Opinion Is this where Carlton drops away? 2023 version

[adammania9]

The decision to trade Setterfield and replace his spot in the side with a geriatric Ed Curnow is a serious blunder. We saw in the last two rounds last year what Setterfield was capable of when played as an inside mid rather than being pigeon-holed onto a wing. He should be in the guts working hard both ways and winning the pill, instead they have Walsh sitting at the bottom of packs trying to win it and wasting his running ability. Setterfield is a better midfielder than Kennedy.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

We'll win 2 - 4 more games for the entire year and give the bottom four a serious run for their money.

vs Bulldogs - L
vs Collingwood - L
vs Sydney - L
vs Melbourne - L
vs Essendon - L
vs Gold Coast - L
vs Hawthorn - W
vs Fremantle - 50/50
vs Port Adelaide - L
vs West Coast - W
vs Collingwood - L
vs St. Kilda - L
vs Gold Coast - L
vs GWS - 50/50

Haha, Carlton aren’t gonna win the flag but Jesus H Christ, they’ll win more than that.

Brisbane are a good side and a contender, not like they lost to West Coast or something.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

The decision to trade Setterfield and replace his spot in the side with a geriatric Ed Curnow is a serious blunder. We saw in the last two rounds last year what Setterfield was capable of when played as an inside mid rather than being pigeon-holed onto a wing. He should be in the guts working hard both ways and winning the pill, instead they have Walsh sitting at the bottom of packs trying to win it and wasting his running ability. Setterfield is a better midfielder than Kennedy.

Ed is playing on the HFF. A blunder in itself but not a reason for Setters leaving. Cripps and Kennedy are better inside mids, we also had Hewett coming off a career best year as an inside extractor. He was offered a contract at Carlton but left for opportunity and is so far grabbing it with both hands. It’s good to see him playing every week.

However I think the last thing we need in the side right now is a slow inside mid with limited foot skills.

 

[Arr0w]

The decision to trade Setterfield and replace his spot in the side with a geriatric Ed Curnow is a serious blunder. We saw in the last two rounds last year what Setterfield was capable of when played as an inside mid rather than being pigeon-holed onto a wing. He should be in the guts working hard both ways and winning the pill, instead they have Walsh sitting at the bottom of packs trying to win it and wasting his running ability. Setterfield is a better midfielder than Kennedy.

Not as clear cut as that. What Setters could get with other clubs, with more cap and more needs based was completely different at Carlton

 

[Rich01]

Ed is playing on the HFF. A blunder in itself but not a reason for Setters leaving. Cripps and Kennedy are better inside mids, we also had Hewett coming off a career best year as an inside extractor. He was offered a contract at Carlton but left for opportunity and is so far grabbing it with both hands. It’s good to see him playing every week.

However I think the last thing we need in the side right now is a slow inside mid with limited foot skills.

Yep, it was a tough call to get rid of him but the right one. At the blues he should have been playing in the midfield only with injury to their best grunt mids. A good depth player.

At the Bombers he’s best 22.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Not as clear cut as that. What Setters could get with other clubs, with more cap and more needs based was completely different at Carlton

Agreed. His big body and attributes are ideal for the Dons whose clever mids are on the light side. While not as big, Hewett’s better disposal and footy IQ had him well ahead IMO for Carlton’s needs.

* Admit to bias as I am still a huge admirer of George

 

[Rod Stroker]

You'd hate to be Carlton. Win last week by 100 points on the road, lose this week and now all and sundry in the media are belting them.

Said if before and I'll say it again; they shot themselves in the foot and have sent the club backwards by appointing Voss. Should have just given it to Ross. Lyon coaching that list is a scary proposition.

 

[Arr0w]

Agreed. His big body and attributes are ideal for the Dons whose clever mids are on the light side. While not as big, Hewett’s better disposal and footy IQ had him well ahead IMO for Carlton’s needs.

* Admit to bias as I am still a huge admirer of George

Yeap, you just can't compete with certain offers

Mumford was offered a better deal by the Swans, than the Cats could afford

Plenty of similar cases over the last decade

 

[Chief]

Win last week by 100 points on the road

Against West Coast. Nobody was pumping them up based on that alone.

 

[GC2015]

Has anyone considered that they may have committed too much money to their big guns (Cripps, Walsh, C.Curnow, McKay, Weitering) and now they are handcuffed from a salary cap perspective which is seriously affecting their list depth?

