Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Not Important]

an insiders view of aipac and their organisations around the world. aijac in oz


more strength to their arms.

MLA Members for Palestine Protest Denial of BDS Vote at National Assembly | Common Dreams

"We feel that it is our responsibility as the largest North American organization of scholars of literature and language to protest and stand with our colleagues who are being murdered for their existence," said one organizer.

www.commondreams.org

 

[Not Important]

for anyone who has followed the occupation and genocide, this isn’t surprising. gut-wrenching, inhumane and animalistic nonetheless.



yes! treat the gov’t as the pariahs they are.

 

[faible]

It's pretty asymmetric. One side is deliberately blurring the line between Jewish and Israeli by calling criticism of Israel or Zionism "anti-semitism". Then they get upset when other people blur the line or aren't distinct enough.

"Israel killing children is awful"
"Us Jewish people consider that phrase anti-semitic"
"You Jewish people are conflating two different things"
"See, you hate Jews, you said Jewish instead of Zionist/Israeli, which we also consider anti-semitism"
"You Zionists are crazy"
"See, you think all Jews are crazy, that's anti-semitism"
"I'm not racist"
"So you think Jewish is a race? That's anti-semitic"
"Well it's a religion, not a race, I suppose"
"That's anti-semitic, we're kind of both, but neither as well, either way you say it, it's anti-semitic to be critical"

If you're clear, you remove all room for any reasonable person to misconstrue what you've said.

That poster, specifically, is one I've pulled up before for posting some quite problematic stuff.

 

[Not Important]

Gaza has long been s real life testing ground for weapons.

yep! which is precisely what antony loewenstein has said in his book.

The Palestine Laboratory: How Israel Exports The Technology Of Occupation Around The World - Antony Loewenstein

How Israel makes a killing from the occupation. Israel’s military industrial complex uses the occupied, Palestinian territories as a testing ground for weaponry and surveillance technology that they then export around the world to despots and democracies. For more than 50 years, occupation of...

antonyloewenstein.com

 

[Saint]

If you're clear, you remove all room for any reasonable person to misconstrue what you've said.

That poster, specifically, is one I've pulled up before for posting some quite problematic stuff.

OK, describe to me the word or two-word description of people who support the Genocide of Palestinians being undertaken by the state of Israel.

The following words have been declared "anti-semitic":
Zionist (Not even all Zionists support the Genocide)
Israeli (and would include Israelis who don't support it)

Jewish is incorrect.

If you use the word "genocide", they just say it isn't proven yet, so that's blood libel.

The truth is that there is a concerted effort by defenders of Israel to muddy the waters and declare everything anti-semitism. Such that the current generation of young people will associate the phrase anti-semitism with the Palestinian Genocide, rather than the holocaust.

 

[faible]

The truth is that there is a concerted effort by defenders of Israel to muddy the waters and declare everything anti-semitism.

If you're clear, you remove all room for any reasonable person to misconstrue what you've said.

It's not the Israeli people. It's the Israeli Government. It's not Jewish people. It's the nation state of Israel.

Markfs has made some really problematic comments in this thread where he seems to lack that distinction, which gives ammunition to people like the Netanyahu's of the world to simply dismiss any and all criticism. Be better.

 

[Markfs]

for anyone who has followed the occupation and genocide, this isn’t surprising. gut-wrenching, inhumane and animalistic nonetheless.



yes! treat the gov’t as the pariahs they are.

More interesting than the commentary is who is doing it. MSNBC is usually seen as a mouthpiece of the democrats. It might indicate that they are feeling the heat of supporting murder

 

[Markfs]

It's not the Israeli people. It's the Israeli Government. It's not Jewish people. It's the nation state of Israel.

Markfs has made some really problematic comments in this thread where he seems to lack that distinction, which gives ammunition to people like the Netanyahu's of the world to simply dismiss any and all criticism. Be better.

reasons to dismiss criticism??? ...i like your humour

 

[Markfs]

I find it interesting that I've been posting in this thread and a previous one which the apologists managed to get shut down, and for that 14 months or so, I've been the only one to post my religious affiliation. I like to know where my moral education is coming from.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I find it interesting that I've been posting in this thread and a previous one which the apologists managed to get shut down, and for that 14 months or so, I've been the only one to post my religious affiliation. I like to know where my moral education is coming from.

I once had an arbitrary religious affiliation, but I've long since disowned it.
Actually is affiliation is the right word?

