News Jack Dyer Stand -Demolition Has Begun

[RockJobster0312]

nobody has any costings on here, we are collectively clueless on that front

what we can say is, if we apparently costed for a 4 storey underground carpark(!!), then there is money to refurb the stand twice over.

That we are able to dig to Belgium to make a place to put cars tells you cost is not a relevant issue in this case, so any 'it's too expensive to fix the JDS' post can be discounted immediately.

Space, position, heritage value etc. are the relevant factors to debate.

I’ve spent all my career working within major projects, both property and infrastructure, including upgrades to a major sporting stadium in another state that has a longer history of heritage value that PRO, where the updates allowed the AFL to play there on a consistent basis.

I am extremely confident that the costings to refurbish the JDS would be significantly greater than what is proposed.

That’s before including required updates to DDA compliance (Ramps and lifts - which in itself would need a greater footprint to include), updates to wet areas and building standards (e.g. removal of asbestos).

I would also be extremely confident in saying that the proposal for a new stand would include costings that include a revenue generating element within it. The car parking would be part of that, but increased facilities for food and beverage (likely leased out to third parties) would also be part of that.

This would be both a key plank for the club for profit generation to maintain a stand alone VFL, AFLW and VFLW teams, but also likely a requirement of the State government funding in the first place.

The opportunity for revenue generation of a refurbished JDS would still be limited (size etc).

Maybe the underground carpark is a requirement for approval. The new design seems to blend in with the park setting. An above ground 4 storey carpark would stick out like dogs testicles as well as taking up precious park land

This is likely. It’s why every stadium on Olympic Ave has its own car park.

Yeah we would have a limited footprint to build on. The council would never approve something that is going to take up existing greenery in that area hence why demolishing the JDS is the only option.

The footprint is EXTREMELY small. Bordered by Punt Road and Brunson Road on two sides (neither will be re-aligned), and the MCG which has extremely locked in land tenure arrangements (would need an act of parliament to revoke land status of any part of it)

This is why other examples provided here are somewhat poor as they’ve bigger land footprints or could have bigger land footprints.

 

[acr2751]

You see only negatives, fine, but I see opportunity, see my post above about the VIS state-of-the-art training facilities at the once-decrepit 1926 stand at Lakeside Oval.

Soooo many things can be made of the JDS, incredible potential.

BUT, we will need former club champions/board members to lead it, our Pascoe and Morwood as the Sydney Swans had in 2005, people with a love for the club and it's history but also a positive vision for retaining that into the future.

if the club put a sign on it free to a good home remove at your cost who would take it?

 

[tigerfan1961]

my god, there is money to be made from the JDS!! It is absolute gold to have that position, with that history, and with that branding (Capt. blood).

I agree, I don't prefer the hybrid model that saved the 1926 Grandstand at South Melbourne, but the incorporation of elite training facilities is highly relevant to what RFC want to do.

I prefer retaining primary purpose as a seated grandstand, which, when refurbished, will attract an elite member category who will be allowed to purchase reserved-seat season tickets for VFL and AFLW games. There is (IMO) a subsection of Tiger fans who are diehard Tigers that love the club's history, feel a connection to the JDS and PRO, have deep pockets, and will pay in advance for a reserved seat in what would be the ultimate membership package that RFC offers ('Capt Blood' packages).

I believe there would eventually be a long waiting list for these reserved seats, they could even be grandfathered within families as generations come and go.

A modernized JDS (within heritage limits) could be a marketing and monetizing wet dream for the club. We will never be able to attract a similar premium for seats in a brand new, cookie-cutter-generic stand.

And where exactly do all of the staff work from given it will primarily a seated grandstand based on your wishes above? Geez, the whole reason we have put forward the plan we have is to house all of the clubs operations on site. I’d agree we renovate it if it can incorporate the required office and other spaces to house the clubs staffing and other needs but it clearly cannot be done.
Knock it down as it is a hindrance to our future needs and is well past its use by date.

