Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Markfs]

With Murdoch funding Netanyahu, it wouldn't surprise me if Israel bombed the ABC.

The donation to Netty is probably minor compared to the amount of business that has been directed to newcorp.....and that doesnt take into account the amount of propaganda that is being printed in newscorp media...

 

[Markfs]

Saw Richard Branson interviewed today and wasn't aware of his involvement in 'A Land for All is possible'.

"I have never shied away from speaking up for human rights, democracy, peace and justice and have been a campaigner on these issues all my adult life.

But as so many of my peers, I have for months struggled to come to terms with what has been happening in Israel and Gaza, and to find my voice. The discourse over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has become so toxic, so uncompromising, that it seems there is no longer any room for nuance or balance, let alone for any kind of vision that charts a course forward and imagines what peace could look like".

Interestingly it is on his Virgin website.

A Land for All is possible | Virgin

Richard Branson discusses 'A Land for All' - a bold and audacious vision that would enable both Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs to flourish and prosper on a common understanding of the ground beneath their feet.

www.virgin.com

A Land For All | A Land For All

http://www.alandforall.org/wp-admin/admin.php?page=gf_settings&subview=uninstall

www.alandforall.org

Sounds like he is in the middle of some delicate negotiations with emirates.....

 

[FreoRicci]

Well if Palestinians were not bad people, the Israeli defence force wouldnt have a reason to hurt them.

Ask why Egypt has a massive barb wire fence on the Gaza strip- egpytian border?

Pathetic statement. Racist and naive

Israelis are good people according to you then?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Saw Richard Branson interviewed today and wasn't aware of his involvement in 'A Land for All is possible'.

"I have never shied away from speaking up for human rights, democracy, peace and justice and have been a campaigner on these issues all my adult life.

But as so many of my peers, I have for months struggled to come to terms with what has been happening in Israel and Gaza, and to find my voice. The discourse over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has become so toxic, so uncompromising, that it seems there is no longer any room for nuance or balance, let alone for any kind of vision that charts a course forward and imagines what peace could look like".

Interestingly it is on his Virgin website.

A Land for All is possible | Virgin

Richard Branson discusses 'A Land for All' - a bold and audacious vision that would enable both Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs to flourish and prosper on a common understanding of the ground beneath their feet.

www.virgin.com

A Land For All | A Land For All

http://www.alandforall.org/wp-admin/admin.php?page=gf_settings&subview=uninstall

www.alandforall.org

Branson set off the fire alarms at Virgin's Brisbane Airport Hangar during a staff party, in the early days of Virgin Blue.
When the airport firefighters turned up, they found him in his jocks having a smoking ceremony with the traditional owners.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Objective truths? This idea that objective truths can only be attained by people that choose no side is seriously flawed. So are you saying that it's wrong to "reduce" Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa, Western Colonialism etc to an oppressor/oppressed relationship? Are you saying that objective truths could have only been achieved by people who didn't take either side? It is in fact objective truths that makes me speak up for the Palestinians. Complicating clear oppression, ethnic cleansing and genocide is an awful perspective to have and a tactic used by the oppressor.

Also, this is not a multi-century feud. Jews escaped Christian persecution to live under Muslim rulership for centuries due to Islamic Laws that secured their safety. If you genuinely believe propaganda used to justify Palestinian oppression, then you fell into the very same thing you accuse others of doing.

The objective truth is that over 40,000 Palestinians have been killed (including tens of thousands of children), over 100,000 injured, many with permanent disabilities. That is objectively wrong.

The objective truth is that Iran's proxies started as a resistance group to Israeli occupation and oppression. The latter came first and gave rise to them.

The objective truth is that the Israeli state is a settler colonial state that aimed to establish a Jewish majority in a region with a majority Arab Muslim and Christian demographic.
It was never started with the goal of co-existing with the population that lived there because how can a Jewish Ethno-State be established with a majority Arab Muslim and Christian population? Palestine is a nationality not an ethnicity and there is nothing that would have prevented Jewish migrants from being Palestinian like the Jews, Christians and Muslims that already lived there.

