Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Sarcoidevo]

Because Saudi's leaders wouldn't mind seeing Iran, and their Houthi rebels being taken down a notch, but they can't be seen to be thinking this publicly.

If Iran launched 2,000 drones and missiles from Lebanon/Syria, Israel's air force and air bases would be decimated. There's only 10 airbases over a relatively small area.

Though Israel have managed to hide them in civilian areas (at least that's what they'd claim if Hamas had airbases like Ben Gurion (Lod) and Tel Nof).

Nobody wins in war. Even if Israel won a battle in Lebanon with Iran's proxies, Iran are edging closer and closer to nuclear weapons and are more and more aligned with Russia who will be just about desperate enough to sell one to them if they can't develop their own. Israel are biting off way more than they can chew.

Iranian leaders are calling for war but .... don't really want one .... seems to be a lot of hot air & bluster

Top officials being eliminated .... strikes on their own soil they cannot stop

They seem to be under a lot of presssure at the moment .... could it be that the regime is on the precipice?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

https://www.news.com.au/world/middl...d/news-story/e3188bc06b1f610920ed10979249b4cd

 

[Saint]

Iranian leaders are calling for war but .... don't really want one .... seems to be a lot of hot air & bluster

Top officials being eliminated .... strikes on their own soil they cannot stop

They seem to be under a lot of presssure at the moment .... could it be that the regime is on the precipice?

I don't think they want war, but it sure as hell isn't going to stop them supplying missiles to Hezbollah, or not want a nuke.

The world can hardly tell Iran they don't need a nuke while Israel is doing stuff like this to them.

 

[QuietB]

I meant as they flew over Syria towards Iran.

Iran can produce more missiles, rockets and drones than Israel can produce interceptors and the Iron Dome interceptors are for rockets, not cruise missiles and drones. Without the long distance of being fired from Iran and a massive international effort, the last wave of retaliation from Iran would have caused more damage. If it were launched from Syria or Lebanon, the damage to Israel would be huge.

The last wave of Iranian retribution was agreed with the Americans in advance (through someone). The USA knew it was coming, when it was coming and where it was going - and they obviously told Israel.

Iron dome was still overwhelmed and somewhere near half the intercepted weapons were intercepted by the USA.

Israel is massively vulnerable.

 

[QuietB]

If it wasn't for the power keg it would ignite in the area Israel would smoke both off the surface of the planet if they just unleashed.

Israels military capability is FAR beyond both of those.

There aren't many other countries on earth who spend more on their military as a % of their GDP than Israel does + they get all the latest defence tech directly from the USA.

A squadron of Israeli F35A jets could take out Irans entire air force.

USA had total air superiority in Afghanistan as well as complete military superiority.

There are no other countries on earth who spend more on their military than the USA.

How’d that work out?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

USA had total air superiority in Afghanistan as well as complete military superiority.

There are no other countries on earth who spend more on their military than the USA.

How’d that work out?

That isn't what the comparison was.

USA was not fighting Afghanistan as a country; they were fighting terrorist groups which are an ideology. Which you can't win with bullets. it's what Israel is trying to do now, and they will fail.

 

[QuietB]

technology wins wars largely, air force technology - not manpower.

This is just plain wrong.

Technology did not decide the Korean War. Or Vietnam. Or Afghanistan. It is not deciding the Ukraine war. And Israel cannot end the Gaza war.

If technology wins wars why did the most technologically advanced not win all the wars listed above?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

This is just plain wrong.

Technology did not decide the Korean War. Or Vietnam. Or Afghanistan. It is not deciding the Ukraine war. And Israel cannot end the Gaza war.

If technology wins wars why did the most technologically advanced not win all the wars listed above?

You are comparing Apples with Oranges, to a completely different hypothetical scenario to the one i suggested.

IE The war in Afghanistan was not a war of countries, it was a war on terrorist ideology. You can't beat ideology with weapons. its why what Israel doing is just a failure.

The technology gap now, is far greater than it was in the 1950- 1970's, and not to mention most of the wars you have listed are not 1v1 affairs and have many different contraints to the hypothetical i suggested.

if you are going to move goal posts, than OK a different scenario might have a different result?

