Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Deliverance]

Jews are not a race, not an ethnic group

Are Jews a Race? | My Jewish Learning

The short answer is no — Jews are not a race. People who identify as Jewish include individuals of enormously diverse ...

www.myjewishlearning.com

It's not racism and neither is Islamophobia

 

[Chief]

Jews are not a race, not an ethnic group

Are Jews a Race? | My Jewish Learning

The short answer is no — Jews are not a race. People who identify as Jewish include individuals of enormously diverse ...

www.myjewishlearning.com

It's not racism and neither is Islamophobia

But generally "racism" is interchangeable with "bigotry". I don't see that language as such a big deal unless there is a specific argument that "Jewish = one race".

 

[Saint]

The pressure isn't going to be on Iran, it's going to be on the USA to start a war with Iran.

Israel will be smashing the drums of war. Lots of strikes in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen. Israel will start escalating as soon as Trump takes office.

 

[faible]

People condemn the murderous israelis and for some reason australian jews start talking about antisemitism. I dont see the connection. They are obvious two completely different tropes, arent they?

Of course the 1000 or so australian jews who went to israel to murder children may be multi-tropites

Israel =/= all Jews. One is a nation state that's nominally Jewish, the other isn't.

Does that stop certain cohorts from using the actions of Israel as an excuse to espouse their already deeply antisemitic views? Not at all.

Does that stop the leader of that nation state from pretending Israel does = all Jews in order to use 'antisemitism' as a shield from any and all criticism despite it doing an immeasurable amount of harm to the actual Jewish diaspora globally? Also no.

There's a very fine line between criticism of Israel as a nation state, and Jews. Some posters regularly fail to exercise a clear distinction between the two things.

 

[Markfs]

Israel =/= all Jews. One is a nation state that's nominally Jewish, the other isn't.

Does that stop certain cohorts from using the actions of Israel as an excuse to espouse their already deeply antisemitic views? Not at all.

Does that stop the leader of that nation state from pretending Israel does = all Jews in order to use 'antisemitism' as a shield from any and all criticism despite it doing an immeasurable amount of harm to the actual Jewish diaspora globally? Also no.

There's a very fine line between criticism of Israel as a nation state, and Jews. Some posters regularly fail to exercise a clear distinction between the two things.

i ask why my gov't representatives have crawled to israel to apologise to people who are murderers.....and the hysterical over-reaction to a few graffiti incidents. I'm less worried about your line

 

[Val Keating]

People condemn the murderous israelis and for some reason australian jews start talking about antisemitism. I dont see the connection. They are obvious two completely different tropes, arent they?

Of course the 1000 or so australian jews who went to israel to murder children may be multi-tropites

It’s so annoying and dishonest, and frankly lessens what anti semite means.

 

[Val Keating]

The pressure isn't going to be on Iran, it's going to be on the USA to start a war with Iran.

Israel will be smashing the drums of war. Lots of strikes in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen. Israel will start escalating as soon as Trump takes office.

View attachment 2203313

Didn’t Bibi just cancel his trip to Trumps inauguration after Trump posted that video of Sachs condemning Israel?

 

[Markfs]

It’s so annoying and dishonest, and frankly lessens what anti semite means.

i find it interesting that the people who promote the idea of collateral damage as an excuse for the deaths of innocents, can complain when they are the supposed victims.....so on a personal note, to all the jewish people who somehow feel aggrieved about any of the comments that i have made in the last year......oooops... i was criticising murderers and you seem to have got in the way.

 

[faible]

Some posters regularly fail to exercise a clear distinction between the two things.

See below for examples for these posters:

I'm less worried about your line

to all the jewish people who somehow feel aggrieved about any of the comments that i have made in the last year......oooops... i was criticising murderers and you seem to have got in the way.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Didn’t Bibi just cancel his trip to Trumps inauguration after Trump posted that video of Sachs condemning Israel?

Amazing, he thinks Trump gives a shit that he's not there.

 

[faible]

Amazing, he thinks Trump gives a shit that he's not there.

Trump actually would give a shit. If he's not the centre of attention he gets upset. Like a child.

 

[Markfs]

Didn’t Bibi just cancel his trip to Trumps inauguration after Trump posted that video of Sachs condemning Israel?

His repost is weird when you consider that his services to israel have been bought during the campaign. The lobby might be considering offering up netty as a human sacrifice.

 

[Markfs]

See below for examples for these posters:

your obsession with antisemitism is noted. I've already admitted to criticising israel over an extended period and I have regularly been classified as being antisemitic. I hope this assists you.

