He was not eligible. Just no checked.
Everyone assumed he was, as he played 300 plus games.
Opinion Is father-son access going to heavily dictate the next decade of premiers?
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Everyone assumed he was, as he played 300 plus games.
Muddiemoose
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I haven't followed the thread from the start, but father-son and the recent academy successes show how well talent can be curated if there is a competitive advantage available to the clubs.
If a club knows they have exclusive access to a player by genetics or geography, they can put in a lot of early development and create some superstars.
Either the AFL is not able to do this, or they are not as good at it.
Also, on a different point, the Victorian private school system is effectively an AFL academy, and if the AFL put as much time effort and cash into the public school system we would be able to increase the talent pool even further.
If a club knows they have exclusive access to a player by genetics or geography, they can put in a lot of early development and create some superstars.
Either the AFL is not able to do this, or they are not as good at it.
Also, on a different point, the Victorian private school system is effectively an AFL academy, and if the AFL put as much time effort and cash into the public school system we would be able to increase the talent pool even further.
All which risk him going elsewhere… trading up is no guarantee, trading after a few years is also no guarantee… so yes, re read my post.
Here are his highlights from his third season In 2007 as a 21yo…. Bloody hell he was a freakish talent… and according to mark Thompson he did the absolute bare minimum all the time at training the. Went home… we never even scratched the surface
Caligo
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Yet another in that long line of breathtaking talents that we never got to see the best of. I went to school with a kid selected to train with the under 18 Australian schoolboys rugby team when he was 13. Due to consecutive injuries at 15 and 16 (playing against men) he was forced to stop playing any contact sport.
The world isn't always fair.
Gee whiz. Hard to believe that's the same Nathan Ablett that played for the Suns five years later and showed next to nothing at the top level in his two appearances during what should have been his physical prime at 26 years of age. Been fortunate enough to spend a bit of time with Nath while he was up here and I never got the impression he was overly passionate about footy. In fact, he always seemed far more interested in basketball. Classic example of a guy that had all the talent, physical attributes and athleticism you could hope to be blessed with but just didn't want it anywhere near as much his peers in the AFL. Weirdly I think he's completely content with his four years in the AFL which included 34 games and a premiership medallion. When he left Geelong and moved to the Gold Coast in 2009, I don't think he had any intention of returning to the top level but things just kind of fell into place with his brother Gary and Nath gave it a go for a year.
No doubt some will forever view Nathan Ablett as a talent that was lost to the game but you can't force a guy to want it. He has to want it himself and Nathan clearly didn't so it wouldn't have mattered what anyone did. FWIW he's been playing some local reserves footy on the Gold Coast over the last few years and I think that's more suited to his preferred pace of life.
AFL probes Ebert f/s draft
:eek: The Age 29/7 Russell Ebert, left, in his time with North Melbourne, and his son Brett, at Port Power. The AFL is investigating whether Port Adelaide player Brett Ebert was wrongly allowed to be drafted by the Power under the father-son rule. Ebert is the son of former Port...
www.bigfooty.com
Try again
Doesn't matter, you only need 1 in a 100 - a Nick Daicos or Gary Ablett - to get a huge advantage. And if you get a couple at the same time, as we have seen with Cats and Pies, you can build a team around them.
I get the father/son romanticism and it is probably a part of the game that we just have to tolerate but it is just one more thing that compromises drafting to the stage where the original intent of the draft has lost all credibility.
Lol, nobody has built an entire team around father sons because nobody has had that many quality ones at once to do it.
Geelong did not build an entire team around Scarlett and ablett and collingwood have not built an entire team around daicos and Moore either. You don’t build an entire premiership team around 2-3 players.
Caligo
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Three elite players is absolutely enough to build a team around. Both Geelong and Collingwood had 3 elite father sons in their 2007 and 2023 flags, although one of those elite talents never reached his potential (N.Ablett).
Put three extra elite players on the list of any club in the top 10 and they become flag favourites for 2024.
The thing is that we paid fair value for Moore, pick 9, and J.Daicos a pick in the 50s...in his draft year Brown was the higher rated F-S.
It is really the current option where clubs just trade out a first round pick for a glut of 3rd rounders that is the problem.
So tweak the rules, if a bid comes in top5 you cant match with 4 3rd rounders...you need a top 10 pick at a minimum.
Caligo
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Did Collingwood have pick 9? Weren't they a finalist in 2013?
2014 was the year, and that was our allocated draft selection. The Bulldogs bid at pick 6 and we had to match with our next available pick.