 

[Saint]

You are comparing Apples with Oranges, to a completely different hypothetical scenario to the one i suggested.

IE The war in Afghanistan was not a war of countries, it was a war on terrorist ideology. You can't beat ideology with weapons. its why what Israel doing is just a failure.

The technology gap now, is far greater than it was in the 1950- 1970's, and not to mention most of the wars you have listed are not 1v1 affairs and have many different contraints to the hypothetical i suggested.

if you are going to move goal posts, than OK a different scenario might have a different result?

What is the goal of the Israeli war?

Rescue Hostages-Fail
Completely eradicate Hamas - 50% (and even if they succeed, they've just traumatised 2 million people who will create a new entity).
Make Israel more safe - Fail, they're now at war on all sides, have been condemned by the UN, nobody will fly there and politically more isolated than they've ever been. Iran will have a nuke soon and Israel keep giving them reasons to develop and use them.

This war is a complete failure.

Technology cannot win this war. Israel have killed more people and destroyed more things, but that's not a stated goal. If you think Israel is winning this war, then you're ignoring the stated goals and just going with "doing the most killing" as your idea of success.

 

[QuietB]

You are comparing Apples with Oranges, to a completely different hypothetical scenario to the one i suggested.

IE The war in Afghanistan was not a war of countries, it was a war on terrorist ideology. You can't beat ideology with weapons. its why what Israel doing is just a failure.

The technology gap now, is far greater than it was in the 1950- 1970's, and not to mention most of the wars you have listed are not 1v1 affairs and have many different contraints to the hypothetical i suggested.

if you are going to move goal posts, than OK a different scenario might have a different result?

I’m not moving the goal posts.

Israel can have all the technological advantage and air superiority they want. None of it will stop rockets and missiles raining down on Israel from all sides. Iran have already breached the iron dome with an attack that was completely foreshadowed. Everyone knows it can be breached now. It does not even deal with missiles anyway.

Sure Israel can hurt Iran, but Iran will be willing to pay that price.

And the USA will not put boots on the ground.

So ultimately Israel will be reduced to a better armed Hezbolla lobbing rockets and missiles at Iran.

Sure Israel have nuc’s - hardly a viable option though. The USA will certainly watch on as the Arab world levels Israel if they use a nuc.

War with Iran is not the way out of this for Israel.

 

[QuietB]

What is the goal of the Israeli war?

Ethnic cleansing to allow the colonial expansion of Israel.

 

[Saint]

Ethnic cleansing to allow the colonial expansion of Israel.

They're doing it, but it'll take years to kill 2 million people. They really really wanted them to all evacuate to Egypt so they could take it without killing them all. Now they simply don't know what to do, but they're spending the USA's blank-cheque for weapons blowing up stuff for a second time and killing more people with no actual goal.

It's just murder, and while the US and Israeli public is excusing it at the moment, like they did with Iraq, when the truth is fully revealed, Israel will never recover in the worlds' eyes. They're now the aggressor to the majority of the world and worthy of no sympathy.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If you want to just take it to extreme hypothetical.

They just drop a few nukes on Iran.

Iran is not Nuclear, as of yet.

Israel (with US assistance) is in the process of R&D on its iron dome system to be capable of taking down Ballistics rockets.

Until Iran is also nuclear, they are no match for Israel in terms of military capability.

SIgh.....Is the world going to end because of these religious wack jobs ?

 

[Saint]

SIgh.....Is the world going to end because of these religious wack jobs ?

If the world ends due to war, it'll be because of religious whack jobs who reside in Israel and Iran.

 

[bengrina]

What would the nuclear fallout be if either israel or iran were to use a nuclear weapon? Would thre be any significant ramifications in Australia given we are so far away?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What would the nuclear fallout be if either israel or iran were to use a nuclear weapon? Would thre be any significant ramifications in Australia given we are so far away?

Depends if someone else jumps in.

Chernobyl released 400 times the radiation of the Hiroshima bomb. It hasn't been directly associated with all that many deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster#:~:text=There is consensus that a,of later radiation induced cancer.

