Israel loses the War

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Oct 4, 2003
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Beirut Centre for Research and Information Poll

The survey showed 87 percent support for Hizbullah's retaliatory attacks on northern Israel . Such a high level of support must be attributed to Hizbullah's political and military performance, in addition to a national consensus identifying Israel as Lebanon 's main enemy.

The survey suggests that Hizbullah's military performance has bolstered confidence in the resistance's abilities as 63 percent of respondents expected a Hizbullah victory over Israel .


Hezbollah Leads Work to Rebuild, Gaining Stature

As stunned Lebanese returned Tuesday over broken roads to shattered apartments in the south, it increasingly seemed that the beneficiary of the destruction was most likely to be Hezbollah.

A major reason — in addition to its hard-won reputation as the only Arab force that fought Israel to a standstill — is that it is already dominating the efforts to rebuild with a torrent of money from oil-rich Iran.

Nehme Y. Tohme, a member of Parliament from the anti-Syrian reform bloc and the country’s minister for the displaced, said he had been told by Hezbollah officials that when the shooting stopped, Iran would provide Hezbollah with an “unlimited budget” for reconstruction.

Hezbollah’s reputation as an efficient grass-roots social service network — as opposed to the Lebanese government, regarded by many here as sleek men in suits doing well — was in evidence everywhere. Young men with walkie-talkies and clipboards were in the battered Shiite neighborhoods on the southern edge of Bint Jbail, taking notes on the extent of the damage.

Sheik Nasrallah said in his speech that “the brothers in the towns and villages will turn to those whose homes are badly damaged and help rebuild them.

“Today is the day to keep up our promises,” he said. “All our brothers will be in your service starting tomorrow.”


So Israel set out to destroy Hezbollah only to make them stronger. Meanwhile:
Public believes IDF not winning the war

Most Israelis do not buy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's declaration that Israel is winning its war against Hezbollah, and most also oppose expanding the ground operation in Lebanon, as the cabinet decided in principle to do on Wednesday, a Haaretz poll has found.

The poll, conducted Wednesday and yesterday among 570 Israelis, also revealed a marked decline in support for the government, and particularly for Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz.

Only 20 percent of respondents said that if the war ended today, it would be possible to declare Israel the winner. Some 30 percent said that Israel is losing, while 44 percent said that neither side is winning.
 
moistie said:
Beirut Centre for Research and Information Poll

The survey showed 87 percent support for Hizbullah's retaliatory attacks on northern Israel . Such a high level of support must be attributed to Hizbullah's political and military performance, in addition to a national consensus identifying Israel as Lebanon 's main enemy.

The survey suggests that Hizbullah's military performance has bolstered confidence in the resistance's abilities as 63 percent of respondents expected a Hizbullah victory over Israel .


Hezbollah Leads Work to Rebuild, Gaining Stature

As stunned Lebanese returned Tuesday over broken roads to shattered apartments in the south, it increasingly seemed that the beneficiary of the destruction was most likely to be Hezbollah.

A major reason — in addition to its hard-won reputation as the only Arab force that fought Israel to a standstill — is that it is already dominating the efforts to rebuild with a torrent of money from oil-rich Iran.

Nehme Y. Tohme, a member of Parliament from the anti-Syrian reform bloc and the country’s minister for the displaced, said he had been told by Hezbollah officials that when the shooting stopped, Iran would provide Hezbollah with an “unlimited budget” for reconstruction.

Hezbollah’s reputation as an efficient grass-roots social service network — as opposed to the Lebanese government, regarded by many here as sleek men in suits doing well — was in evidence everywhere. Young men with walkie-talkies and clipboards were in the battered Shiite neighborhoods on the southern edge of Bint Jbail, taking notes on the extent of the damage.

Sheik Nasrallah said in his speech that “the brothers in the towns and villages will turn to those whose homes are badly damaged and help rebuild them.

“Today is the day to keep up our promises,” he said. “All our brothers will be in your service starting tomorrow.”


So Israel set out to destroy Hezbollah only to make them stronger. Meanwhile:
Public believes IDF not winning the war

Most Israelis do not buy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's declaration that Israel is winning its war against Hezbollah, and most also oppose expanding the ground operation in Lebanon, as the cabinet decided in principle to do on Wednesday, a Haaretz poll has found.

The poll, conducted Wednesday and yesterday among 570 Israelis, also revealed a marked decline in support for the government, and particularly for Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz.

Only 20 percent of respondents said that if the war ended today, it would be possible to declare Israel the winner. Some 30 percent said that Israel is losing, while 44 percent said that neither side is winning.

Public opinion doesn't count for much unfortunately. The fact of the matter is Israel went into a battle started by the Hezbollah*, and are leaving the battle with the Lebanese government now far more in control then they were before.

The deaths of hundreds of Hezbollah terrorists will go down as a long term victory for Israel and the world.