 

[tigerfan1961]

I’ve spent all my career working within major projects, both property and infrastructure, including upgrades to a major sporting stadium in another state that has a longer history of heritage value that PRO, where the updates allowed the AFL to play there on a consistent basis.

I am extremely confident that the costings to refurbish the JDS would be significantly greater than what is proposed.

That’s before including required updates to DDA compliance (Ramps and lifts - which in itself would need a greater footprint to include), updates to wet areas and building standards (e.g. removal of asbestos).

I would also be extremely confident in saying that the proposal for a new stand would include costings that include a revenue generating element within it. The car parking would be part of that, but increased facilities for food and beverage (likely leased out to third parties) would also be part of that.

This would be both a key plank for the club for profit generation to maintain a stand alone VFL, AFLW and VFLW teams, but also likely a requirement of the State government funding in the first place.

The opportunity for revenue generation of a refurbished JDS would still be limited (size etc).

Maybe the underground carpark is a requirement for approval. The new design seems to blend in with the park setting. An above ground 4 storey carpark would stick out like dogs testicles as well as taking up precious park land

This is likely. It’s why every stadium on Olympic Ave has its own car park.



The footprint is EXTREMELY small. Bordered by Punt Road and Brunson Road on two sides (neither will be re-aligned), and the MCG which has extremely locked in land tenure arrangements (would need an act of parliament to revoke land status of any part of it)

This is why other examples provided here are somewhat poor as they’ve bigger land footprints or could have bigger land footprints.

Thank you for your common sense post, especially coming from someone with experience with this kind of development. It pretty well confirms the opinions I had formed on the project.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Thank you for your common sense post, especially coming from someone with experience with this kind of development. It pretty well confirms the opinions I had formed on the project.

At least you're all admitting that it's about money and revenue raising rather than the obvious cultural significance.
@$$$$$$

 

[beema limapep]

At least you're all admitting that it's about money and revenue raising rather than the obvious cultural significance.
@$$$$$$

Are we?

 

[tunksy]

If you liked lounge rooms in the 70's.

We have shaggy carpets?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Are we?

Are you gonna post more explosions and have a good laugh?

 

[tigerfan1961]

At least you're all admitting that it's about money and revenue raising rather than the obvious cultural significance.
@$$$$$$

It’s about the viability of the project and whether it can be made to suit the Clubs needs. As I said, if it could be done by saving the stand AND housing the needs of the club, then sure, do it but there has to be limitations in both the dollars that can be spent and whether the footprint of the current stand is sufficient enough to allow for the staffing and other needs. I’m pretty certain it wouldn’t but I’m no expert

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

There’s no reason to stand up for a building of any kind

Looking forward to it falling down

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[PetterdHoisted]

‘Jubilation’ from community after plans to restore Flinders Pier

Flinders’ historic wooden pier is to be restored, but the state government does not seem to want Victorians to know about it.

www.theage.com.au

another nice story- 'jubilation' -these things matter to people, even a rickety old pier.

 

[RockJobster0312]

At least you're all admitting that it's about money and revenue raising rather than the obvious cultural significance.
@$$$$$$

I’d fully expect the permit to demolish and build would contain a requirement to acknowledge tone cultural significance of the former JDS as part of its approval.

I suspect the the key driver from the clubs Perspective is that it has rapidly out grown the space. With AFLW and the VFL team operating out of PRO, along with the plethora of institutes, more space is required. The added fact that multiple teams play out of the space (and spectators will watch) means it also has to update the current facilities to cater for the increase in use.

It also costs an extremely large amount to run a professional football team. Let alone three. Most clubs have multiple revenue streams that are diverse (e.g. clubs/ pokies/ acquatic centres) but that’s not nearly enough. Especially when operating out of PRO for games etc. will require a more frequent use of funds to maintain.