Caligo
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Did they bid at 6 and you had pick 9? That is quite a large jump. I wouldn't call it fair value, but it is certainly much closer to fair value than how you got Nick.
That is like saying if you have 3 top draft picks you should become a flag favorite. Doesn’t make sense.
These talks seem to make out geelong was handed elite players when they weren’t. We only had Scarlett and ablett in 07-09 and then only Scarlett in 2011 as Hawkins was borderline in and out of the team all season.
Again, ablett was a pick between 15-25 and Scarlett a pick in the late 40’s-50’s.
They only became elite once they turned up to geelong.
Nathan in 07 despite his immense talent was not elite by any stretch. Was just a developing kid.
Our premiership team was developed by elite drafting at the time. Very small fraction of it from elite father son recruits
Yes, that's correct. On the other hand, Sydney were able to match Melbourne's bid at 2 for Isaac Heeney as a grand finalist with pick 18.
The points system is flawed and needs fixing, but the premise of it is great I think and fixed situations like the above.
Yeah back in 2014 the F/S was done early, it was actually pick5 and pick8, as the F/S was done before Melbourne received FA compo for Frawley that moved all the picks down.
Darcy Moore (Oakleigh Chargers, son of Peter Moore, 172 games for Collingwood) – Collingwood, Round One (currently number eight). The Western Bulldogs bid their Round One selection (currently number five) and this was matched by Collingwood with its next selection in Round One (currently number eight). Collinwood is now bound to select Moore at the 2014 NAB AFL Draft with its round one selection.
Caligo
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It doesn't take much to turn an average side into an elite side. Just getting single a free consensus pick 1 or a pair of late first rounders for not much has a pretty big impact.
How many elite years of football did you get from just Hawkins alone?
The competition is designed to be pretty even. It doesn't take much to unbalance it.
Then again, I also think the f/s talent you got isn't so different to the priority pick talent a club like mine got around the same time. It does kinda balance out, but it is still significant. There are so many swings and roundabouts. What I don't like about the North compo and PP package is that, unlike in previous eras, they are the only ones in a footy state to get it.
Caligo
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You won't get argument from me. I strongly desire some basic tweaks to make it a bit fairer. Standard stuff others have spoken about (raising the points value of top 5 picks, requiring one matching pick to be close to the bid pick, limiting the number of picks used, reducing the discount, giving father son clubs first right of refusal on players also academy eligible).
Caligo
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Yeah. Hard to remember back that far. Appreciate the response.
No problems, a not sure how that aint fair value?
3 draft spots.
Like if you were trading and a club wanted a top 10 pick, if you have pick 8 instead of pick 6...both fit the bill and get the trade done.
Moore was a highly rated kid, and we coughed up our pick 8 to secure him.
That is what fans would want, and much better than current scenario where Pies know Moore is coming so we trade out our first and second round pick to get a glut of 3rd round picks in the 40s.
My suggestion is to still use the draft index, but limit it to only 2 draft picks to match....and reduce the points discount from 20% to 10%.
So Daicos example, bid comes at pick 4 (2034 points). Pies need to find 1830 points to match.
Can only use 2 draft picks to match. We could go picks 6 and 65, or go picks 19 and 21
That makes it more palatable to other fans that they are giving up something decent instead of 4 picks in the 40s.
Caligo
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Jumping 3 spots into the top 5 isn't a small amount. Clubs have paid first rounders for that before. Just because it isn't as egregious as what JUH or NDaicos cost doesn't mean it is fair value either.
I agree with the rest of your post though. There is absolutely tweaking we can do like you suggested.
I strongly disagree with geelong. a large chunk of our 4 premiership sides were second and third round quality junior players and even rookie selections.
I think your statements are a bit of an attempt to pull the rug from underneath our recruitment team and the fantastic job Stephen wells had done.
Just in our 22 flag we had the following:
Brad close- rookie
Blicavs- category B rookie
Stengle- delisted free agent
Jack Henry- rookie draft
Tom Atkins- rookie draft.
Zac Guthrie- rookie draft
gryan miers - pick 50
Jake kolo- pick 40ish
Tom Stewart- mature age pick 40ish
Jed bews- 5th round draft pick F/S
That is very elite recruiting
Spot on. Just from Collingwood, I can count off the top of my cranium. Brayden Shaw. Paul Tuddenham , Will Kelly , Callum Brown , Tyler Brown , then those who Collingwood chose not to choose under the F/S but other clubs did , James Stewart.
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