These terrorists were caught off guard with the attacks and won't be kidnapping anymore innocent Israeli soldiers anytime soon. Nor will they attack Israel/ the rest of the free world without hesitation, knowing the punishment they will receive.

It's sad it has had to come to this though. I hope peace can now begin to prevail...although with these anti- western groups still in existence...it's hard to see the battles ending anytime soon.

* Reference to my statement:

July 12

Main article: Zar'it-Ayta ash-Shab incident
Hezbollah
• Hezbollah launches Katyusha rockets across the Lebanese border with Israel as a diversionary tactic, targeting the town of Shlomi and outposts in the Shebaa Farms area in Israel. Hezbollah claims its objective is to free 10,000 Arabs captured by Israel.[1]
• Hezbollah's military wing staged a cross-border attack in northern Israel on two Israeli Humvees. Three Israeli soldiers were killed and two were kidnapped, with several civilians deliberately injured. "Fulfilling its pledge to liberate the Arab prisoners and detainees, the Islamic Resistance... captured two Israeli soldiers (Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev) at the border with occupied Palestine," Hezbollah said in a statement.[2]
• The United States condemns what they call Hizbullah's "unprovoked act of terrorism" by saying:
"Today Hizballah terrorists operating from Lebanon kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and launched rocket attacks against civilian targets in Israel. The United States condemns in the strongest terms this unprovoked act of terrorism, which was timed to exacerbate already high tensions in the region and sow further violence. We also hold Syria and Iran, which have provided long-standing support for Hizballah, responsible for today's violence. We call for the immediate and unconditional release of the Israeli soldiers."
- Wikipedia
 

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Sweet Dreams Moistie.

1. Hezbollah - two years minimum of builders labouring in front of it.

2 Hezbollah - won't be killing and kidnapping Israeli soldiers any time soon.

3 Hezbollah - won't be attacking into Shebaa Farms no more, no more..

4 Hezbollah - won't be getting any significant arms from Syria and Iran without Israelis dropping nasty bombs on border crossings.

5 Hezbollah - Katyusha rockets extremely inaccurate.

6 Hezbollah - very good anti tank missiles but useless now Israel will plan against them.

7 Hezbollah - won't be able to take over Lebanese Govt because Damascus might end up looking like South Beirut.

8 Hezbollah - won't be able to make much of a diversion now if George Bush needs to set back Iran's nuclear program.

9 Hezbollah - next time might be facing off Netanyahu

10 Hezbollah - if there is next time - will face full IDF and full invasion - not a token 2000 to 10,000.

But yes, Israel lost the war. Sure did.
 
GuruJane said:
Sweet Dreams Moistie.

1. Hezbollah - two years minimum of builders labouring in front of it.

Unlikely, with Arab money flooding in.

2 Hezbollah - won't be killing and kidnapping Israeli soldiers any time soon.

Unless Israel do so first, like the last multiple times.

3 Hezbollah - won't be attacking into Shebaa Farms no more, no more..

Unless Israel don't withdraw.

4 Hezbollah - won't be getting any significant arms from Syria and Iran without Israelis dropping nasty bombs on border crossings.

Unlikely.

5 Hezbollah - Katyusha rockets extremely inaccurate.

Irrelevant.

6 Hezbollah - very good anti tank missiles but useless now Israel will plan against them.

What, like making tanks invisible?

7 Hezbollah - won't be able to take over Lebanese Govt because Damascus might end up looking like South Beirut.

Untrue, they'll probably get voted back with even stronger representation.

Israel wouldn't touch Syria.

8 Hezbollah - won't be able to make much of a diversion now if George Bush needs to set back Iran's nuclear program.

Hezbollah have barely been damaged. Rubbish.

9 Hezbollah - next time might be facing off Netanyahu

If Israel vote for that terrorist sympathiser, they will lose even more global support.

10 Hezbollah - if there is next time - will face full IDF and full invasion - not a token 2000 to 10,000.

Pure speculation.

But yes, Israel lost the war. Sure did.

Yes, they did.
 
FIGJAM said:
Israel lost?

Was Don King the promoter of something??

Of course they lost.

Israel failed to weaken Hezbollah, in fact they strengthened them.

Israel failed to retrieve there captured soldiers, and will therefore have to exchange arab prisoners for there release, which is exactly what Hezbollah proposed originally.
 
Lestat said:
Of course they lost.

Israel failed to weaken Hezbollah, in fact they strengthened them.

Israel failed to retrieve there captured soldiers, and will therefore have to exchange arab prisoners for there release, which is exactly what Hezbollah proposed originally.
Yeah, like the two soldiers were their objective!
 
Lestat said:
Of course they lost.

Israel failed to weaken Hezbollah, in fact they strengthened them.

Israel failed to retrieve there captured soldiers, and will therefore have to exchange arab prisoners for there release, which is exactly what Hezbollah proposed originally.

