Opinion Is this where Carlton drops away? 2023 version

[Django]

They really need and should be making finals this year. The list is definitely good enough to do that. It doesn't seem to have much depth, but there is enough quality to get to finals.

Perhaps Voss is a poor coach. Blues fans probably know more than me, and have stronger opinions. Who do you replace him with? On paper they should be better, but then again it's just names on a board. These guys have never been successful in their careers, so once again, it's just names on a board.

It feels like the Blues have to stick with him though. Sacking him anytime this season might be the popular or bold choice, but if they get it wrong, they will just continue to scare away good footy people.

In hindsight, it looks like a mistake not getting Ross Lyon, but there is still plenty to be played out there with the Saints. (They were in a similar situation last year before it went belly up, and then they sacked Ratten). The Blues went with Voss and should back him in with support. He has only been there for about 30 games, even if the list appears to be capable of much better.

I think the Blues need to look at getting more people in to support Voss. Restructure the coaches around him, poach a few assistants from elsewhere. I would look at Shaun Grigg from Geelong among others. (I would like the Tigers to bring him in as well). I'm not well versed in what shape the board is in, but that also needs to be in harmony with the footy department.

It will be a fail if they miss the finals this year. Previously I would have said they should sack Voss in the event of that happening, but I don't think they have that much of a choice. They need to back him in at least until next year.

 

[TheBlue]

Voss can't coach
Ratten can't coach
Bolton can't coach
Pagan can't coach
Teague can't coach
Brittain can't coach

At what point do they accept that maybe the problem lies elsewhere..

Or failing that, they could poach Hinkley.

It is probably worth mentioning that none of those blokes have ever demonstrated they were good head coaches at any other club or at any point in their career. The obvious exceptions are Malthouse - who the general consensus seems to indicate was never taking up the role at Carlton for the right reasons - and Pagan.

Pagan is the interesting one as he was obviously a great coach at North Melbourne and has since commented (as recently as 2022) on how terrible it was working at Carlton due to the lacklustre administration, poor working environment and the effect of the salary cap breaches. I think those comments certainly indicate that the problem lies elsewhere (or at least that the club was generally in disarray back in 2007, and any coach was going to struggle at Carlton).

In respect of everyone, else I think a decent argument can be made that Carlton did pick the wrong head coach. Of course, Carlton's problems have never started nor ended with just the head coach and, in any event, it begs the question why Carlton picked those coaches in the first place? Recent comments about why we didn't pick Ross Lyon again seem to suggest there's disunity at the board level.

 

[WilloTree]

Today aside, he's actually been a shining light this season.

He certainly wasn't the worst yesterday either. Not a great game but there are a few ahead of him who need a stint in the 2s. eg, I love Jesse but my Gods, he's completely lost out there. Desperately needs guidance. How Silvagni keeps getting games is beyond me. Genuinely hopeless.

 

[blueiris]

The players need to actually accept some of the Blame for how they are performing especially on the big stage Voss is actually a good coach got the Lions to finals and just missing before he was sacked for a Savior in Roos that didn’t come actually one of the worst decisions the club made

 

[LoungeLizard]

Carlton just left the 8.

Took until rd 23 last year after they choked the last 4 rounds, can they get back in?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

No doubt some bath water was drunk by Blues fans and Oppo fans are sinking the boots in.

Carlton are pretty much where I predicted, perhaps just a little worse. I reckon two key players in Cripps and Hewett are both affected by chronic back injuries. They have lost penetration with their kicks and George clearly prefers to handball ( awful to see as he is usually a great kick off either foot)

The problem is not the Coach but the misshapen list. They have some absolute A Graders but just as many C Graders run out in the team. They may need to sacrifice a couple of highly paid A Graders and get 3 or 4B+ types as well dump some of the failed Trades.

This is not a rebuild but a little reset. This is what I believe Voss will do.

 

[Arr0w]

Carlton just left the 8.

Took until rd 23 last year after they choked the last 4 rounds, can they get back in?

That choking thingie is bad

 

[Blue1980]

No doubt some bath water was drunk by Blues fans and Oppo fans are sinking the boots in.

Carlton are pretty much where I predicted, perhaps just a little worse. I reckon two key players in Cripps and Hewett are both affected by chronic back injuries. They have lost penetration with their kicks and George clearly prefers to handball ( awful to see as he is usually a great kick off either foot)

The problem is not the Coach but the misshapen list. They have some absolute A Graders but just as many C Graders run out in the team. They may need to sacrifice a couple of highly paid A Graders and get 3 or 4B+ types as well dump some of the failed Trades.

This is not a rebuild but a little reset. This is what I believe Voss will do.

Yep and we all deserve it. We’d do it to other clubs and I am sure we will in future.

We have been gaslit as a supporter base.

 

[demondavey]

Crows and swans you’d back to finish ahead of us based on what we have seen so far.

Essendon and Freo I don’t really see how anyone could claim we definitely better than either, Richmond could get on a bit of a run, and GWS and GC have both looked ok at times.

