Is Clarkson's time up?

[Changa10]

I haven't voted but yesterday at the ground I was just shaking my head at some of the centre bounce set ups after quarter time.

It was like Clarko decided at quarter time, 'OK we have proven we can beat this mob with Plan A, so let's see how we go if we play the Swan's game plan'.

Took all our dominant players from the forward line and congested the footy.

A number of times we lined up with 3 half forward flankers, all up across the centre square line, and no-one at all inside 50, at a centre bounce. The Swans put men on our three plus had 2 spare back in the 50, at around 30 and 40 from goal. Mitch got a clearance on one of these occasions and had to bascially kick it sideways towards the Gunns Stand as there was noone inside 50. I know this happens when the ball has been in our defensive end, but from a centre bounce? WTF?

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

We need old clarko back

The same clarko that had the playing list at Brighton beach at 4am following a Friday night loss

He's really lost that ruthlessness he had when he started
Remember when he dropped franklin in 2006?
Wouldnt mind him sending a message by dropping buddy for a couple of weeks

Couldnt agree more.

Clarko has lost his ruthlessness. When he came in he wasnt afraid to make the hard calls, but now it appears he plays favourites a bit too much, its only natural when you get to know these players over 7 years.

I remember when one player was late to a morning training session in his first preseason and he made the whole group come to training at 4am the next morning.

 

[Lethal44]

Clarkson ain't the problem, the whole coaching department is.
Compare Clarkson, Cameron, Bolton, Simpson and Beverage to any other coaching group and you'll see were coming up short.

For example lets have a look at Melbourne- Neeld, Craig, Viney, Royal and Rawlings.

How about Brisbane- Voss, Harvey, O'Donnell, Fletcher and Woewodin.

Two cash strapped clubs, were's Hawthorn been spending all it's so called money, not on the football department thats for sure.

 

[pipcoo]

His EGO has become bigger than his body mass.
His way or the highway just doesn't work anymore.
He has out coached himself.
We still only have one game plan.


When did you last see a ruckmen punch the BALL more then 5 metres.

Why would your entire HAWKS foward line be playing in the swan's defence.

2 Hawks vs 6 Swans equals Hawks forward line.

 

[macdaddio]

Clarko wants to be unique, he wants to revolutionize the game that no one has done yet.
He doesn't want to continue down the same road as all the good clubs have been,he just wants to be different.
Geelong, Pies, Swans, Weagles Blues, all have only made minor changes to their game styles, but Hawthorn..wow we have gone from Kicking in to two of the best forwards any one has seen for a long time to short kicking side ways,backwards, then forwards and then sideways again and backwards and then forward again.
He is a good coach but I think he tries too hard to be different..

 

[Necromancer Beth]

Clarko wants to be unique, he wants to revolutionize the game that no one has done yet.
He doesn't want to continue down the same road as all the good clubs have been,he just wants to be different.
Geelong, Pies, Swans, Weagles Blues, all have only made minor changes to their game styles, but Hawthorn..wow we have gone from Kicking in to two of the best forwards any one has seen for a long time to short kicking side ways,backwards, then forwards and then sideways again and backwards and then forward again.
He is a good coach but I think he tries too hard to be different..

Me thinks Clarkson has a very big ego.

 

[Necromancer Beth]

I haven't voted but yesterday at the ground I was just shaking my head at some of the centre bounce set ups after quarter time.

It was like Clarko decided at quarter time, 'OK we have proven we can beat this mob with Plan A, so let's see how we go if we play the Swan's game plan'.

Took all our dominant players from the forward line and congested the footy.

A number of times we lined up with 3 half forward flankers, all up across the centre square line, and no-one at all inside 50, at a centre bounce. The Swans put men on our three plus had 2 spare back in the 50, at around 30 and 40 from goal. Mitch got a clearance on one of these occasions and had to bascially kick it sideways towards the Gunns Stand as there was noone inside 50. I know this happens when the ball has been in our defensive end, but from a centre bounce? WTF?

It's bizzare to say the least.

 

[MattRat]

I think his body language after the Cats loss said it all. He looked a beaten man with an empty trick bag. I hope he can find the happy juice to get through the season.

