Israel loses the War

[just maybe]

This is the biggest incorrect assumption in the whole event!

If the objective was to rescue the two soldiers, then bombing the likely places that they likely would be, was an idiotic way to go about it.

Israel unleashed an ass kicking against the scum Hezbollah. Hezbollah expected token retalliation, but after years of chipping away, with silent support from the Lebanese community, they got what they deserved. The end!

Thanks for your conspiracy theories and spin.

 

[just maybe]

Any Buddha would tell you that you cannot hide behind the "innocent".

Karma extends not just to those directly involved, but to extended groups.

For example, if Howard were to go to Java and capture a couple of soldiers, then the retalliation would not just involve Howard and the Liberal party, it would be against the whole of Australia.

You cannot use the innocent as a shield to negative action. That's the way the Law works.

As the Great Master Prophet Jesus (PBOH) said "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.". The reason is, you cannot escape you actions. You cannot stick your head in the sand. If you've threatened innocent life, your's will be threatened!

That is Karma in action, and as much as you stomp your feet about it, it is why Lebanon has had to endure what it has had to endure. The only way to fix it, is to collectively alter your spirit to one of revenge and hate, to one of love and forgiving. But don't believe me, read your Great Book:

"Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of (the meed) that the hands of men have earned, that (God) may give them a taste of some of their deeds: in order that they may turn back (from Evil). (The Quran, 30:41)"

"And indeed We will make them taste of the Penalty of this (life) prior to the supreme Penalty, in order that they may (repent and) return. (The Quran, 32:21)"

Nanoo-nanoo?

 

[FIGJAM]

Nanoo-nanoo?

Yet another insightful contribution from the village idiot!

Here's something you might understand:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

 

[Lestat]

Any Buddha would tell you that you cannot hide behind the "innocent".

So what would he say about killing innocents?

Karma extends not just to those directly involved, but to extended groups.

Precisely. Does this logic not apply to Israel.

For example, if Howard were to go to Java and capture a couple of soldiers, then the retalliation would not just involve Howard and the Liberal party, it would be against the whole of Australia.

Just like how Israel invaded Lebennon is 82, and still to this day holds thousands of Lebenese prisoners, many of them woman and children.

Is this Israeli actions not against the whole of Lebenon.

And doesn't this Karma extend to those prisoners? Or don't they matter as much as those two 'kidnapped' soldiers.

Tell me FIGJAM, does Karma apply to some more then others?

You cannot use the innocent as a shield to negative action. That's the way the Law works.

Have Hezbollah used innocents as shields, those same innocents that so happen to be there family and friends (yes, Hezbollah are made up of shi'ite Lebenese, so what you are really saying is that they are using there family as shields)? Do you have any evidence of this, or are you just taking the word of the media.

What do you say to the Lebenese man on BBC last week who was crying after returning to his home in a village.He swore that there was no Hezbollah presence in his village. Are you saying he is a liar?

And what of Tripoli, a city in the north of Lebennon made up of mainly Sunni and Maronite's, with NO Hezbollah presence. How do you justify the numerous bombing raids against Tripoli.

And the numerous ambulances which were hit directly by Israeli missiles....let me guess, Hezbollah were hiding inside them.

Mate, your a smart guy, why do you let the pro-zionist media do your thinking for you?

As the Great Master Prophet Jesus (PBOH) said "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.". The reason is, you cannot escape you actions. You cannot stick your head in the sand. If you've threatened innocent life, your's will be threatened!

And the Great Prophet Jesus (pbuh) also said
"‘When I sent you out without purse and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you? And they said, ‘No, nothing.’ And He said to them, ‘But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one." Luke 22:35-36

Note the words, "LET HIM WHO HAS NO SWORD SELL HIS ROBE AND BUY ONE."

This is saying that one has the right to self defence. It was Israel that invaded Lebennon in 82. It is Israel which continues to occupy Lebenese land, and it Israel that still holds thousands of political prisoners.

Hezbollah has every right to resist, and battle to have these Lebenese prisoners released. Hezbollah has every right to demand the exchange of these two IDF soldiers for the thousands of Lebenese prisoners held for over 20 years in Israeli prisoners.