There is only 3 sides I would say with complete confidence we are better than. I gave us pegged to finish 11th or 12th.

It’s going to be pretty damning for Carlton if Adelaide make the 8 ahead of them. Essendon definitely won’t.

 

[demondavey]

Has anyone considered that they may have committed too much money to their big guns (Cripps, Walsh, C.Curnow, McKay, Weitering) and now they are handcuffed from a salary cap perspective which is seriously affecting their list depth?

It’s Carlton. It’s what they do. Offer the farm to a few players and expect the rest to just play along. Carlton has always been about money.

 

[Fadge]

Has anyone considered that they may have committed too much money to their big guns (Cripps, Walsh, C.Curnow, McKay, Weitering) and now they are handcuffed from a salary cap perspective which is seriously affecting their list depth?

Yes.

Multiple times.

Before the season started.

 

[demondavey]

Has anyone considered that they may have committed too much money to their big guns (Cripps, Walsh, C.Curnow, McKay, Weitering) and now they are handcuffed from a salary cap perspective which is seriously affecting their list depth?

They’re paying McKay to kick around the corner.

 

[tunksy]

2 coleman medallists and they haven't set up a game play to play to their strengths. Need to some handy role players around them.

A good midfield (on paper at least) that on its day is very very capable. target a number 1 ruck?

Weitering AA calibre full back - I feel this is where they're still lacking they need to be more dour when required. Mckay would be enticing but hes hardly gotten on the park for North.

 

[demondavey]

2 coleman medallists and they haven't set up a game play to play to their strengths. Need to some handy role players around them.

A good midfield (on paper at least) that on its day is very very capable. target a number 1 ruck?

Weitering AA calibre full back - I feel this is where they're still lacking they need to be more dour when required. Mckay would be enticing but hes hardly gotten on the park for North.

I reckon that’s all they’ve got, Weitering. Bloke is also having to work twice as hard down there seeing he is given away half his wages.

 

[tunksy]

I reckon that’s all they’ve got, Weitering. Bloke is also having to work twice as hard down there seeing he is given away half his wages.

Young is a 3rd tall defender. Mcgovern is over paid and hardly gotten on the park. Not sure there's many gettable targets that would immediately improve them in the back line. Not sure they have the money to throw around either.

Marchbank and Plowman again never on the park and just not very good.

 

[demondavey]

Young is a 3rd tall defender. Mcgovern is over paid and hardly gotten on the park. Not sure there's many gettable targets that would immediately improve them in the back line. Not sure they have the money to throw around either.

Marchbank and Plowman again never on the park and just not very good.

Marchbank was a really good player but is simply finished due to injury. McGoven has been the most overrated hack to secure an 800k contract (or anything north of 500k).

 

[demondavey]

I guess you can say the same about their Chris Judd venture. Offered a top 2 player in the game an enormous amount of money and just hoped everyone around him would step up.

It feels like the heat on Carlton is going to reach scorching levels if they lose to Collingwood this week.

Chris Judd at Carlton was an absolute failure. It was great for Judd, financially and for on field accolades, but a disaster for Carlton.

Well they’ll lose to Collingwood so I can’t see it getting easier.

 

[bourbons]

I guess you can say the same about their Chris Judd venture. Offered a top 2 player in the game an enormous amount of money and just hoped everyone around him would step up.

It feels like the heat on Carlton is going to reach scorching levels if they lose to Collingwood this week.

This week? lol

You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till we drop a game we should actually win and are about 4-9 at the bye.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

This week? lol

You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till we drop a game we should actually win and are about 4-9 at the bye.

That isn’t happening. They will win more. I reckon Voss has the Club performing as well as it can given the personnel limitations on the ground.

 

[Ginnieboy]

They aren’t making finals IMO, have to play Melbourne twice, Collingwood twice, Saints, Port, Freo in Perth, Suns in QLD, shit even Swans in Sydney next week could be a problem.

 

[Fadge]

They aren’t making finals IMO, have to play Melbourne twice, Collingwood twice, Saints, Port, Freo in Perth, Suns in QLD, s**t even Swans in Sydney next week could be a problem.

4 wins so far this season, and three of them have been against West Coast, North, and GWS (courtesy of the dubious dissent call).

That is where they're at.

 

[bourbons]

They aren’t making finals IMO, have to play Melbourne twice, Collingwood twice, Saints, Port, Freo in Perth, Suns in QLD, s**t even Swans in Sydney next week could be a problem.

Yep. Only have to look at who they've beaten for those 4 wins, we aren't making finals this year.

 

[fnerd]

To drop away wouldn’t you have to be good to begin with?

Perennial Frauds

 

[Freomaniac]

Carltons next 3 games

swans at scg

demons at mcg

essendon at the mcg

they could easily lose all 3

 

[janty]

Cripps has looked horrible this year. blues fans should be really worried about what he's going to look like in 18-24 months time.