Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Sarcoidevo]

Eventually, like Iraq and Vietnam, when everyone realises what a travesty the Israeli Genocide is, everyone will pretend they were misled, or didn't really support it and shrink into their holes.

Most people who supported (and it was a majority of people) the Vietnam War would never admit it now. If it weren't for the full-throated media support in the UK, US and Australia, there wouldn't be anywhere near the current levels of support.

From a neutral standpoint ..... Can I ask how you seriously think this is going to end?

Do you think Israel are just going to pack up and leave?

Do you think the UN are going to turn around and tell Israel ..... sorry guys we made a mistake?

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Bloods86]

Look mate, when you accused me of derailing the thread, that is an open invitation for censorship.
Words have consequences in general.
TBH, I think if it had been up to you, you would have used that as a pretext to ban me from posting.
I am willing to take on your points of disagreement and explain why I think my view is correct, and you are welcome to do the same to me.

You think wrong, but thanks for the assumption.

 

[IlovethePies]

From a neutral standpoint ..... Can I ask how you seriously think this is going to end?

Do you think Israel are just going to pack up and leave?

Do you think the UN are going to turn around and tell Israel ..... sorry guys we made a mistake?

Impossible to have a neutral viewpoint.
Example: Would you read an biography of Hitler by an author who declared himself to be "neutral" about the rise to power of the Nazis?
"Neutrality" is a cover for a position that one does not wish to admit.

I would ask you, how would you wish to see it end?

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Unverified reports of casualties

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Impossible to have a neutral viewpoint.
Example: Would you read an autobiography of Hitler by an author who declared himself to be "neutral" about the rise to power of the Nazis?
"Neutrality" is a cover for a position that one does not wish to admit.

I would ask you, how would you wish to see it end?

An autobiography .... written by someone else?

Your example doesn't even make sense .... if you wrote a "Biography" about the Hitler/Nazis rise to power you would likely write an unbiased factual neutral account based on information you have of Hitler/ Nazis rise to power .... no need to take sides .... you are explaining to readers how it happened

Everyone wishes to see this ongoing conflict end in peace ... whether that happens needs from both sides of thr conflict but what is clear that it won't end by Israel upping and leaving

How do you see it ending?

The working class uniting across borders to abolish oligarchs, singing kumbayah with 7 billion people all agreeing with each other on a common goal of equality across all industries across the globe without any infighting and persecution?

 

[IlovethePies]

An autobiography .... written by someone else?

Your example doesn't even make sense .... if you wrote a "Biography" about the Hitler/Nazis rise to power you would likely write an unbiased factual neutral account based on information you have of Hitler/ Nazis rise to power .... no need to take sides .... you are explaining to readers how it happened

Everyone wishes to see this ongoing conflict end in peace ... whether that happens needs from both sides of thr conflict but what is clear that it won't end by Israel upping and leaving

How do you see it ending?

The working class uniting across borders to abolish oligarchs, singing kumbayah with 7 billion people all agreeing with each other on a common goal of equality across all industries across the globe without any infighting and persecution?

my bad!! Meant a biography of hitler.

Your last paragraph is exactly how I would wish it to end, but not by "singing kumbayah"" (whatever ""anti-woke terminology" you wish to bring in to attempt to ridicule what I am saying)

Working class unity across national borders, which will be led only by a revolutionary party based on socialist internationalism.

That is not a utopian dream. It is actually the only realistic and practical solution to resolve the crisis of civilisation that is currently unfolding before our very eyes.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Socialist Internationalism ..... no infighting .... no persecution ..... just love and equality everywhere ....yes good luck with that

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Does Iran have nuclear bombs?

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Does Iran have nuclear bombs?

Not that we know of ... but if they did and they used them on Israel ... what do you think would happen to Iran?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

'Netanyahu’s lethal bombs will turn Lebanon into another Gaza. He must be brought down now.'

Netanyahu’s lethal bombs will turn Lebanon into another Gaza. He must be brought down now | Simon Tisdall

The Israeli leader needs forever wars to keep himself in power. Innocent lives just don’t matter, says Simon Tisdall, the foreign affairs commentator of the Observer

www.theguardian.com

 

[Jello_B]

Any specifics on what the US are sending troops for? All I can find is for assisting with evacuations which seems odd. Also found reference to 40,000 US troops being in the area, is that in Israel?