 

[Arr0w]

Has anyone considered that they may have committed too much money to their big guns (Cripps, Walsh, C.Curnow, McKay, Weitering) and now they are handcuffed from a salary cap perspective which is seriously affecting their list depth?

By all accounts, we were a little tight this year, but will free up some coin end of season

Certainly not in the relms of offloading a Bowes and a 1st rounder, or a Grundy/Treloar situation

 

[bourbons]

The decision to trade Setterfield and replace his spot in the side with a geriatric Ed Curnow is a serious blunder. We saw in the last two rounds last year what Setterfield was capable of when played as an inside mid rather than being pigeon-holed onto a wing. He should be in the guts working hard both ways and winning the pill, instead they have Walsh sitting at the bottom of packs trying to win it and wasting his running ability. Setterfield is a better midfielder than Kennedy.

Found the Stocker delisting more perplexing to be honest. How he got the arse but Plowman still remains on the list is mind boggling

 

[bourbons]

Anyway, dunno about 'dropping away' - we've been 'dropped' all season, just flattered by the draw early.

 

[Rich01]

Found the Stocker delisting more perplexing to be honest. How he got the arse but Plowman still remains on the list is mind boggling

Tend to agree. But a couple of Carlton ITK posters at the time suggested he had some issues with the playing group, hence the decision was made. If it was for team cohesion, regardless of the results so far this year, it’s understandable.

 

[beema limapep]

I've got them winning 6 of the remaining 14.

Will be 10 wins 1 draw 12 losses.

They need to find 2-3 more wins somewhere to scrape into the 8 in a 23 round season.

If they drop 4 of the next 5 they'll be 5 wins from 13 needing to win 7 or 8 of their last 9. That's highly unlikely.

 

[carlton_99]

The decision to trade Setterfield and replace his spot in the side with a geriatric Ed Curnow is a serious blunder. We saw in the last two rounds last year what Setterfield was capable of when played as an inside mid rather than being pigeon-holed onto a wing. He should be in the guts working hard both ways and winning the pill, instead they have Walsh sitting at the bottom of packs trying to win it and wasting his running ability. Setterfield is a better midfielder than Kennedy.

Ed is playing as a HFF not a mid which in itself is wrong. Kennedy is a much better player than Setterfield imo - not only as a mid but also has the ability to go forward. Would love the Blues to swap Ed out for Kennedy and play him 50/50 forward/midfield. Setterfield looked good in the last 2 games last year because 3 of our starting mids were out in both games - he does not fit in our best 22 and considering he was uncontracted he was free to leave

 

[carlton_99]

Found the Stocker delisting more perplexing to be honest. How he got the arse but Plowman still remains on the list is mind boggling

Stocker was uncontracted, whilst Plowman was contracted.
Neither are in the best 25 players in the team and plus we have heaps of players that play the same role Stocker does (i.e., Docherty, Saad, Williams, Newman, Boyd, Cowan, Cincotta etc)

 

[LoungeLizard]

The commentary at the 57 second mark of the 2nd vid is my favorite bit.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

The commentary at the 57 second mark of the 2nd vid is my favorite bit.

Can’t believe you even clicked on a Will Setterfield highlights video and then watched 57 seconds of them. Respect.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

The decision to trade Setterfield and replace his spot in the side with a geriatric Ed Curnow is a serious blunder. We saw in the last two rounds last year what Setterfield was capable of when played as an inside mid rather than being pigeon-holed onto a wing. He should be in the guts working hard both ways and winning the pill, instead they have Walsh sitting at the bottom of packs trying to win it and wasting his running ability. Setterfield is a better midfielder than Kennedy.

Got halfway through the 2nd sentence of this and gave up.
Setterfield's "spot" in the side (21 games out of 44) was not replaced by Curnow.
There's actually no room for either of them in the current side. Setterfield got games last year due to injuries. He was not in the best side. He doesn't play ahead of Cripps, Walsh, Hewett, Cerra, Kennedy or Acres in any of the midfield/wing spots. Then you have Doc who has spent time in the middle and looks more capable than Setters and Hollands who looks the goods and busts a gut on the other wing.
Ed shouldn't be playing. We moved past him last year. He's been lucky to get some early games this year, but should've been dropped a few weeks ago and is a liability.