Israel has about 20 Hezbollah prisoners now for the swap.

Hezbollah are heroes in the Arab street. So was Nasser after '67. He tried to resign and the "street" wept and implored him to stay.

Hezbollah will need their new muscles for all the rebuilding they're gonna have to do.

And if they play up after that the Israelis will just bomb them down again. Won't happen.
 

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FIGJAM said:
Yeah, like the two soldiers were their objective!

So what was their objective?

To weaken Hezbollah. Yeah that really worked.

Hezbollah are stronger then ever, with more support then they could ever have dreamed of before the war.

Even the Lebenese Christians are now supporting Hezbollah.
 
Frodo said:
Israel suffers daily missile attacks from Lebannon

More lies from Frodo.

Hezbollah only started firing rockets AFTER Israel started the aerial bombardment of Lebenese cities.

Besides, Hezbollah are still more then capable of firing rockets into Israel.

The IDF achieved nothing. And they know it.

Heads are going to roll for this debacle. Perhaps you ought to read what the Israeli press are saying about this. They know very well that they have failed.
 
it is most likely that Hezbollah (excuse spelling) wanted nothing more than Israel to do what they did in going into Lebanon.

It is a pity God didn't think of the "turn the other cheek" thing until the New Testament;) I mean it is understandable that Israel acted as they did, as in a way it was understandable that the US went after Iraq. But really achieved questionable outcomes for significant loss of life on all sides.
 
GuruJane said:
Here's the test:

Which side would turn the clock back to July 12 if they could?

Not Israel.

And probably not Hezbollah either.

Lebanon as a country and government would probably say yes to such a suggestion though.
 
funkyfreo said:
And probably not Hezbollah either.

Lebanon as a country and government would probably say yes to such a suggestion though.

Hezbollah wouldn't want to turn back the clock?

Don't you think they enjoyed having total control of the South for six years?

Do you think they prefer that 15,000 Lebanese army are being greeted with rice and flowers by the locals as they deploy and a substantial UN force will be arriving?

And how about stirring up the Israelis? If they do that again the Israelis will be able to point to a ceasefire violation, not by Hezbollah, but by the Lebanese Army permitting it. Isarel can then use that as a pretext to bomb Beirut proper.

Nope. Hezbollah has been well and truly hobbled for the forseeable future compared to the control and autonomy they had before July 12. It will give them the sh*ts but not much they can do about it until they've got the south rebuilt.

As for Lebanon itself - mixed. On the one hand they've suffered terrible damage. On the other they at last have been able to move into the south for the first time since the PLO moved there in 1970.

So the govt has the opportunity now to govern properly for the whole country.
 
How do you think the 2 foes are going to go in the next election?

Olmert has been smashed politically (plus he cant slip inot military fatigues like his predecessors) and I think Hezbollah may be close to a stunning increase in representation.

Syria win and Iran really win, Hezbollah win by the fact they didn't lose and Israel lose by the fact they didn't win ....Israel expect to win and win decisively in these battles (when was the last battle where they didnt achieve their objectives?)
 
Moo said:
How do you think the 2 foes are going to go in the next election?

Olmert has been smashed politically (plus he cant slip inot military fatigues like his predecessors) and I think Hezbollah may be close to a stunning increase in representation.

Syria win and Iran really win, Hezbollah win by the fact they didn't lose and Israel lose by the fact they didn't win ....Israel expect to win and win decisively in these battles (when was the last battle where they didnt achieve their objectives?)

Why do you support a terrorist movement? Do you actually want them to succeed? Who are you arguing for?
 
GuruJane said:
Hezbollah wouldn't want to turn back the clock?

Don't you think they enjoyed having total control of the South for six years?

Do you think they prefer that 15,000 Lebanese army are being greeted with rice and flowers by the locals as they deploy and a substantial UN force will be arriving?

And how about stirring up the Israelis? If they do that again the Israelis will be able to point to a ceasefire violation, not by Hezbollah, but by the Lebanese Army permitting it. Isarel can then use that as a pretext to bomb Beirut proper.

Nope. Hezbollah has been well and truly hobbled for the forseeable future compared to the control and autonomy they had before July 12. It will give them the sh*ts but not much they can do about it until they've got the south rebuilt.

As for Lebanon itself - mixed. On the one hand they've suffered terrible damage. On the other they at last have been able to move into the south for the first time since the PLO moved there in 1970.

So the govt has the opportunity now to govern properly for the whole country.

No - I think they pretty much exist to antagonise a war so they can at least Die martys. INviting judgement day on themselves. It is almost as if the glorious death is the perfect end game. I'm not suggesting they have had any sort of miliatary superiority.

As for your last line - true - but would have been nice for it not to have been bombed to pieces 1st.

You seem to think I'm on their side - I'm just saying that war and conflict do seem to be the desired agenda of Extremist Islamic Militias.
 

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