Unless of course you believe that the freedom of two IDF prisoners is of much higher value then the freedom of thousands of Lebenese.

Let us ponder on these wise words of the Prophet Isa (Jesus) pbuh.

"When a strong man fully armed, guards his own homestead, his possessions are undisturbed; but when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armour on which he had relied, and distributes his plunder." (Luke 11:21-22)

That is Karma in action, and as much as you stomp your feet about it, it is why Lebanon has had to endure what it has had to endure. The only way to fix it, is to collectively alter your spirit to one of revenge and hate, to one of love and forgiving. But don't believe me, read your Great Book:

I agree with all you say about Karma. However, there is one massive problem with your logic.

You seem to have the deluded idea that it is Israel that is the victim.

I suggest that you go to Lebenon or Gaza, and see for yourself what the 'victim' Israel is up to.

If not, then I suggest you watch the video that I posted called 'Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land'.

Hear that the Jews have to say about the actions of terrorist state of Israel.

"Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of (the meed) that the hands of men have earned, that (God) may give them a taste of some of their deeds: in order that they may turn back (from Evil). (The Quran, 30:41)"

"And indeed We will make them taste of the Penalty of this (life) prior to the supreme Penalty, in order that they may (repent and) return. (The Quran, 32:21)"

Indeed.

So tell me FIGJAM, why do you apply your 'Karma' and these verses of the Quran to Hezbollah, who are the weaker party defending there land, and the rights to freedom of the thousands of Lebenese prisoners held in Jails for over 20 years, that its seems you don't care about....and not the 4th most powerful military in the world, which has invaded Lebenon, whilst occupying and persecuting the Palestinian people, and killing thousands of innocents every year.

Where is your Karma?

 

[just maybe]

Yet another insightful contribution from the village idiot!

As opposed to telling everyone the Bible is a complex karma ritual and if they don't believe it they're just wrong and you're right like a petulant child?

Here's something you might understand:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Here's something you might understand:

"Religion was created by man to control his fellows, out of ignorance, or due to some feelings of helplessness"

 

[just maybe]

What are we to condemn Hezbollah for again?

For deliberately targeting civilians. For deliberately targeting civilian areas. For celebrating the deaths of Israeli civilians. For using civilians as cover to fire their missiles from.

What a sad world this has become.

When you can't condemn the above, despite the fact it contravenes your religion, just because Hezbollah are members of your religion, yes, it is very sad.

 

[Lestat]

For deliberately targeting civilians. For deliberately targeting civilian areas. For celebrating the deaths of Israeli civilians.

If Hezbollah are guilty of these things (big if), then yes, they should be condemned.

However, the evidence suggests otherwise.

For using civilians as cover to fire their missiles from.

So tell me JM, what do you suggest they do, given that they are hopelessly outnumbered, and as more the military might, I think you know that the IDF far outpower Lebennon militarily.

So what are they supposed to do when Israel bomb the bejesus out of Lebannon? Just do nothing? What are you suggesting.

What are they supposed to do about the thousands of prisoners held in Israeli jails since 1982? What...do nothing?

Wait for 'international' justice? How long do they wait? Another 30 years.

And given that ALL Israeli civilians are also military personal (apart from the elderly and children), I wonder, how many 'civilians' did Hezbollah target and kill.

I can assure you, Israel targetted plenty more.

When you can't condemn the above, despite the fact it contravenes your religion, just because Hezbollah are members of your religion, yes, it is very sad.

Well, no they are NOT members of my religon. They are shi'ite, and I am sunni. However, I can see the bigger picture, and I'm sure you'll agree that everyone, I mean everyone has the right to self defence, no matter what race, or religon they are!

 

[just maybe]

If Hezbollah are guilty of these things (big if), then yes, they should be condemned.

However, the evidence suggests otherwise.

No, it doesn't.

So tell me JM, what do you suggest they do, given that they are hopelessly outnumbered, and as more the military might, I think you know that the IDF far outpower Lebennon militarily.

So what are they supposed to do when Israel bomb the bejesus out of Lebannon? Just do nothing? What are you suggesting.

What are they supposed to do about the thousands of prisoners held in Israeli jails since 1982? What...do nothing?

Wait for 'international' justice? How long do they wait? Another 30 years.

