Opinion Is this where Carlton drops away? 2023 version

[Blue1980]

To be fair on Voss, and to a lesser extent Teague and Bolton, it’s looking a like the list and the assistant coaching group. How many senior coaches can you keep sacking whilst playing the same or a similar 22? Never seems to be much player development. O’Brien and Dow are cases in point.

Carlton have constantly thrown huge contracts to players to fix issues; Kennedy, Saad, Williams, McGovern etc. They have always been the club in discussion when someone is looking for a new home.

The issues run a lot deeper than Voss, but in typical Carlton fashion and with a fair w***er of a president, he will most likely cop it.

Err no huge contract was thrown to kennedy, and he was even downgraded to rookie list last year.

Saad has been a success and a good acquisition, Gov a desperate Hail Mary after a 2 win season and Williams very good but injury prone.

I don’t think it’s just development or recruitment, but I’d lay it more on recruitment. Everyone has misses, but we have had a lot, SOS didn’t get a good midfielder in the draft at all except Walsh who a blind man could of selected at number one.

So it’s put us in a position where we have a middling list which needs more, if everything goes well we can make the 8, but that’s about it for what we currently have.

 

[Blue1980]

Has anyone considered that Carlton played the 2023 premier last night? Or is it totally a Carlton centric effort that we’ve heard countless times before?

Yes we lost by 4 goals to a perennial top 4-6 side who have strengthened markedly in the off season with Dunkley, Ashcroft and Gunston.

We finished 9th and strengthened with Blake acres.

When looked at like that it’s not so bad. I think it’s a case of we are misremembering how fortunate a lot of those early wins were last year and how it wasn’t sustainable to have such wildly fluctuating performances within a game, quarter to quarter (all of the wins v Richmond, Dogs, hawks, port and swans fall into this category).

We have tried to add layers to the game plan which haven’t worked as yet, and we don’t know if they will. But this side is definitely less than the sum of its parts and relies on our top 6-8 players to play blinders for us to win, and isn’t going to get you to get you sustained success.

 

[Blue1980]

Big call.

Who takes their spot who isn’t in the 8? WB the only candidate I reckon, unless Sydney turns a corner.

Crows and swans you’d back to finish ahead of us based on what we have seen so far.

Essendon and Freo I don’t really see how anyone could claim we definitely better than either, Richmond could get on a bit of a run, and GWS and GC have both looked ok at times.

There is only 3 sides I would say with complete confidence we are better than. I gave us pegged to finish 11th or 12th.

 

[Blue1980]

We'll win 2 - 4 more games for the entire year and give the bottom four a serious run for their money.

vs Bulldogs - L
vs Collingwood - L
vs Sydney - L
vs Melbourne - L
vs Essendon - L
vs Gold Coast - L
vs Hawthorn - W
vs Fremantle - 50/50
vs Port Adelaide - L
vs West Coast - W
vs Collingwood - L
vs St. Kilda - L
vs Gold Coast - L
vs GWS - 50/50

I went through our remaining games, I think 3 more wins is a worst case scenario, 9 more absolute best. I think most likely 10.5 wins in total (6 more for the season).

Of course things can change, we could cop some bad injuries along with most likely only winning 1 or 2 of our next 5, and then we’d be close to sending guys away for surgery and test out the whole list to see who can and can’t play.

Or we could hang in there win say 3 of our next 5, have a close to full list to choose from and still be able to beat enough sides around us plus bottom sides to make the 8.

They are basically the best and worst case scenarios from this point.

 

[Shooter#17]

Will win one of the next 4, beat Essendon, beat Gold Coast twice, GWS, possibly Freo and one of Port or St Kilda. 12 or 13 wins I reckon, borderline finals.

No chance they beat gold coast twice, will be lucky to win 1 in Melbourne

 

[Rich01]

Err no huge contract was thrown to kennedy, and he was even downgraded to rookie list last year.

Saad has been a success and a good acquisition, Gov a desperate Hail Mary after a 2 win season and Williams very good but injury prone.

I don’t think it’s just development or recruitment, but I’d lay it more on recruitment. Everyone has misses, but we have had a lot, SOS didn’t get a good midfielder in the draft at all except Walsh who a blind man could of selected at number one.

So it’s put us in a position where we have a middling list which needs more, if everything goes well we can make the 8, but that’s about it for what we currently have.

Good to see a more even keeled view on SOS list management a few years down the track.

Always liked his strategy, but had a morbid fascination with retreads and injured high draft picks. Wasn’t a great recruiter in the draft either, but did well trading for draft collateral.

 

[bourbons]

How do Carlton go from being the favourites going into the Brisbane game a week ago to now being the underdog in the lead up to the Bulldogs game? I guess that's a good indication of how many people have lost faith in the Blues this week.

More an indication of the insanity of last week's odds imo.