 

[Deliverance]

But generally "racism" is interchangeable with "bigotry". I don't see that language as such a big deal unless there is a specific argument that "Jewish = one race".

I think the distinction is important, as bigotry is related to any random group. I could be considered a bigot if I hated trans people, but not racist. If I hated Kenyan people I would be considered both racist and a bigot. I feel an anti Semite is a bigot, not a racist.

 

[Saint]

Didn’t Bibi just cancel his trip to Trumps inauguration after Trump posted that video of Sachs condemning Israel?

Bit of theatre to pretend Trump is in charge. Bibi will be there, so will Mrs Adelson.

 

[faible]

your obsession with antisemitism is noted. I've already admitted to criticising israel over an extended period and I have regularly been classified as being antisemitic. I hope this assists you.

Probably means you should do better at making your criticism of Israel the nation state distinct from Jewish people.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Trump actually would give a shit. If he's not the centre of attention he gets upset. Like a child.

I'm sure he'll find there are enough people clapping and shaking his hand at his inagruation.
He might avoid getting blood on his if he doesn't need to shake Benjy's.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm sure there are anti-semites around.
I'm also sure that some of them feel pretty safe to voice their opinions given the current situation.

I put it down as collateral damage. If the Israeli government weren't so aggressively killing .
Surely the Israeli's think that a few hurt feelings of Jews around the world is a price they are willing to pay for "defending themselves" so aggressively.

 

[Saint]

I'm sure there are anti-semites around.
I'm also sure that some of them feel pretty safe to voice their opinions given the current situation.

I put it down as collateral damage. If the Israeli government weren't so aggressively killing .
Surely the Israeli's think that a few hurt feelings of Jews around the world is a price they are willing to pay for "defending themselves" so aggressively.

The funniest part of the whole thing is that the ones who usually show up to protest against the Nazi marches are the ones protesting against the Israelis.

So when there was a nazi rally in Ballarat, they marched unopposed because their usual opposition was protesting and their target were counter-protesting that.

 

[Markfs]

I think the distinction is important, as bigotry is related to any random group. I could be considered a bigot if I hated trans people, but not racist. If I hated Kenyan people I would be considered both racist and a bigot. I feel an anti Semite is a bigot, not a racist.

I agree with you. A lot of the people doing the murdering in gaza are european descent. I dont see the racial aspects of most of the criticism of israel. Speaking from personal point of view, I dismiss religious opinions across the board. An idea that a particular religion promotes the idea of a chosen people with a promised land that requires the effective stealing of land, is nonsense to me. But the same is true for evangelicals with their promotion of jews to attain that promised land. It's all nonsense to me. That would seem to make me a broadbased bigot. I have no particular bent against the jewish religion.

The oxford defines bigot as

a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

The question that I would pose is why am I the bigot, when particular groups have their "theories" that they unreasonably attached themselves to which result in the deaths of thousands.

 

[Markfs]

Probably means you should do better at making your criticism of Israel the nation state distinct from Jewish people.

Well i'm not obsessed by this line as you are. Also, i dont see the "line" there as the greater majority of israelis of palestinian descent dont want to murder gazans, and a significant proportion of jewish people outside israel do.

 

[Markfs]

I'm sure he'll find there are enough people clapping and shaking his hand at his inagruation.
He might avoid getting blood on his if he doesn't need to shake Benjy's.

I dont think any blood will worry him. He's been well paid.

 

[faible]

i dont see the "line" there

Well i'm not obsessed by this line

This is the problem.

 

[Saint]

This is the problem.

It's pretty asymmetric. One side is deliberately blurring the line between Jewish and Israeli by calling criticism of Israel or Zionism "anti-semitism". Then they get upset when other people blur the line or aren't distinct enough.

"Israel killing children is awful"
"Us Jewish people consider that phrase anti-semitic"
"You Jewish people are conflating two different things"
"See, you hate Jews, you said Jewish instead of Zionist/Israeli, which we also consider anti-semitism"
"You Zionists are crazy"
"See, you think all Jews are crazy, that's anti-semitism"
"I'm not racist"
"So you think Jewish is a race? That's anti-semitic"
"Well it's a religion, not a race, I suppose"
"That's anti-semitic, we're kind of both, but neither as well, either way you say it, it's anti-semitic to be critical"

 

[Not Important]

It's different. The recent history of anti-Semitism has been about genetics - belief has been irrelevant. In terms of Jews identifying or being identified as Jewish - belief is still irrelevant and frankly most anti-Semites don't know enough about Judaism to discriminate based on religion. It's culture or genetic based.

in the case of this thread, i see a clear distinction between attacking the government of a country (political) and attacking attacking a person or group bc of their religion or race.