 

[beema limapep]

Are you gonna post more explosions and have a good laugh?

Very trump-esque of you. Answer my question.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

the last hope for the JDS might be discovery of a rare scarab beetle living in the possum poo in the rafters

 

[SunshineBoy]

the last hope for the JDS might be discovery of a rare scarab beetle living in the possum poo in the rafters

Get Peter Garrett on it

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

At least you're all admitting that it's about money and revenue raising rather than the obvious cultural significance.
@$$$$$$

FMD mate seriously , What cultural significance are you talking about ???

Over 40 years that building has been a disaster with no cultural significance and been an eye sore , Why hasnt any of these 'lovers' rattled any tins or donated their #20 to fix it up.

Building is a wreck and deserves to be demolished and the sooner it is the better

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Are we?

Yes your saying it's not cost effective to keep it or your saying it's not an important structure to keep.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

FMD mate seriously , What cultural significance are you talking about ???

Over 40 years that building has been a disaster with no cultural significance and been an eye sore , Why hasnt any of these 'lovers' rattled any tins or donated their #20 to fix it up.

Building is a wreck and deserves to be demolished and the sooner it is the better

It's almost universally accepted that it is culturally significant , all the history is there to read about including it's WW2 usage, it's architecture and 110 years of football.

 

[Infamy]

It is well known ge was asked to stay. He was a major celebrity at the time.

'A policeman by day, Dyer was so angst-ridden about whether he should enlist in World War II - and so well-connected - that he arranged a meeting with prime minister John Curtin, who told him the Diggers at the front loved hearing stories of Captain Blood and he must keep playing football.'

With love, to Capt Blood

Jack Dyer jnr thinks of his late father often, and lately it warms him all the more.

www.google.com

Linking that quote to the stand suggesting WWII historical significance is drawing a pretty long bow, that quote has nothing to do with where they watched him play.

I never seen so many supporters happy and excited to destroy a major part of their history.
The council are stooges for developers, and Peggy and Benny have been lobbying hard for over a year.
People here even bagging the National Trust.
A sad state of affairs .

Maybe, just maybe, it's historical significance isn't what you think it is

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Linking that quote to the stand suggesting WWII historical significance is drawing a pretty long bow, that quote has nothing to do with where they watched him play.


Maybe, just maybe, it's historical significance isn't what you think it is

The National Trust has called for a review of Richmond’s plan to demolish the Jack Dyer Stand at Punt Road Oval for a major redevelopment on the grounds that the stand is of cultural and historic significance to Victoria.
The National Trust also will request that the decision of the club to level the stand - part of a $60 million redevelopment of Richmond’s Punt Rd base - be reviewed by Heritage Victoria and potentially heritage-listed - a finding that would create obstacles for Richmond’s planned redevelopment.
on
The National Trust (Victoria)’s assessment of Punt Road Oval has found that the Jack Dyer Stand is of “architectural, historic and social significance to Victorians” and said that the stand could be saved, but even if the stand couldn’t be kept, the heritage body wants the Tigers to preserve “the cultural heritage” of the stand, which was opened on June 16, 1914, when the Tigers hosted South Melbourne.

Richmond say the redevelopment - for which it has pledges of $30 million from state and federal governments - is crucial to the Tigers remaining at Punt Road and involves important community work for their Indigenous, multicultural programs and women’s football.

The National Trust Victoria’s chief executive Simon Ambrose said: “We think there’s a strong case for the heritage value and historic value of the Jack Dyer stand to be taken into consideration.” He added that the stand’s removal “would be a loss to the community and to Victoria’s heritage”.
I think it needs to be determined if it has value to be heritage listed.

“I’m saying it should be considered to be saved ... It has heritage value, it also has social heritage value. It’s an important space.”

Ambrose said the trust - which outlined its concern about the redevelopment in its quarterly publication - wanted Heritage Victoria “to take this seriously”.