It also doesn't spread so easily from the northern hemisphere to the southern.

 

[Not Important]

there are many non military weapons that can cause israel pain. boycott’s and the yanks stop funding them are two others.

 

[Not Important]

 

[Sqotty from office works]

If the world ends due to war, it'll be because of religious whack jobs who reside in Israel and Iran.

And religious nut jobs in America that do all the arming.
Ask where did isreal get nuclear tools from

 

[Not Important]

It seems you're thinking of this like some kind of Top Gun situation?

I think you're underestimating Iranian ballistic missile and drone production capacity, supplies and support. They can overwhelm Israels defences, if not through volume then through grind.

If Iran were to strike preemptively the Israeli air force likely wouldnt get off the ground. If they fly sorties into Iran they will have to land somewhere else.

Israel has less than 10 million people, total. Iran has 88 million, and tens of millions more surrounding who would very much enjoy an opportunity to engage Israel. The casualties would be horrific of course, but the numbers are there.

The IDF were stretched just trying to control Gaza. They don't have anywhere near the manpower to do anything to Iran.

Their economy is already in the toilet.

the issue iran would face is that their strike aircraft are old. and there's the yanks.

 

[leon123]

And religious nut jobs in America that do all the arming.
Ask where did isreal get nuclear tools from

I thought it was france.... but, its just a vague recollection

 

[SaintsSeptember]

And religious nut jobs in America that do all the arming.
Ask where did isreal get nuclear tools from

The ones who follow the Greenback god are the ones doing the arming.

Oops no, you're wrong, the American's have done stuff all to make Israel nuclear capable.
Come on don't just mindlessly blame America for everything.

Nuclear weapons and Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sqotty from office works]

I thought it was france.... but, its just a vague recollection

Nothing military happens in isreal without American approval.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I’m not moving the goal posts.

Israel can have all the technological advantage and air superiority they want. None of it will stop rockets and missiles raining down on Israel from all sides. Iran have already breached the iron dome with an attack that was completely foreshadowed. Everyone knows it can be breached now. It does not even deal with missiles anyway.

Sure Israel can hurt Iran, but Iran will be willing to pay that price.

And the USA will not put boots on the ground.

So ultimately Israel will be reduced to a better armed Hezbolla lobbing rockets and missiles at Iran.

Sure Israel have nuc’s - hardly a viable option though. The USA will certainly watch on as the Arab world levels Israel if they use a nuc.

War with Iran is not the way out of this for Israel.

Again,

I said in a pure 1v1 with Iran - that was the Hypothetical.

USA, Hezbollah etc have nothing to do with what i originally suggested. You are indeed moving the goal posts.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

What is the goal of the Israeli war?

Rescue Hostages-Fail
Completely eradicate Hamas - 50% (and even if they succeed, they've just traumatised 2 million people who will create a new entity).
Make Israel more safe - Fail, they're now at war on all sides, have been condemned by the UN, nobody will fly there and politically more isolated than they've ever been. Iran will have a nuke soon and Israel keep giving them reasons to develop and use them.

This war is a complete failure.

Technology cannot win this war. Israel have killed more people and destroyed more things, but that's not a stated goal. If you think Israel is winning this war, then you're ignoring the stated goals and just going with "doing the most killing" as your idea of success.

Did you even read?

What i posted has nothing to do with the war in Gaza.

it was a 1v1 Hypothetical between Iran and Israel based on military capability - nothing to do with the current war in gaza.

What Israel are doing in Gaza, is indeed a failure. per the below. Where i clearly said it....

You are comparing Apples with Oranges, to a completely different hypothetical scenario to the one i suggested.

IE The war in Afghanistan was not a war of countries, it was a war on terrorist ideology. You can't beat ideology with weapons. its why what Israel doing is just a failure.

The technology gap now, is far greater than it was in the 1950- 1970's, and not to mention most of the wars you have listed are not 1v1 affairs and have many different contraints to the hypothetical i suggested.

if you are going to move goal posts, than OK a different scenario might have a different result?