The objective truth is that the only way this has a chance of stopping is the dismantling of the Zionist regime so that Palestinians can be given their rights. You can never get around this by keeping the status quo. You will never have peace in a system that continues to dehumanise a powerless group. South Africa and western countries with colonial origins, though they still have a long way to go, only reached the point they did today for minority groups because the oppressive systems in place in the past (apartheid, Jim Crow laws etc) were dismantled.

There is no reason why Arab Muslims and Christians can't co-exist with their Jewish oppressors post-Zionism just like black South Africans, African Americans, Jewish Holocaust survivors, Indigenous Australians and Native Americans can co-exist with their former oppressors once the oppressive regime was dismantled and their humanity was recognised.

I entirely agree with the sentiment of your last paragraph, but realistically it has little chance of occurring.
If Zionism is dismantled, radical Islam needs to be as well.
It seems to me that this is the ultimate goal of the current Israeli regime.

 

[JayJ20]

I entirely agree with the sentiment of your last paragraph, but realistically it has little chance of occurring.

At least in the immediate future because:

1. Western powers continue to fund and support the Zionist regime to fulfil their own agenda for the region
2. Zionists and their apologists continue to fear-monger by making it seem like Palestinians are savages in the same way black South Africans, African Americans, Jewish Europeans, indigenous populations etc were viewed as savages. That's propaganda 101.

Thankfully that won't take very long to change. The past regime changes in those countries were achieved through generational change. Change is already in motion with Millennials and Gen Z overwhelming holding a pro-Palestinian view and recognising the Israeli government as the oppressive regime they are.

More western countries will follow France's lead in ceasing weapon supply to align with the rest of the world. The last 12 months were a PR disaster for the Israelis and the situation is very clear now.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

At least in the immediate future because:

1. Western powers continue to fund and support the Zionist regime to fulfil their own agenda for the region
2. Zionists and their apologists continue to fear-monger by making it seem like Palestinians are savages in the same way black South Africans, African Americans, Jewish Europeans, indigenous populations etc were viewed as savages. That's propaganda 101.

Thankfully that won't take very long to change. The past regime changes in those countries were achieved through generational change. Change is already in motion with Millennials and Gen Z overwhelming holding a pro-Palestinian view and recognising the Israeli government as the oppressive regime they are.

More western countries will follow France's lead in ceasing weapon supply to align with the rest of the world. The last 12 months were a PR disaster for the Israelis and the situation is very clear now.

I agree, but there are 2 sides that need to change.

 

[Markfs]

More western countries will follow France's lead in ceasing weapon supply to align with the rest of the world.

"According to SIPRI, Israel’s arms imports for 2019–23 came primarily from the US (69%) and Germany (30%)."

You can hold your breath on these two "aligning" against israel.....

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Saint]

I agree, but there are 2 sides that need to change.

One side has largely been powerless to exert change. Last time the Palestinians signed up to a peace treaty with Israel, Netanyahu and friends killed the Israeli PM who signed it. Then the state of Israel reneged on the deal and oppressed the Palestinians some more.

Then, the side with all the power and carrying out the oppression took more land, committed more terrorist attacks and killed more people.

Under these circumstances, the side without power was in no position to broker for peace, and the side with all the power didn't want to and has now formally committed not to.

Saying that peace can only come when both sides change while one side is ethnically cleansing the other is cowardly. And against everything we (supposedly) learnt from the holocaust.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

One side has largely been powerless to exert change. Last time the Palestinians signed up to a peace treaty with Israel, Netanyahu and friends killed the Israeli PM who signed it. Then the state of Israel reneged on the deal and oppressed the Palestinians some more.

Then, the side with all the power and carrying out the oppression took more land, committed more terrorist attacks and killed more people.

Under these circumstances, the side without power was in no position to broker for peace, and the side with all the power didn't want to and has now formally committed not to.

Saying that peace can only come when both sides change while one side is ethnically cleansing the other is cowardly. And against everything we (supposedly) learnt from the holocaust.