If Setters was still on the list and we couldn't field a few of the aforementioned players, I'd still play Dow (barely) or Carroll ahead of him. Cottrell too. I'd even debut Binns, who has been killing it in the VFL, or shift Cincotta up the ground before playing Will.
I'm happy to see him getting opportunity and doing well, but after a fast start at Essendon, he's starting to come back. 16 disposals and no clearances in his last outing. 19disp, 1 tackle, 5 clangers before that. I'm tipping Essendon supporters will start getting sick of him fairly soon.

Alright, while typing this, I ventured a little further into your musings... "He should be in the guts working hard both ways"... almost spat my beer out. Working hard both ways?!?!

Better than Kennedy?!?!
Even with 2 games as the sub, and 1 game playing an unfamiliar role off half back due to injuries, ANNND with Setterfield having a career best flying start, their numbers this year aren't too far apart.

Anyway, back to the premise of the thread, we've been playing poorly all year so far and still managed to squeeze out enough wins to stay top 8 for now.
Barely a third of the way through the season and doubtful we continue to play this poorly all year, so who knows?

 

[adammania9]

Got halfway through the 2nd sentence of this and gave up.
Setterfield's "spot" in the side (21 games out of 44) was not replaced by Curnow.
There's actually no room for either of them in the current side. Setterfield got games last year due to injuries. He was not in the best side. He doesn't play ahead of Cripps, Walsh, Hewett, Cerra, Kennedy or Acres in any of the midfield/wing spots. Then you have Doc who has spent time in the middle and looks more capable than Setters and Hollands who looks the goods and busts a gut on the other wing.
Ed shouldn't be playing. We moved past him last year. He's been lucky to get some early games this year, but should've been dropped a few weeks ago and is a liability.

If Setters was still on the list and we couldn't field a few of the aforementioned players, I'd still play Dow (barely) or Carroll ahead of him. Cottrell too. I'd even debut Binns, who has been killing it in the VFL, or shift Cincotta up the ground before playing Will.
I'm happy to see him getting opportunity and doing well, but after a fast start at Essendon, he's starting to come back. 16 disposals and no clearances in his last outing. 19disp, 1 tackle, 5 clangers before that. I'm tipping Essendon supporters will start getting sick of him fairly soon.

Alright, while typing this, I ventured a little further into your musings... "He should be in the guts working hard both ways"... almost spat my beer out. Working hard both ways?!?!

Better than Kennedy?!?!
Even with 2 games as the sub, and 1 game playing an unfamiliar role off half back due to injuries, ANNND with Setterfield having a career best flying start, their numbers this year aren't too far apart.

Anyway, back to the premise of the thread, we've been playing poorly all year so far and still managed to squeeze out enough wins to stay top 8 for now.
Barely a third of the way through the season and doubtful we continue to play this poorly all year, so who knows?

Staggering that Carlton fans continue to rate Kennedy, a bloke who is your fifth best midfielder but is lazy, offers little to nothing defensively, offers no more scoreboard impact than any other bang average mid going around. Setterfield is a better supporting mid and is happier to get his hands dirty and form cohesion with his teammates. I have no doubt if you swapped Kennedy for Setters this weekend, your midfield would improve as a result. Kennedy wouldn't be starting sub in a bottom 10 side if he was any good.

That you'd play Dow ahead of Setterfield is a commentary on your football knowledge, not mine. I don't even need to elaborate. It is obviously a terrible opinion. Not sure why you'd compare an insider in Setterfield to wingers like Cottrell and Binns? Apples and oranges.

No room for Ed Curnow or Setterfield? Well Curnow has played every single game so far, and you have no injured midfielders and only Jack Martin missing from your best forward mix. So perhaps he is best 22. Vossy seems to think so.

Anyway, back to the premise of this thread. There's little to nothing to suggest Carlton will improve on what we've seen so far this year, which is a diabolical game plan operated by a consistently poor coach leading a prime age squad with terrible depth.