 

[faible]

Israel ‘to accelerate’ Lebanon attacks as death toll rises to 558

UN, world leaders call for urgent de-escalation as Israel’s bombardment of Lebanon kills 492 and wounds at least 1,645.

aje.io

 

[JayJ20]

Israeli officials are using the exact same talking points with Lebanon as they did in Gaza. People expelled from North Gaza a year ago still haven't returned. As if the people in South Lebanon will believe Netanyahu about being able to return.

The regional war the U.S. supposedly wanted to avoid is here now. The only reason they have the confidence to go to war in Lebanon is because of U.S. arms supply. They would have been forced to accept a ceasefire deal with pressure from the U.S. via an arms embargo.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

Any specifics on what the US are sending troops for? All I can find is for assisting with evacuations which seems odd. Also found reference to 40,000 US troops being in the area, is that in Israel?

Last time in 2006 the US evacuated citizens from Lebanon (and I think that they also assisted some allied countries people as well)
There are numerous US bases in the middle east there is a more comprehensive list and map here but was last updated in 2021 so might be a bit out of date.

U.S. Bases in the Middle East

For decades, the United States has operated out of bases and facilities throughout the Middle East. As security priorities have changed and relationships with host countries have evolved, so have the locations and needs of U.S. forces in the region.

www.americansecurityproject.org

The UK has a base in Cyprus where last time they took the evacuees to via boat from Lebanon (the airport in Beirut was attacked by the Israelis)
The US will provide defensive cover for Israel against drone and missile strikes from Iran , Yemen , Iraq and Syria but I doubt they will attack Hezbollah unless Hezbollah directly attacks US interests in the region.
Although 40 k troops seems a big number it's not enough for any significant offensive action but is a big deterrent against attacks on US military personnel and allied states across the region.
If Israel goes into Lebanon they will be pretty much on their own.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

America need to stop this nut Netanyahu. It is a massive stain on Biden's legacy.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Netanyahu and his war criminal colleagues need a one way ticket to a place akin to The Gulag.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Saint]

Israeli right wing press trying to equate 300 rockets falling ineffectively with 3,000 missiles and bombs which killed hundreds of women and children, saying the Hezbollah threats are escalating when it's clearly Israel escalating.

The UN General Assembly is going after them and the Biden administration is in lame-duck mode.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[sr36]

Imperialism has a scientific meaning, it is not a word to be lightly thrown around.
Imperialism, in the proper scientific definition, refers to the nations during the mid to late 1800's and early 1900's developed the wealth, industrial base and financial power to start colonising the rest of the world and amassing further superprofits in this process. The imperialist powers historically dominated the world financial and industrial economy. These nations were: US, Britain, Germany, France, Japan, (to a lesser extent, Italy).

Russia was never an imperialist power. Dominated by Tsarism, it had a much more backward economy than the nations of Western Europe and the US. However, British (mainly, I believe, but maybe from other sources such as US) poured into Russia and made possible a very rapid and gigantic industrialisation. This in turn was what created a powerful concentration of the proletariat in key urban centres.

However, Russia never exercised the same kind of global economic dominance in world economic affairs as did the imperialist nations. Even the Soviet Union, despite the enormous economic expansion made possible by the nationalised property relations, never could exercise or overcome the economic domination of global imperialism. This in the end was the fundamental reason why the Stalinists liquidated the Soviet Union in order to impose capitalism and entrench their priviliges as owners of property (which they were not before under the former nationalised property system).

And today, likewise, Russia does not occupy a dominant position in global economy. If it did, it would retaliate against the US and its NATO allies with financial sanctions. But it cannot because the imperialists are the ones who control global finance, it is German and US banks that can freeze Russian assets, and not vice verca.

Nor does the Russian invasion of Ukraine bear any resemblance to an imperialist war of conquest. Russian military actions bear no resemblance to the actions of the IDF in Gaza, nor to those of the wehrmacht during Operation Barbarossa. Russian forces are not motoring through Ukraine and threatening to take over Poland, Latvia, Estonia etc...and nor does Putin have any intention of such an insane plan.

Israel is not an imperialist nation in the same historical sense as the US, and the other Western European imperialist governments. It is more apt to describe it as an outgrowth, or a base, for imperialist expansion and control of the Middle East. The history of the state of Israel shows quite clearly that as soon as the British relinquished their influence in the middle east, the US filled the vacuum and became the imperialist backers of the Zionist state. As Biden himself during the 80's, if Israel did not exist, we would have to invent it.

What? The term goes back a damn site longer than you're suggesting. It simply means - relating to an empire. USSR was an Empire, ergo it was imperial.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]