And given that ALL Israeli civilians are also military personal (apart from the elderly and children), I wonder, how many 'civilians' did Hezbollah target and kill.

I can assure you, Israel targetted plenty more.

You know very well I condemn Israel. But I also condemn Hezbollah's crimes as well.

It sickens me that you cannot come out and do the same and keep skirting round the issue and turning it onto Israel. NONE of what you posted above is relevant or justifies Hezbollah's crimes.

This isn't about Israel. This is about Hezbollah's behaviour.

Well, no they are NOT members of my religon. They are shi'ite, and I am sunni. However, I can see the bigger picture, and I'm sure you'll agree that everyone, I mean everyone has the right to self defence, no matter what race, or religon they are!

You may be different sects, but you're all Muslims - as you said, a Muslim in Lebanon means more to you than a random Australian.

So yes, it is simply sad and sickening that you refuse to criticise their crimes despite condemning Israel for the same thing.

Evil has no scale, Lestat. That you dally around and refrain from condemnation of Hezbollah's actions while simultaneously criticising Israel is simply wrong.

 

[FIGJAM]

Lestat, I am not on Israel's side.

It's a "glass half empty" perception issue. If you choose to look at one or the other as victims, then everyone cultivates justification for their actions, and the Karma continues until it has been exhausted. As such, I stand by my original opinion that both sides are losers.

But please don't cry "victim" for Lebanon. They copped their whack.

Karma can be met in one of two ways. Both sides are choosing the wrong way.

 

[just maybe]

Lestat, I am not on Israel's side.

It's a "glass half empty" perception issue. If you choose to look at one or the other as victims, then everyone cultivates justification for their actions, and the Karma continues until it has been exhausted. As such, I stand by my original opinion that both sides are losers.

But please don't cry "victim" for Lebanon. They copped their whack.

Karma can be met in one of two ways. Both sides are choosing the wrong way.

What a disgusting attitude toward Lebanon. Completely inhuman.

 

[Lestat]

No, it doesn't.

Yes it does.

You know very well I condemn Israel. But I also condemn Hezbollah's crimes as well.

It sickens me that you cannot come out and do the same and keep skirting round the issue and turning it onto Israel. NONE of what you posted above is relevant or justifies Hezbollah's crimes.

Please answer my question.

What do you suggest they do?

This isn't about Israel. This is about Hezbollah's behaviour.

Of course its about Israel. Hezbollah is a reaction to the actions of Israel. Perahps you ought to look at the picture, this has been going on longer then 4 weeks you know.

You may be different sects, but you're all Muslims - as you said, a Muslim in Lebanon means more to you than a random Australian.

However, my point is I have no reason to defend Hezbollah based on religon. On the contrary, many Sunni's are critical of Hezbollah on the basis of there faith alone.

The same Sunni's that sit by and do nothing whilst there fellow Sunni's are mudered in the thousands.

So yes, it is simply sad and sickening that you refuse to criticise their crimes despite condemning Israel for the same thing.

So you believe that it is a crime to defend oneself?

Do you beleive that Hezbollah committed a crime by kidnapping to Israeli soldiers, in the hope to exchange them for some of the hundreds of Lebenese prisoners in Israel?

Or was it a crime that Hezbollah fired Katushya rockets (which lets be honest, cannot target anything let alone civilians) in response to the thousands of missiles and shells that Israel fired at Lebennon.

Simple question JM, can you please answer it. What do you suggest that Hezbollah can do, which "ISN't" a crime in your eyes.

Evil has no scale, Lestat. That you dally around and refrain from condemnation of Hezbollah's actions while simultaneously criticising Israel is simply wrong.

I will condemn Hezbollah when they attack and kill for no reason. When they are defending there homes, and the freedom of there loved ones, who am I to attack them.

And until you know what its like to have a friend or family member sitting in Jail for 22 years, with no charge, then you have no right to judge.

 

[Lestat]

Lestat, I am not on Israel's side.

But it appears that you are.

It's a "glass half empty" perception issue. If you choose to look at one or the other as victims, then everyone cultivates justification for their actions, and the Karma continues until it has been exhausted. As such, I stand by my original opinion that both sides are losers.