 

[Messenger]

Clarkson ain't the problem, the whole coaching department is.
Compare Clarkson, Cameron, Bolton, Simpson and Beverage to any other coaching group and you'll see were coming up short.

For example lets have a look at Melbourne- Neeld, Craig, Viney, Royal and Rawlings.

How about Brisbane- Voss, Harvey, O'Donnell, Fletcher and Woewodin.

Two cash strapped clubs, were's Hawthorn been spending all it's so called money, not on the football department thats for sure.

You're just looking at a list of names. What makes Shane Woewodin better than Luke Beveridge?

 

[mollyfud]

Did I miss a game or something? Did we lose to the Giants or the Suns when I wasn't paying attention?

 

[NICE1]

Did I miss a game or something? Did we lose to the Giants or the Suns when I wasn't paying attention?

Yeah go back to sleep....

 

[Messenger]

Yeah go back to sleep....

Why not answer his question?

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

As it stands now, I don't think you have anything to worry about. You need to get Birchall and Smith back into your team, because without them you have really only Savage as a genuinely quick ball carrier, and that's not just in your midfield, that is in the whole side.
I think that is why Buddy is being played up the ground, and it is quite right that people are complaining about it, given how damaging he is in the forward line.
However, Buddy is only a dominant tall forward when he can be one out in a bit of space. He can't take a pack mark, and he can't take a contested mark against more than one opponent.
I think the signs of Roughead being fit and firing were great yesterday, and I think he will be a real weapon if you keep using him in the ruck, it seems like he really gets confidence and feels like he is in the game when he can get a run on the ball.
Consider to your side yesterday, a fit and firing midfield Hodge, Birchall, Smith and Gibson for the whole game. And what I think cost you the game yesterday, Sammy Mitchell back to his normal self.

I do think guys like Osbourne and Brad Sewell are on the fringe of the team though, especially considering how well Puopolo played in a couple of games last year, and given that Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell are enough in and under ball winners in the midfield you guys may be better off with a different type like Young.

Also if I were Clarkson I'd play Burgoyne up forward or down back as a rule. I am not sure he puts on enough pressure or spreads defensively from the contest well enough anymore to be a midfielder anymore.

I do think people in here tend to overate the Hawthorn list too. It is very capable of winning a flag this year and it is close to the best, there is high end talent, good middle talent and a lot of depth. However there is a real lack of talent in some areas (ruck, kpd) and the scope of improvement for your very best players isn't great, besides Rioli.

It could be argued that Sewell, Burgoyne, Hodge, Mitchell, Buddy and Josh Gibson, don't have a lot more to give in relation to what they have done in the past.

I have you winning your next 7 games leading into an MCG battle with Carlton in round 14.

 

[dickbobson]

I think it's way to early to be calling for the coaches sacking however like others I would like him to rethink his game plan.

Play the key forwards in their proper positions with a couple if crumbers at their feet.

One ruckman rucking and one on the bench or in the backline.

It's probably time to look at bringing some of the younger players with leg speed into the mix instead of the same old faces every week. If they aren't performing give the kids like Hill and Langford a go. We have been second to the ball towards the end of games all year as the older players run out of puff and I think some are only getting games on past reputations.

 

[Spursfan]

However, Buddy is only a dominant tall forward when he can be one out in a bit of space. He can't take a pack mark, and he can't take a contested mark against more than one opponent

Thanks for the tip

I do think people in here tend to overate the Hawthorn list too. It is very capable of winning a flag this year and it is close to the best, there is high end talent, good middle talent and a lot of depth. However there is a real lack of talent in some areas (ruck, kpd) and the scope of improvement for your very best players isn't great, besides Rioli.

Not worried about improvement in the top end necessarily, they need to get back into or near their best form and the rest will fall into line.

 

[Spursfan]

I think it's way to early to be calling for the coaches sacking however like others I would like him to rethink his game plan.

Forget the game plan the players need to bring a competitive effort first.

 

[Bosk]

Did I miss a game or something? Did we lose to the Giants or the Suns when I wasn't paying attention?

Nope, we've lost to 3 other premiership contenders in the space of 5 games.