Heritage Victoria, should it deem the Jack Dyer Stand to be worthy of listing, would recommend this to the Heritage Council, which would complete that listing. Once listed, Richmond would need planning approval to go ahead and demolish the stand, as planned - a process that could lead to VCAT.

Ambrose said the National Trust was “not against development”, but that the body was against “not recognising” the social and cultural heritage of a structure such as the stand. He said famous stands at renowned grounds such as Lords and the SCG had been preserved.

Richmond, however, argued that the retention of the Richmond Football Club at the club’s Punt Road Oval base was of far greater historical significance than the removal of the stand.https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/"htt...VAfgWAYAXAQ&usg=AOvVaw28mhBrSgholpCgP0tuyVYX"

It needs to be removed to allow for the development of facilities that will ensure Richmond remains in Richmond long into the future,” a club spokesman said.

The redevelopment involves a reconfiguring of the oval to be the same size as the MCG, which would enable women’s football to be played there permanently and for preparation of all teams.

National Trust tackles Richmond on grandstand demolition

The National Trust has called for a review of Richmond’s plan to demolish the Jack Dyer Stand at Punt Road Oval due to its significance to Victoria.

www.google.com

 

[theyellowsash]

I’ve spent all my career working within major projects, both property and infrastructure, including upgrades to a major sporting stadium in another state that has a longer history of heritage value that PRO, where the updates allowed the AFL to play there on a consistent basis.

I am extremely confident that the costings to refurbish the JDS would be significantly greater than what is proposed.

That’s before including required updates to DDA compliance (Ramps and lifts - which in itself would need a greater footprint to include), updates to wet areas and building standards (e.g. removal of asbestos).

I would also be extremely confident in saying that the proposal for a new stand would include costings that include a revenue generating element within it. The car parking would be part of that, but increased facilities for food and beverage (likely leased out to third parties) would also be part of that.

This would be both a key plank for the club for profit generation to maintain a stand alone VFL, AFLW and VFLW teams, but also likely a requirement of the State government funding in the first place.

The opportunity for revenue generation of a refurbished JDS would still be limited (size etc).

Maybe the underground carpark is a requirement for approval. The new design seems to blend in with the park setting. An above ground 4 storey carpark would stick out like dogs testicles as well as taking up precious park land

This is likely. It’s why every stadium on Olympic Ave has its own car park.



The footprint is EXTREMELY small. Bordered by Punt Road and Brunson Road on two sides (neither will be re-aligned), and the MCG which has extremely locked in land tenure arrangements (would need an act of parliament to revoke land status of any part of it)

This is why other examples provided here are somewhat poor as they’ve bigger land footprints or could have bigger land footprints.

Heres a guy who knows what he's talking about. Every project manager thinks you can just do a major refit of a building for peanuts despite what we tell them at the start. It always ends up significantly more than just knocking it down and building new.

 

[HumanMeatball]

Where can one get this ‘rooting wood’?

Asking for a friend.

Groupies dungeon

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

It's almost universally accepted that it is culturally significant , all the history is there to read about including it's WW2 usage, it's architecture and 110 years of football.

Then why hasnt the heritage gooses kept it in pristine condition ?

Move it if it means so much to another location , Its useless to the RFC which is more important than some derelict run down stand

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Richmond, however, argued that the retention of the Richmond Football Club at the club’s Punt Road Oval base was of far greater historical significance than the removal of the stand.

THIS !!!

 

[PetterdHoisted]

The National Trust has called for a review of Richmond’s plan to demolish the Jack Dyer Stand at Punt Road Oval for a major redevelopment on the grounds that the stand is of cultural and historic significance to Victoria.
The National Trust also will request that the decision of the club to level the stand - part of a $60 million redevelopment of Richmond’s Punt Rd base - be reviewed by Heritage Victoria and potentially heritage-listed - a finding that would create obstacles for Richmond’s planned redevelopment.
on
The National Trust (Victoria)’s assessment of Punt Road Oval has found that the Jack Dyer Stand is of “architectural, historic and social significance to Victorians” and said that the stand could be saved, but even if the stand couldn’t be kept, the heritage body wants the Tigers to preserve “the cultural heritage” of the stand, which was opened on June 16, 1914, when the Tigers hosted South Melbourne.

