Opinion Is Our Flag Window Shut?

[Daemon]

Probably a bit of both. Alan Richardson was asked about it last week and said that sometimes we prefer to kick to a pack and let the crumbers go to work than try to hit up a perfect lead just to get intercepted.

What a load of crap. So we don't trust our forwards on the lead to mark it? Fritsch is fantastic on the lead.

 

[Topkent]

What a load of crap. So we don't trust our forwards on the lead to mark it? Fritsch is fantastic on the lead.

Yeah it's insane. It's also the purest shot because it's a set shot.

 

[Lampers]

Probably a bit of both. Alan Richardson was asked about it last week and said that sometimes we prefer to kick to a pack and let the crumbers go to work than try to hit up a perfect lead just to get intercepted.

While it sounds bizarre, I think it means they don’t want to try for the perfect kick to a leading forward when the opposition backline is setup. It is probably a very low percentage for either ball retention or scoring and high percentage for an intercept and getting hurt on the rebound.

The bomb to a pack, if the opposition’s backline is setup, is probably the better option based on analytics.

I doubt Richardson means that the intention is a leading forward in space on a shortish kick would be ignored and a bomb to a pack favoured.

It’s also like the bomb into the forward pocket. That’s all about analytics, generating repeat forward 50s and protecting against a slingshot rather than trying to score on that specific F50 entry. It’s also about giving Melbourne’s back half players time to setup properly.

It’s frustrating to watch but I bet decades of data say it’s the better option in the long run.

 

[Topkent]

While it sounds bizarre, I think it means they don’t want to try for the perfect kick to a leading forward when the opposition backline is setup. It is probably a very low percentage for either ball retention or scoring and high percentage for an intercept and getting hurt on the rebound.

The bomb to a pack, if the opposition’s backline is setup, is probably the better option based on analytics.

I doubt Richardson means that the intention is a leading forward in space on a shortish kick would be ignored and a bomb to a pack favoured.

It’s also like the bomb into the forward pocket. That’s all about analytics, generating repeat forward 50s and protecting against a slingshot rather than trying to score on that specific F50 entry. It’s also about giving Melbourne’s back half players time to setup properly.

It’s frustrating to watch but I bet decades of data say it’s the better option in the long run.

You don't have to hit a perfect kick or bomb to a pack, you can put It to the advantage of the forward to jump at. Kicking it 50m in the air is just a bullshit cop out

 

[Lampers]

You don't have to hit a perfect kick or bomb to a pack, you can put It to the advantage of the forward to jump at. Kicking it 50m in the air is just a bullshit cop out

I’m just guessing again, but it doesn’t take much decision making smarts or skill to kick it long to a pack. It’s pretty easy to execute and ‘get it right’. It’s predictable (both for Melbourne and the opposition) and it gives Melbourne’s small forwards a few seconds to setup for a crumb.

Kicking to the advantage of a forward however does need more decision making smarts and skill to execute. I know they are professional players and should be good at it, but how many of Melbourne’s players have the combination of smarts and skills to execute it consistently?

I don’t like watching it, but I’m trying to guess why they’d do what Richardson said.

It’s similar to how analytics has (IMO) ruined NBA as a spectacle. Big parts of what was the game basically lost because analytics say they are lower percentage in the long run than shooting endless 3s and driving through minimal defense because everyone is out trying to defend 3s.

 

[Squarky]

My fear with this team is the way we are playing, all preseason we thought that they've realised you need to move the ball quickly and through the corridor to challenge, now it seems we've reverted to a slow game style. If we lose on Monday playing slow, I just don't think we have enough time to adjust this year to win it.

Rather than making a choice to "play slow", I think it's more likely that teams have tightened up their defence in general. I'm not a good enough tactical watcher of footy to know exactly what our preferred movement is, but whatever it is, opposition sides have gotten better at taking it away from us.

Before we go all Henny Penny, this is what happens every year. Good sides (like us) win games, upcoming opposition teams look at ways to stop them.

We need to:

1. find ways to move the ball quicker (and therefore solve our 'bombing' F50 entries problem)
2. stay fit enough through the second half of the year that we can grind our opponents into the dirt when needed

Hopefully both. Re: the latter, I'm pretty confident about our fitness this year. And with Lever freed up as 3rd tall, a fit Salem (don't forget how important he was in '21), and Trac/Clarry not battling injuries, we've got a chance to do the former.

Gawn finding his set shot kicking boots would help, too. I'm convinced we only need Roo and Gawn/Grundy as genuine tall forwards. Fritta & Smith can play medium, and our smalls are good.

 

[Topkent]

I’m just guessing again, but it doesn’t take much decision making smarts or skill to kick it long to a pack. It’s pretty easy to execute and ‘get it right’. It’s predictable (both for Melbourne and the opposition) and it gives Melbourne’s small forwards a few seconds to setup for a crumb.

Kicking to the advantage of a forward however does need more decision making smarts and skill to execute. I know they are professional players and should be good at it, but how many of Melbourne’s players have the combination of smarts and skills to execute it consistently?

I don’t like watching it, but I’m trying to guess why they’d do what Richardson said.

It’s similar to how analytics has (IMO) ruined NBA as a spectacle. Big parts of what was the game basically lost because analytics say they are lower percentage in the long run than shooting endless 3s and driving through minimal defense because everyone is out trying to defend 3s.