 

[faible]

I find it interesting that I've been posting in this thread and a previous one which the apologists managed to get shut down, and for that 14 months or so, I've been the only one to post my religious affiliation. I like to know where my moral education is coming from.

(morals don't have to be tied to a religion)

 

[Markfs]

I once had an arbitrary religious affiliation, but I've long since disowned it.
Actually is affiliation is the right word?

well i probably use affiliation because my body was present but my mind was disengaged...

 

[Markfs]

(morals don't have to be tied to a religion)

spoken like a true atheist...but preaching morals normally requires the student to know where the "master" got his information from.

Unless, of course, you're a fascist and you threaten me...

 

[faible]

spoken like a true atheist...but preaching morals normally requires the student to know where the "master" got his information from.

Unless, of course, you're a fascist and you threaten me...

Morality isn't necessarily handed down externally.

I'd say I'm agnostic, not an athiest.

 

[Markfs]

Morality isn't necessarily handed down externally.

I'd say I'm agnostic, not an athiest.

this appears to be headed towards some technical exchange which doesnt interest me.

whatever way you get information is up to you.

 

[Markfs]

Just saw the initial speech of the new race discrimination commissioner. The interesting part to me is that he states "

“Antisemitism is an insidious form of racism. It is unacceptable in any form and has no place in Australia." Now I recognise that he has just been appointed by the attorney general.......who is off to israel apologising. However, his comment took me back to the question about whether criticism of israel could ever be considered racism.

I did a few minutes wiki research....and it seems that most would agree that there are no races, other than cultural groups or societal groups. Humans just dont vary that much, and I would argue that most of the israeli jews are of european descent anyway and so it just doesnt seem logical.

I remember an incident involving whoopi goldberg, in which she said that she didnt equate racism to matters involving jews, as she saw racism as a matter of colour. She got suspended from her tv network for expressing that view.

The other aspect of racism is that one group expresses the view that it is superior, which is an interesting concept when discussing gaza. Am I putting myself as being superior when I say that israelis are murdering palestinians? I would say that I'm being factual. In fact on a wider assessment of jews in general, I would say that the collective behaviour of jewish groups is "superior" to the isolated, individual, consumer-focussed behaviour of general western society.

So in short, I cant see how negative comments about israelis or jews can be construed as racism, even if the new discrimination commissioner thinks that I should think that.

Race Discrimination Commissioner condemns latest antisemitic attacks on synagogues

Race Discrimination Commissioner Giridharan Sivaraman has condemned two antisemitic incidents on synagogues over the weekend in the New South Wales suburbs of Allawah and Newtown.

humanrights.gov.au

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Concerning!

 

[Markfs]

It came to me that over the years, germans have been criticised for not resisting the nazis in some way....even in a limited way such as expressing a view against it. I thought that I would read about it in the holocaust encyclopedia.

It's peculiar that I began to think of jewish australians in this context. If germans had a moral duty to resist nazis and express it because of how the latter treated the jews, do australian jews have a similar duty to make it known to the israelis that they shouldnt murder palestinians?

Bystanders

Explore definitions, connotations, and evolving considerations when using the term bystanders in the range of behaviors and motivations during the Holocaust.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I know and acknowledge holocaust and it was a terrible chapter of humanity.
However , i'm not sure it was worse than what blacks descended from slaves have suffered for generations.
Do they get a special name for it ?

 

[Markfs]

I know and acknowledge holocaust and it was a terrible chapter of humanity.
However , i'm not sure it was worse than what blacks descended from slaves have suffered for generations.
Do they get a special name for it ?

i've heard that the LA mayor was in ghana working out a two state solution....so the homeless in LA will have a place to go

 

[Val Keating]

Bit of theatre to pretend Trump is in charge. Bibi will be there, so will Mrs Adelson.

Fair enough. I read something interesting yesterday though.

 

[Val Keating]

 

[Saint]

Fair enough. I read something interesting yesterday though.

Still part of the theatre, Trump understands this better this time. So does Israel. As long as Trump feels like the boss, he'll do what you want him to do.

Saying you reluctantly did what Trump wants doesn't work. You have to say that he bossed you around.

 

[Markfs]

Fair enough. I read something interesting yesterday though.

Jacob Magid is The Times of Israel's US bureau chief....consider yourself punked....if that saying is still cool

 

[Val Keating]

Still part of the theatre, Trump understands this better this time. So does Israel. As long as Trump feels like the boss, he'll do what you want him to do.

Saying you reluctantly did what Trump wants doesn't work. You have to say that he bossed you around.

As long as the genocide stops I don’t really care.