Richmond say the redevelopment - for which it has pledges of $30 million from state and federal governments - is crucial to the Tigers remaining at Punt Road and involves important community work for their Indigenous, multicultural programs and women’s football.

The National Trust Victoria’s chief executive Simon Ambrose said: “We think there’s a strong case for the heritage value and historic value of the Jack Dyer stand to be taken into consideration.” He added that the stand’s removal “would be a loss to the community and to Victoria’s heritage”.
I think it needs to be determined if it has value to be heritage listed.

“I’m saying it should be considered to be saved ... It has heritage value, it also has social heritage value. It’s an important space.”

Ambrose said the trust - which outlined its concern about the redevelopment in its quarterly publication - wanted Heritage Victoria “to take this seriously”.

Heritage Victoria, should it deem the Jack Dyer Stand to be worthy of listing, would recommend this to the Heritage Council, which would complete that listing. Once listed, Richmond would need planning approval to go ahead and demolish the stand, as planned - a process that could lead to VCAT.

Ambrose said the National Trust was “not against development”, but that the body was against “not recognising” the social and cultural heritage of a structure such as the stand. He said famous stands at renowned grounds such as Lords and the SCG had been preserved.

Richmond, however, argued that the retention of the Richmond Football Club at the club’s Punt Road Oval base was of far greater historical significance than the removal of the stand.https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/"https://www.google.com/url?ct=abg&q=https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/request.py?contact=abg_afc&url=https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/national-trust-tackles-richmond-tigers-on-grandstand-demolition-20210420-p57kvs.html&gl=AU&hl=en&client=ca-pub-6325925746869622&ai0=BaBZM3aZzYvLYCcmLssUPyK2biASb_4SXRgAAABABIPbP-Vg4AVjR_MvCgwRgpYCAgKQBsgERd3d3LnRoZWFnZS5jb20uYXW6AQlnZnBfaW1hZ2XIAQnaAXhodHRwczovL3d3dy50aGVhZ2UuY29tLmF1L3Nwb3J0L2FmbC9uYXRpb25hbC10cnVzdC10YWNrbGVzLXJpY2htb25kLXRpZ2Vycy1vbi1ncmFuZHN0YW5kLWRlbW9saXRpb24tMjAyMTA0MjAtcDU3a3ZzLmh0bWypAm1FLasuS6g-wAIC4AIA6gI0LzIxNjcxNzgwNTA5L3RoZWFnZS9zcG9ydC9hZmwvYWZsMjAyMS9yaWNobW9uZHRpZ2Vyc_gC_NEekAOoCpgDqAqoAwHQBJBO4AQB0gUGELj-4I8WkAYBoAZQ2AYCqAfz0RuoB5bYG6gHqpuxAqgH35-xAtgHAOAHH9IICQiM44BAEAEYHdgIAoAKBZgLAYAMAdAVAfgWAYAXAQ&usg=AOvVaw28mhBrSgholpCgP0tuyVYX"

It needs to be removed to allow for the development of facilities that will ensure Richmond remains in Richmond long into the future,” a club spokesman said.

The redevelopment involves a reconfiguring of the oval to be the same size as the MCG, which would enable women’s football to be played there permanently and for preparation of all teams.

National Trust tackles Richmond on grandstand demolition

The National Trust has called for a review of Richmond’s plan to demolish the Jack Dyer Stand at Punt Road Oval due to its significance to Victoria.

www.google.com

Confirmation at the bottom there that RFC is absolutely blackmailing the Richmond community to get this stadium razed.

Shameful stuff