Like I said mate it doesn't take much skill to kick to the forwards advantage, you can still loft the kick and go long. But identify which side the forward is leading and kick it there. Dumping it long to the square where the opposition is also expecting it is just rubbish. Second half of the GF we were kicking to advantage, Harmes kick to Fritsch which turned the GF wasn't some magic kick but it was to his advantage. It's why every single one of our forwards sucks and why we can't beat top 6 teams, top 6 teams have great defences.

Ask yourself would you rather teams kick it to the lead against us or bomb it long to May Lever and Gawn. I know what I'd prefer

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Clearly hes still talking about Goody's "lock it in our F50 for repeat stoppage" garbage. That is why we do it. Kick to a high number pack situation with lots of people around the ball. Scared of turning the ball over and getting hurt on rebound.

The theory sounds fine in practice, but (IIRC) no other team is worse than we are at conceding scores from D50 stoppages. IF ONLY WE COULD PLAY OURSELVES EVERY WEEK, wed be onto a winning strategy. As it is. Its predictable and dumb. Teams have seen it so many times already from us. They know its coming. Good teams will kill predictability and its a good part of the reason why we struggle to beat and score against good teams.

 

[Johnny Karate]

It’s all fine to kick to a pack and halve a contest with the theory that our crumbers will go to work. But, Jesus was probably in short pants the last time a Melbourne small forward was sighted front and square.

This article, while having a few distinct flaws does highlight some of our connection issues: Footy Fix: The Blues are rubbish, but the Dees were just as bad - and four images perfectly sum up why

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

It’s all fine to kick to a pack and halve a contest with the theory that our crumbers will go to work. But, Jesus was probably in short pants the last time a Melbourne small forward was sighted front and square.

This article, while having a few distinct flaws does highlight some of our connection issues: Footy Fix: The Blues are rubbish, but the Dees were just as bad - and four images perfectly sum up why

Thats a really good article.

 

[Daemon]

Thats a really good article.

The frustration is palpable and sums it up pretty good I think.

 

[The Dr]

It’s all fine to kick to a pack and halve a contest with the theory that our crumbers will go to work. But, Jesus was probably in short pants the last time a Melbourne small forward was sighted front and square.

This article, while having a few distinct flaws does highlight some of our connection issues: Footy Fix: The Blues are rubbish, but the Dees were just as bad - and four images perfectly sum up why

That's a fantastic article


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Bluelegs]

What a load of crap. So we don't trust our forwards on the lead to mark it? Fritsch is fantastic on the lead.

IIRC he said it was a balance I'd post the interview if I could find it. Was on the SEN pregrame last Friday.

 

[Bluelegs]

IIRC he said it was a balance I'd post the interview if I could find it. Was on the SEN pregrame last Friday.

Managed to find it go to 38:50 for Richo. Foward entry question at 41.50

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[netslave]

great article, best part for me:

"that both Smith and van Rooyen are doing basically the same thing suggests to me that it’s a coaching thing, that the instruction is for them to play this way from Simon Goodwin

Simon Goodwin

Age

47

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

and Demons forwards coach Greg Stafford

Greg Stafford

Age

50

Ht

204cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.3

3star

HO

11.7

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.2

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.2

4star

HO

5.8

5star

. I’m baffled as to why."

Good to see others outside the club picking up on our deficiencies and where they originate from.

 

[Crusty Demon]

great article, best part for me:

"that both Smith and van Rooyen are doing basically the same thing suggests to me that it’s a coaching thing, that the instruction is for them to play this way from Simon Goodwin and Demons forwards coach Greg Stafford. I’m baffled as to why."

Good to see others outside the club picking up on our deficiencies and where they originate from.

Surely we can find a decent forward coach? Throw money at Jack Reiwoldt. I reckon he'd be a great forward coach.

 

[Lord Nev]

For balance...

The Demons are on track for premiership glory - they just need everything to click

 

[Pickitt]

I like to think we're good at football

 

[Lord Nev]

 

[Johnny Karate]

I know we’ve had our differences and I still have some scepticism but nothing would make me more pleased than you flaming this thread and dishing out virtual crotch chops in here for the next 3 and a bit months.

If we were cleaner in front of the sticks we would have dusted them by 20-40 points.

 

[demondavey]

What’s better about today is we should have won by 50

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Ill take being wrong 100 times out of 100. Zero ****s given. Rub it in my face if we win a flag

 

[Lord Nev]

I know we’ve had our differences and I still have some scepticism but nothing would make me more pleased than you flaming this thread and dishing out virtual crotch chops in here for the next 3 and a bit months.

If we were cleaner in front of the sticks we would have dusted them by 20-40 points.

Worried about the goal kicking still, but at least we've finally knocked off a good team.

 

[Topkent]

Goal kicking ebbs and flows but if we defend like that every game we can beat anyone. Upside in that Gawn, Oliver, Trac, Lever and Langdon were meh to didn't play. First big game we've won in a long time where the bottom 10 of the team carried us

 

[Bluelegs]

Goal kicking ebbs and flows but if we defend like that every game we can beat anyone. Upside in that Gawn, Oliver, Trac, Lever and Langdon were meh to didn't play. First big game we've won in a long time where the bottom 10 of the team carried us

Pretty comfortable in saying its our best win since the flag.