I’m not talking about the Palestinians per se, I’m referring to Iran and its proxies.
They all want the destruction of the Jewish state.
It’s all well and good for some of the more moderate Arab States to say to Israel that they’ll make sure they’ll be protected, but they can’t gauarantee that.
We all need to take a broader view of the region, not just Gaza.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Even this is a strange thought process.

First of all, we're in Australia. Australia do not fund or arm Iran, any of its proxies nor have any diplomatic ties to them. Australia take the US position of viewing Iran as an enemy/antagonist and classify their proxies as terrorist organisation. What more is there to discuss? But you know who they do fund and support as if they do no wrong? The Israelis. Who don't they hold to account? The Israelis.

Perhaps they could have asked Nelson Mandela, who the US deemed as a terrorist until 2008, to settle down equally to the apartheid regime he was fighting. What purpose would it have served to ask questions of Nelson Mandela and his supporters? Is it a surprise that things got better after the apartheid regime collapsed?

Nothing will change if Hezb and Hamas vanished today because the source of the issue is still out of control and continues to receive arms. These groups originally were formed to resist Israeli occupation and oppression because it pre-dates their existence by decades. It will keep happening again and again. A total collapse and reform of the Zionist regime is the only way the place will see peace.

Iran could stop funding its proxies today and nothing will change unless they wipe out all Palestinians and neighbouring countries which is obviously not an option.

Not strange, I just have a different perspective to you, you are a good poster, so I still respect what you say, just don't agree Israel is enemy #1 here. Israel isn't innocent, but what Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are doing is not the solution. death just = more death.

Iran has involved itself in this, and they continue to involve themselves in this. Whatever comes their way now, is by their own doing.

If you throw grenades over the fence, sooner or later somethings going to come back over it.

 

[Suspense]

Despite the lengthy history, picking a side is very easy just like other atrocities in the past. At a stage, people supported the killing of indigenous populations, black Americans, apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany etc. Eventually, people came to their senses. All of those oppressed populations were demonised, labelled savages, treated as lesser humans, spread fear/propaganda among the privileged people to continue the cycle of oppression, cultivated outsider alliances to push their narrative etc. Like what happened with all of these issues, people will stop believing the BS Israeli lies as we've seen the last 12 months and they will head the way of all those other regimes that fell.

There will come a point in time when people look back and say "how the heck was this allowed".

The Nazi regime fell because they were bombed into oblivion - not because 'people eventually came to their senses'.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

In late 2022 I went on a guided tour of Egypt for a few weeks. It was an amazing experience the history, sights etc were better than expected, however it wasn’t a relaxing trip at any time.
Every time we got on the tour bus to go to the next site, the last person on the bus was an armed escort ( machine gun under his coat). The females in the group were advised to not wander around by themselves, and we were told not to wander from the hotels at night.
Now maybe the tour company was being overly cautious, but we definitely felt uncomfortable at times, and felt like eyes were on us at all times.
The Arabs we meet and dealt with were fine, but there was always an underlying tension.
Now I extrapolate this to try to get an understanding of how the Israelis may feel being surrounded by Muslim countries with radical elements.
The Israelis are obviously doing themselves no favours atm, and I’ll concede they have created many of their current issues themselves, however I can also see why they have reacted as they have.
In their eyes, they are fighting to save themselves.
So let’s say the Israelis agree to down their weapons and allow a Palestinian state free of persecution, will the Israelis be left alone?
I just can’t see it.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

 

[CM86]

Why did that person keep turning their picture towards the person filming?

And can you give me a time stamp for a single Hezbollah flag?

 

[Suspense]

The objective truth is that Iran's proxies started as a resistance group to Israeli occupation and oppression. The latter came first and gave rise to them.

If you go back far enough, it's was Islamic violence against Jewish settlers that 'came first'.

There is no reason why Arab Muslims and Christians can't co-exist with their Jewish oppressors post-Zionism just like black South Africans, African Americans, Jewish Holocaust survivors, Indigenous Australians and Native Americans can co-exist with their former oppressors once the oppressive regime was dismantled and their humanity was recognised.

Theoretically, sure. Practically, nations with ethnic and religious homogeneity tend to fare much better in that part of the world.