What you fail to consider, is that 'one side', that is the Lebenese have been losers now for what...30 years?

Some no longer have anything to lose.

But please don't cry "victim" for Lebanon. They copped their whack.

Its a shame that you can't feel any sympathy for a Lebenese man who has been in prison for over 30 years, for doing nothing wrong but defending his home from foreign invasion.

They've been 'copping there wack' for over 30 years FIGJAM? When do you think that enough is enough.

Karma can be met in one of two ways. Both sides are choosing the wrong way.

However, one side has no other choice. And it aint the Israeli's.

 

[just maybe]

Yes it does.

No it doesn't. There's been quotes of them celebrating civilian deaths. They have deliberately and indiscriminately targeted civilian areas.

Please answer my question.

What do you suggest they do?



Of course its about Israel. Hezbollah is a reaction to the actions of Israel. Perahps you ought to look at the picture, this has been going on longer then 4 weeks you know.

Don't George Galloway on me, Lestat. You of all people should know my opposition to Israel.

Stop shirking the issue. What I am talking about is NOTHING to do with Israel. I am talking about Hezbollah's behaviour, not Israel's. Hezbollah are solely responsible for the tactics they use.

Why will you not condemn Hezbollah's criminal tactics when you happily condemn Israel's? Why the double standard?

However, my point is I have no reason to defend Hezbollah based on religon. On the contrary, many Sunni's are critical of Hezbollah on the basis of there faith alone.

The same Sunni's that sit by and do nothing whilst there fellow Sunni's are mudered in the thousands.

But they're still a Muslim group that you have a Muslim affinity to.

So you believe that it is a crime to defend oneself?

Careful, that same argument can equally be used for Israel, remember?

Do you beleive that Hezbollah committed a crime by kidnapping to Israeli soldiers, in the hope to exchange them for some of the hundreds of Lebenese prisoners in Israel?

Yes. Just because the other side committed a crime doesn't mean you haven't committed one.

Or was it a crime that Hezbollah fired Katushya rockets (which lets be honest, cannot target anything let alone civilians) in response to the thousands of missiles and shells that Israel fired at Lebennon.

Yes. Deliberate bombardment of civilian areas is a war crime.

Simple question JM, can you please answer it. What do you suggest that Hezbollah can do, which "ISN't" a crime in your eyes.

Target military rather than Israeli cities and villages.

I will condemn Hezbollah when they attack and kill for no reason. When they are defending there homes, and the freedom of there loved ones, who am I to attack them.

And until you know what its like to have a friend or family member sitting in Jail for 22 years, with no charge, then you have no right to judge.

Who are you to condemn Israel then, by equal rights?

Hezbollah have deliberately targeted Israeli civilian areas, celebrated Israeli civilian deaths, and used their own civilians as cover to fire their missiles from, endangering their own people.

Your blanker condemnation of Israel but equal failure to condemn Hezbollah's tactics is a gross and blatant hypocrisy by yourself.

You have still yet to answer my question and keep shirking round the issue, here it is again:

Why will you not condemn Hezbollah's criminal tactics when you happily condemn Israel's? Why the double standard?

 

[Lestat]

No it doesn't. There's been quotes of them celebrating civilian deaths. They have deliberately and indiscriminately targeted civilian areas.



Don't George Galloway on me, Lestat. You of all people should know my opposition to Israel.

Stop shirking the issue. What I am talking about is NOTHING to do with Israel. I am talking about Hezbollah's behaviour, not Israel's. Hezbollah are solely responsible for the tactics they use.

Why will you not condemn Hezbollah's criminal tactics when you happily condemn Israel's? Why the double standard?



But they're still a Muslim group that you have a Muslim affinity to.



Careful, that same argument can equally be used for Israel, remember?



Yes. Just because the other side committed a crime doesn't mean you haven't committed one.



Yes. Deliberate bombardment of civilian areas is a war crime.



Target military rather than Israeli cities and villages.



Who are you to condemn Israel then, by equal rights?

Hezbollah have deliberately targeted Israeli civilian areas, celebrated Israeli civilian deaths, and used their own civilians as cover to fire their missiles from, endangering their own people.