I actually tipped us last week coz I was looking for an upset, mind blown when I found out we were favourites the next day. Didn't look obviously just assumed we would have been $2.50 or more

 

[sydney_gws]

I don't think they could possibly play as badly coming out from defence as last week.
I think they beat Bulldogs, Treloar out hurts.

 

[Chief]

Yeah I had hoped for better against the Dogs so it's hard to make a case against for the negative.

 

[T2B_]

Not looking good. Huge waste of some sublime top end talent too. Sigh.

 

[Coolangatta]

I think Voss will get another year but he’ll be gone for sure if the Blues miss finals next year.

 

[fnerd]

Yeah I had hoped for better against the Dogs so it's hard to make a case against for the negative.

Not looking good. Huge waste of some sublime top end talent too. Sigh.

Chin up boys , you got acres for a 3rd , surely that’s gotta be worth a win to bask in all season!

 

[carlton_99]

Chin up boys , you got acres for a 3rd , surely that’s gotta be worth a win to bask in all season!

Freo supporters really stuck on Acres. Move on mate - enjoy your win today.

 

[Elixuh]

I think Voss will get another year but he’ll be gone for sure if the Blues miss finals next year.

They can't sack Voss this year. Too many questions would begin to be asked about other people in the club. Waiting till next year will be a perfect time to scapegoat Voss. Carlton are pro's at this, they know.

 

[T2B_]

Chin up boys , you got acres for a 3rd , surely that’s gotta be worth a win to bask in all season!

Today aside, he's actually been a shining light this season.

 

[#23 Hill]

I think the media were a little too bullish on them during the pre season, considering they didn't even make the 8 last year.

 

[Blue1980]

I think the media were a little too bullish on them during the pre season, considering they didn't even make the 8 last year.

A lot of people still didn’t have us making the 8. I think I had us 7th.

As of now I think 12th-13th which was probably at the bottom end of what I expected, if things went wrong, which they have and are.

 

[Ginnieboy]

They've failed in two of these six games so far and I have a feeling Collingwood are going to do a job on them next week as well. Add to it that they've lost four of their last five games and it certainly seems like Carlton are dropping away...

Collingwood don’t do a job on anyone, we do the absolute bare minimum to get the 4 points, this is will be Carlton’s grand final so expect a tight contest.

 

[Django]

I think they can still turn it around, but they are stuck in the mud as we speak. They can't score, look poor offensively, no run, no spread. It looks bad. They are a chance to turn it around, but it will be bloody tough. Not sure what is going wrong down there to be honest. They got some damn good players on paper.

The remind me a bit of Richmond, or Melbourne before both clubs won flags. That will probably feed the faithful, but hear me out. When Richmond dived in 2016, I was sure we had wasted once in a generational players like Rance, Martin, Cotchin, Jack Riewoldt, and Deledio. I hadn't seen that many good players in our team all my life. I was pretty deflated thinking we had blown it.

Melbourne did a similar think in 2019.

Carlton are not the yet, they don't even have finals. But you have to start from somewhere.

I kinda hope they can turn it around. I don't mind Voss. And I have an apathy towards Carlton given recent times.

That would be very different going back 20 years. Bloody hated them and Essendon in the 90's like no others!

Still hate Essendon. I have a few Carlton mates so perhaps I have some sympathy. The Tigers have been there before so I have seen all the stages of grief, and resurrection.

How far along into a 5 year rebuild? It's a bloody nightmare!

But times are a changing, and progress isn't linear.

I think the Blues and my Tiges might be fighting for the last spot in the 8 come the end of the year.

 

[Sully111]

Voss can't coach.

Carlton need to grow a pair and flick him.

Anything else is just wasting more time.

 

[The Wrecker]

Game plan, game plan, game plan!
It's that simple.

 

[Del165198]

Voss can't coach.

Carlton need to grow a pair and flick him.

Anything else is just wasting more time.

Voss can't coach
Ratten can't coach
Bolton can't coach
Pagan can't coach
Teague can't coach
Brittain can't coach

At what point do they accept that maybe the problem lies elsewhere..

Or failing that, they could poach Hinkley.

 

[Rich01]

In the same vein of the 2022 version, Carlton started the season well this year (with some wins over mostly bottom 6 teams) and are now about to embark on a run of some pretty tough games with Brisbane (4th) at Marvel, Bulldogs (10th) at Marvel, Collingwood (1st) at the MCG, Sydney (11th) at the SCG, Melbourne (2nd) at the MCG and Essendon (9th) at the MCG to come over the next 6 weeks.

Is this where Carlton drops away?

They must beat Essendon and Sydney to have any hope.

 

[beema limapep]

Carlton are in an extremely fragile state. If Collingwood beats them in 7 days as most would expect the arse will completely fall out of the place again in a way not seen since the salary cap rorting 2 decades ago.

Soul crushing at the hands of their biggest rival. It's going to be both horrific and beautiful to watch.

 

[outabounds]

We never got anywhwere to drop away from. Anyone who watched us in the first few weeks would tell you that thet were extremely uconvincing.