Considering we were favorites to take out the flag at the start of the year I think it's fair to say many of us have had to re-assess our expectations for season 2012.

 

[Messenger]

Nope, we've lost to 3 other premiership contenders in the space of 5 games.

Considering we were favorites to take out the flag at the start of the year I think it's fair to say many of us have had to re-assess our expectations for season 2012.

So there is no possibility we could beat them again this year? None?

 

[Bosk]

So there is no possibility we could beat them again this year? None?

Not at all, I didn't say that and I'd like to hope I didn't imply it either.


Still, to have gone from being premiership favorite in the eyes of most bookies & supporters to a team who is 3-5 (tough draw notwithstanding) is a pretty big step down. Worse yet it's happened so quickly that we've had very little time to adjust our thinking.

I'm not saying we can't bounce back, with the run of easy games we have until the bye I'd expect us to chalk up few if any losses from now until we meet Carlton.
Unfortunately that won't remove the lingering doubts I have that our gameplan isn't good enough for us to match it the top teams for 4 quarters, and that our team is somewhat suspect mentally when the pressure is applied.


Given how little we've got out of Gunston, Hale, Hodge, Suckling, Smith, Bruest, Stratton, Puopolo, Shiels and even Franklin this year I think its fair to say we have a huge amount of improvement left in us. I would LOVE to see the team firing with all these blokes contributing and I'm sure if it happens we can beat any side.
Right now I just have my doubts that Clarkson has it in him to get the best out of the talent we have. Hopefully he will prove me wrong and if he does I'll be the first to say so!

 

[PottSie2]

So there is no possibility we could beat them again this year? None?

We lost 5 out 6 games against other top 4 teams last year. There's always a possibility of winning, but there are some fundamental elements that people here believe Clarkson needs to address. Most of which are very valid.

The good news is that 75% of people want to give Clarkson more time and are hoping he can deliver.

 

[NICE1]

Why not answer his question?

pretty much what everyone else is saying...we cant beat the teams that count and I couldnt care less about how good we look against the others. Maybe I overrated us like so many others....

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

I never bag the coach but Clarko needs to drop a few blokes who are just not doing enough. His faith isn't being repaid. Ossie has been on a downward spiral for a couple of years and tends to play a half decent game very 3-4 games to save his skin. He isn't going to improve. He should be depth moving forward and no more.

Hale needs to be played as a first ruck - if he isn't up to it then so be it. He isn't giving enough as a forward.

Savage must play every game, he is our future and a very decent mark for his size. We must play him full stop. Same with Smith.

Shaun Burgoyne must play as a deep forward. This is where he is going to hurt opposition most with his limited possessions. Think Dew.

Lewis must, must play in the centre. We simply have not extracted the true return from his talents. We have wasted him to date. Sewell is serviceable but he is in decline. Tough, but we must start Lewis in the square from the start.

Importantly, we have to stop trying to play perfect football. We are forever trying to set up the perfect play.

 

[Spursfan]

Still, to have gone from being premiership favorite in the eyes of most bookies & supporters to a team who is 3-5 (tough draw notwithstanding) is a pretty big step down. Worse yet it's happened so quickly that we've had very little time to adjust our thinking.

Honestly who gives a toss what the media/ bookies think - they just build teams up to tear them down.

 

[PenAndPaper]

What I can not understand for the life of me is why we are not playing a gameplan remotely close to our 08 one. The fact is that the Eagles are playing very close to how we did in 08 and they are IMO the team looking most likely to win a premiership this year.

We wouldn't need a gorilla defender if we had a zone just like 08 to reduce the inside 50 count

 

[Bosk]

What I can not understand for the life of me is why we are not playing a gameplan remotely close to our 08 one. The fact is that the Eagles are playing very close to how we did in 08 and they are IMO the team looking most likely to win a premiership this year.

We wouldn't need a gorilla defender if we had a zone just like 08 to reduce the inside 50 count

Teams would just kick long over the zone and Shoenmakers would be exposed one on one, especially against Geelong, West Coast & Collingwood.

The zone worked in 08 because 1. teams had no idea how to play it and 2. we had Croad.

Its 2012, 2008 is ancient history in football terms. I only wish all the players & coaches at Hawthorn realized this.....