 

[Mr Meow]

We'll win 2 - 4 more games for the entire year and give the bottom four a serious run for their money.

vs Bulldogs - L
vs Collingwood - L
vs Sydney - L
vs Melbourne - L
vs Essendon - L
vs Gold Coast - L
vs Hawthorn - W
vs Fremantle - 50/50
vs Port Adelaide - L
vs West Coast - W
vs Collingwood - L
vs St. Kilda - L
vs Gold Coast - L
vs GWS - 50/50

Will win one of the next 4, beat Essendon, beat Gold Coast twice, GWS, possibly Freo and one of Port or St Kilda. 12 or 13 wins I reckon, borderline finals.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Staggering that Carlton fans continue to rate Kennedy, a bloke who is your fifth best midfielder but is lazy, offers little to nothing defensively, offers no more scoreboard impact than any other bang average mid going around. Setterfield is a better supporting mid and is happier to get his hands dirty and form cohesion with his teammates. I have no doubt if you swapped Kennedy for Setters this weekend, your midfield would improve as a result. Kennedy wouldn't be starting sub in a bottom 10 side if he was any good.

That you'd play Dow ahead of Setterfield is a commentary on your football knowledge, not mine. I don't even need to elaborate. It is obviously a terrible opinion. Not sure why you'd compare an insider in Setterfield to wingers like Cottrell and Binns? Apples and oranges.

No room for Ed Curnow or Setterfield? Well Curnow has played every single game so far, and you have no injured midfielders and only Jack Martin missing from your best forward mix. So perhaps he is best 22. Vossy seems to think so.

Anyway, back to the premise of this thread. There's little to nothing to suggest Carlton will improve on what we've seen so far this year, which is a diabolical game plan operated by a consistently poor coach leading a prime age squad with terrible depth.

Rate Kennedy? By thinking he's better than Setterfield? Preferring Carlton's 5th best mid over Essendon's 5th best mid isn't much of a stretch. At worst, they are both very similar and just good, average players, but they're the 5th best mids for their respective sides, so I'm not sure what you're expecting.

As for Dow, I did say barely. It's hard to compare them, as both have played sparingly over their careers and the form of both has been patchy. When Dow was playing consistently, he was only 18/19yo and in a very poor side. He's still only 23yo and I think he has a higher ceiling than Setters, but not sure he's ever going to reach it. Won't be the 1st or last to have that happen.

I compared him to wingers (which I clearly stated) because I was just throwing ALL midfield spots in the mix to highlight how far down the order he was. And, rightly or wrongly (it was wrongly), he spent a reasonable amount of time on a wing for us when our inside roles were filled and our wings were light on.

Yes, Ed is getting games (again, something I already stated), but he shouldn't be. Again, it's not the 1st or last time a team has made poor selection choices. He hasn't been good (maybe 1 or 2 games). He's made some terrible decisions and costly turnovers. The fact that he was kept in the side after 5 disposals, 2 marks and 1 tackle in nearly 80mins of game time, while dropping Kennedy from the same game, when he played an unfamiliar role off halfback due to injuries to Doc and Saad, while getting 21 disposals at 86% , 8 marks, 5 intercepts, 5 score involvements just highlights the poor selection choices.
The fact that one has played every game, while the other has been the sub the last 2 games, has nothing to do with how good either of them are playing. It's simply a really poor decision by the selection committee.

 

[bourbons]

Staggering that Carlton fans continue to rate Kennedy, a bloke who is your fifth best midfielder but is lazy, offers little to nothing defensively, offers no more scoreboard impact than any other bang average mid going around. Setterfield is a better supporting mid and is happier to get his hands dirty and form cohesion with his teammates. I have no doubt if you swapped Kennedy for Setters this weekend, your midfield would improve as a result. Kennedy wouldn't be starting sub in a bottom 10 side if he was any good.

That you'd play Dow ahead of Setterfield is a commentary on your football knowledge, not mine. I don't even need to elaborate. It is obviously a terrible opinion. Not sure why you'd compare an insider in Setterfield to wingers like Cottrell and Binns? Apples and oranges.

No room for Ed Curnow or Setterfield? Well Curnow has played every single game so far, and you have no injured midfielders and only Jack Martin missing from your best forward mix. So perhaps he is best 22. Vossy seems to think so.

Anyway, back to the premise of this thread. There's little to nothing to suggest Carlton will improve on what we've seen so far this year, which is a diabolical game plan operated by a consistently poor coach leading a prime age squad with terrible depth.

You thought Setters was better than Kennedy last year?

lol

 

[flamethrower]

Carlton have their uber bunnies this week - Cripps will have 50+, and Curnow at least 8 goals. Beveridge refuses to tag and Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

can't cover Curnow AND McKay.