Your blanker condemnation of Israel but equal failure to condemn Hezbollah's tactics is a gross and blatant hypocrisy by yourself.

You have still yet to answer my question and keep shirking round the issue, here it is again:

Why will you not condemn Hezbollah's criminal tactics when you happily condemn Israel's? Why the double standard?

JM, you still have avoided my question.

What do you suggest that Hezbollah do? When you answer this question, then I will answer yours.

 

[just maybe]

JM, you still have avoided my question.

What do you suggest that Hezbollah do? When you answer this question, then I will answer yours.

Lestat, I asked the question first. Stop being such a cowardly shirker. Are you going to be that pathetic in your defense of Hezbollah that you will keep running from the question put to you?

And, funnily enough - I already answered your question. I have not avoided it whatsoever. Did you not bother to read what I wrote, Lestat?

 

[Qsaint]

Here's something you might understand:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Newton
Physics


and the Biggy LOGIC

You got to be kidding

 

[Qsaint]

Have Hezbollah used innocents as shields, those same innocents that so happen to be there family and friends (yes, Hezbollah are made up of shi'ite Lebenese, so what you are really saying is that they are using there family as shields)? Do you have any evidence of this, or are you just taking the word of the media.

?

The same UN and Red Cresent that you use to justify your arguments also agree Hezbollah used Human Shields

 

[Qsaint]

What do you suggest that Hezbollah do? When you answer this question, then I will answer yours.

Read about Ghandi or talk to Nelon Mandela, Archbishop Tutu or the Dali Lama


Hizbollah's existence will not continue if they continually incite violence

 

[littleduck]

Israel can't stop lobbing bombs over the border yet bcoz they havent yet achieved al their objectives. Another few weeks of lobbing bombs and strategic assaults and theyll be in a position to stop and go around back slapping a minor victory.

I don't truly understand this war.

What I do know is that the only lasting peace is for both sides to recognise each others territory and live side by side. As such, Hezbollah will never ever achieve its ultimate objective of obliterating Israel from the face of the earth.

 

[MSR273]

Israel was hitting non-Hez targets as well ......if a crook runs into a crowd of people and a cop starts shooting - we would hardly pat the cop on the back and say you have killed 5 regular citizens but you got the baddy.

More kids than fighters were killed ...go Israel - those who planned this carnage and attacks on infrastructure are just dogs.

Not really the same situation is it.

After 9/11, the US has made it clear that hijacked planes may be shot down, even though it may contain hundreds of innocent civillians.

Those cowards who use citizens as shields must accept responsibility for the resulting civillian causaulties.

 

[FIGJAM]

Newton
Physics


and the Biggy LOGIC

You got to be kidding

What is your problem with what I've said?

 

[MSR273]

Have Hezbollah used innocents as shields, those same innocents that so happen to be there family and friends (yes, Hezbollah are made up of shi'ite Lebenese, so what you are really saying is that they are using there family as shields)? Do you have any evidence of this, or are you just taking the word of the media.

http://www.better-english.com/easier/theyre.htm

 

[Total Power]

Yet another insightful contribution from the village idiot!

Here's something you might understand:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Have you read the article on karma i PMed a week or so ago FIGJAM? i reckon its bollocks and theories in reincarnation was created to support this theory. How would you explain a rapist leading a life full of pleasure and wealth and then die peacefully without any negative consequences who cares what happens after death, cause we do not know what happens after death, its the karma in this lifetime which matters most.Anyway, this is not a religion thread but thought i'd mention this.

 

[FIGJAM]

Have you read the article on karma i PMed a week or so ago FIGJAM? i reckon its bollocks and theories in reincarnation was created to support this theory. How would you explain a rapist leading a life full of pleasure and wealth and then die peacefully without any negative consequences who cares what happens after death, cause we do not know what happens after death, its the karma in this lifetime which matters most.Anyway, this is not a religion thread but thought i'd mention this.

Not the time and place. Suffice to say, there is no difference between physical energy, or spiritual energy. Like physics, energy does not disappear, but it simply changes form.

Not for this thread though.

 

[cos789]

What I do know is that the only lasting peace is for both sides to recognise each others territory and live side by side. .

There's as much chance of that as you giving up trolling on Australian Football boards .