rattle his cage
You’ll be sorry you that you messed with the US of A
Cuz will put a boot in your ass
It’s the American way

Hey Uncle Sam put your name at the top of his list
And the statue of liberty started shaking her fists
And the eagle will fly
And its gonna be hell
When you hear mother freedom start ringing her bell
And it will feel like the whole wide word is raining down on you
Brought to you courtesy of the red, white and blue

So to you CamSmith, no, i couldnt give a rats arse if Americans that think like this (and i think itd be fair to say a fair few do) 'cop it'. I really couldnt. If that makes me a bad person so be it. I believe in standing up for the little people and if Americans think they have the right to bomb anyone in this world without consequence well there wrong. I dont wish death on anyone, but if the Americans think they can give it out, they have to accept there gonna get a bit back.

 

[Dry Rot]

You just don't get it. No amount of FACTS or innocents being killed by bombs will change your mind will it? Americans Destroyed Iraq? Are they the same people rebuilding Iraq? Also, Iraqis don't want them there? What, do you think they want Saddam back?

.

Went to a fascinating talk by Robert Fisk last week.

A few points he made:

1. The uprising now facing the Yanks was foretold by Osama before the invasion. The West focussed on the Osama side ie was he alive, where was he etc they never properly analysed what he said

2. While noting his opposition to regimes like Saddam's he called for a united war against the invaders

3. Fisk has met some of the insurgent commanders - they are not Saudis but ex-Iraqui army folk, well trained vets of previous wars

4. The worst thing the Yanks did was publicly capture Saddam - people were afraid of opposing the Yanks because if they were successful, they feared getting back Saddam and his sons. This now can't happen, and they're uniting to expel the invaders. The vets are having a good time finally using their iniatitive, which they couldn't under Saddam.

5. Fisk described what Baghdad was like and the lack of control the Yanks have. In his view, Iraq is now lost.

 

[camsmith]

Went to a fascinating talk by Robert Fisk last week.

...

5. Fisk described what Baghdad was like and the lack of control the Yanks have. In his view, Iraq is now lost

Fascinating, would have loved to of heard what he had to say.
Iraq is now lost? Would be good to of heard how and why he thinks it was lost.

Where was this talk?

----

Here are some of Toby Keith's lyrics for the uninitiated...
You’ll be sorry you that you messed with the US of A
Cuz will put a boot in your ass
It’s the American way

Some people love their country.. So?

We know the USA is powerful, and they know it. There's nothing wrong with those lyrics, if you mess with America you will be sorry, whereas if you mess with someone like Spain, they will sit back and take it.

I hope that's how Australians feel to, if you mess with us, you will be sorry. Every country should have an attitude like that, you can't just sit back or hide and think nothing bad will happen to you. It doesn't work like that.




---

You haven't presented any facts.

Facts on Iraq? I have Plenty of times.
Fact is they are soon going to be voting on a new constitution soon.

Quote:
Americans Destroyed Iraq?



Yes.

Suicide bombers had NOTHING to do with destroying Iraq did they?

Quote:
Also, Iraqis don't want them there?




Pretty much, no.

Pretty much? I think you should look at who it is that dont want them there...

Quote: What do you think they want Saddam back?




No, but more people are dying now than under Saddam, and you can't even feel safe walking on the streets anymore. It's simply from one regime of terror to another.

And the Americans are killing all those people right?
It's not safe, no, not yet...and people like you want to pull American forces out ? Wouldn't that mean more deaths to the Iraqi's, you dont want that do you?

Quote:
So many questions to ask about your typical anti-war rant.. so little evidence.




Where's your evidence?

Where's yours?

Quote:
I'd love to work with a news station with a balanced view, Maybe i should just send them a resume. Why don't i be one of the guests on "The O'Reilly Factor" and tell him about all the anti-American feelings spreading Australia and how the media (IE: The Age) are going along for the ride.




Why would you want to work on a balanced news station? You're about as balanced as a drunk on one leg.

lol at the drunk on one leg line, didn't know you had a sense of humour.

You right, I'm not balanced at all, either is Sean Hannity, which is why they also have Allan colmes. You get it? BALANCED. Right and Left, More than can be said from say the BBC or CNN.

 

[Dry Rot]

Fascinating, would have loved to of heard what he had to say.
Iraq is now lost? Would be good to of heard how and why he thinks it was lost.

Where was this talk?

.

Centre for Peace
and Confl ict Studies (SYdney Uni)

presents
Dr Robert Fisk
giving a public lecture on his new book
“The Great War of Civilisation:
The Conquest of the Middle East”
Dr Robert Fisk is regarded as one of the world?s foremost international journalists. Since 1988, Dr Fisk
has been the Middle East correspondent for the Independent in the UK. He has been honoured with 28
British and foreign press awards, including the Johns Hopkins SIAS-CIBA prize
for international journalism, and the Overall Winner of the Amnesty International
UK Press Awards in 1998.
At the risk of his own life, he has endeavoured to bring truth and understanding to
international affairs and confl icts. He has resided in the Middle East for 28 years,
and has covered the Iranian Revolution, the Iran-Iraq War, three Gulf wars, and
many other international confl icts. Dr Fisk is the author of two books on Irish
history, as well as ?Pity the Nation?, tracing the history of the Lebanon war. He
is about to release his new book ?The Great War for Civilisation : The Conquest
of the Middle East?. Dr Fisk is in Australia to deliver the inaugural Edward Said Memorial Lecture at
Adelaide University.
Wednesday October 5th, 2005
12pm - 2pm
Stephen Roberts Lecture Theatre
Eastern Avenue, University of Sydney
Cost: FREE
RSVP to reign.haub@arts.usyd.edu.au

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Back to the thread,
the 9/11 terrorists were saudis.

No opinions on them?
Anyone?