No one knows for sure what a single Palestinian state solution may look like, but I can't see it being a peaceful coexistence.

 

[CM86]

Unfortunately, Jay, everyone thinks it doesn't apply to them

1How much do you feel it impacts you, and 2what steps do you take to redirect yourself and attempt to offset how this could distort your views?


In fact, 3can you state which 'side' you're on? Because without knowing that, it would be impossible for you to attempt to offset your internal biases, right?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

How did he film this when he was getting arrested at a different location?



First Andy Ngo, now this guy. Which other RW clowns do you follow on twitter?

 

[IlovethePies]

The Nazi regime fell because they were bombed into oblivion - not because 'people eventually came to their senses'.

Completely wrong. The Nazi regime fell because the Red Army defeated it. Millions having sacrificed their lives in a war of annihilation against the Nazi armies, the Red Army had by 1944 become an irresistable force.

The Red Army rolled through Eastern Europe on to Berlin.

When the Allies saw that the Red Army had vanquished the Wehrmacht, they quickly organised their "second front" to invade Europe from the west in order to prevent the Red Army from progressing too far.

The much lauded "second front" was not aimed against the Nazi regime, it was aimed against the Red Army.

 

[CM86]

The Arabs we meet and dealt with were fine, but there was always an underlying tension.
Now I extrapolate this to try to get an understanding of how the Israelis may feel being surrounded by Muslim countries with radical elements.

This is why I can't read these threads for long.

 

[Chief]

 

[JayJ20]

"According to SIPRI, Israel’s arms imports for 2019–23 came primarily from the US (69%) and Germany (30%)."

You can hold your breath on these two "aligning" against israel.....

One step at a time. That's what happened with the collapse of Apartheid South Africa. It started with public opinion and protests, then grew as time went on. France publicly opposing the Israelis never happened before and would never have happened 12 months ago.

I don't expect them to oppose them any time soon, but there'll come a point where supporting them will actively become harmful just like supporting Apartheid South Africa was.

 

[CM86]

Not strange, I just have a different perspective to you, you are a good poster, so I still respect what you say, just don't agree Israel is enemy #1 here. Israel isn't innocent, but what Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are doing is not the solution. death just = more death.

Iran has involved itself in this, and they continue to involve themselves in this. Whatever comes their way now, is by their own doing.

If you throw grenades over the fence, sooner or later somethings going to come back over it.

Do you think American's deserved the attacks on September 11?

 

[Suspense]

At least in the immediate future because:

1. Western powers continue to fund and support the Zionist regime to fulfil their own agenda for the region
2. Zionists and their apologists continue to fear-monger by making it seem like Palestinians are savages in the same way black South Africans, African Americans, Jewish Europeans, indigenous populations etc were viewed as savages. That's propaganda 101.

Thankfully that won't take very long to change. The past regime changes in those countries were achieved through generational change. Change is already in motion with Millennials and Gen Z overwhelming holding a pro-Palestinian view and recognising the Israeli government as the oppressive regime they are.

More western countries will follow France's lead in ceasing weapon supply to align with the rest of the world. The last 12 months were a PR disaster for the Israelis and the situation is very clear now.

The Zionist regime will moderate and offer reasonable concessions to the Palestinians well before they are are ever 'dismantled'. If the Palestinian leaders reject reasonable concessions in favour of continued violence, public sentiment will shift away from them once again.

You are overselling the effect of the current shift in public sentiment. If there really was such an emphatic groundswell of public support that you suggest, surely the two candidates currently seeking election would seek to take advantage of this by supporting Palestinian resistance. But instead we see both candidates doubling down on their support of Israel. Weird.

Fact is - supporters of Israel hold lot of power in the US. From a public perspective, most Americans don't give a shit about Israel and they give even less of a shit about Palestinians.

The US also doesn't give a shit about what France or the rest of the West does or says - what are they going to do? Put trade sanctions on the US? Align themselves with an alternate superpower like Russia or China? Remind me, how are their human rights records? The US can wear a bit of bad PR - they've endured worse.