Jacobs & Walker Trade Discussion - Part 2

[ftmch]

The Dees are also a chance of picking him up in the PSD - they certainly need ruckmen - but again, clubs historically don't draft in players against their will, or at least when they have nominated a club of preference. This is all the more true when that club is in his home state.

I still think if he does to PSD, we're a good shot at getting him in lieu of his stated preferences. As a few people have mentioned, Im sure the AFLPA would be monitoring this also.

Bottom line though, if we don't get him, life will go on. The silver lining will definately be more opportunities for guys like SMack to show their wares.

 

[SpaceCow]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm, looks like the last time we played our shit ruckman beat yours

****, I wonder how shit Kruezer and Warnock are if they got beaten by a shit ruckman and a full forward, and Jacobs is shitter then them

If you think this is true then why do you guys want Jacobs?

Much of what's written by those with Carlton written below their name require an asterix.

*the opinions and views expressed herein are not neccessarily those of a stable sensible objective individual and should be treated as such.

Do you disagree that your rucks are as **** as our backs?

 

[Kickin_Goals]

If you think this is true then why do you guys want Jacobs?



Do you disagree that your rucks are as **** as our backs?

No because Im not so polarizable.
Your backs are not as bad as the perception of them just as our rucks aren't nor is Jacobs the second coming. You can make slight improvement there which might make a world of difference with the nature of backmen vs influencial forwards, it's not certain we will with so many lining up for the role.
Rucking is different in that it is not so telling to lose out in, only truly dominating rucks make a difference which there are so few and which you can find resoundingly that Jacobs is not at this time nor that Carlton is a bargaining position to behave as they are.

 

[Elite Crow]

Basically if they won't trade unless we give them pick 14 why would we trade? Why wouldn't we just pick him at 14 ourselves if we really wanted him that badly?

 

[srv23]

Basically if they won't trade unless we give them pick 14 why would we trade? Why wouldn't we just pick him at 14 ourselves if we really wanted him that badly?

Not a bad point - if it's 14 or nothing as far as Carlton are concerned then we refuse to trade, put him in the ND with a price on his head and take him at 14 anyway. If we're going to use 14 on him one way or the other then we may as well use itourself and make sure Carlton doesn't get pick 14.

 

[SpaceCow]

Basically if they won't trade unless we give them pick 14 why would we trade? Why wouldn't we just pick him at 14 ourselves if we really wanted him that badly?

Wait, so if you thought he was worth Pick 14 you'd prefer to **** over the club that he is leaving and force the player to go into the draft where he has the chance of being picked up by another club (however low the chances are of him being picked up before you guys are, the possibility is still there)?

Surely no club would be that unreasonable?

 

[Close to 17]

Richmond are taking Houli in the PSD. This is glaringly obvious. The only side that might take him is Melbourne, but you would have to think he's too similar to Jamar.

Not a given

Essendon may now trade given that grigg won't go in the PSD

Richmond should get grigg and Houli via trades which leaves Jacobs as an option to lead their ruck division via the PSD

 

[Elite Crow]

Wait, so if you thought he was worth Pick 14 you'd prefer to **** over the club that he is leaving and force the player to go into the draft where he has the chance of being picked up by another club (however low the chances are of him being picked up before you guys are, the possibility is still there)?

Surely no club would be that unreasonable?

If we thought Carlton were being unreasonable why not? They might pull their head from their arses next time and do a deal

 

[SpaceCow]

If we thought Carlton were being unreasonable why not? They might pull their head from their arses next time and do a deal

If we wanted Pick 14 and you thought we were being unreasonable (in that Jacobs was not worth Pick 14) but you then went out and drafted him with Pick 14 isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Surely Adelaide wouldn't do something like that out of spite. They still have to think about their reputation you know.

 

[Heyzeus]

Carlton have been doing some serious drugs this week. Jolly went for 14 and 40-something last year and he's one of the top 3 rucks in the comp, so there's no way in hell that Jacobs is worth 14. If you hold out til late Monday you will get him for your second rounder which is what he's worth.

Otherwise try WCE, they're giving their players away for picks on the 80s! Maybe you can swap Nic Nat for Griff!

 

[Elite Crow]

If we wanted Pick 14 and you thought we were being unreasonable (in that Jacobs was not worth Pick 14) but you then went out and drafted him with Pick 14 isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Surely Adelaide wouldn't do something like that out of spite. They still have to think about their reputation you know.

The crows do not want to give up pick 14, but if forced to use it because Carlton made them why would we gift our competitor with that pick? It's not spite it's called not being bent over and teaching them a lesson for next time. Pick 14 is paying over the odds and everyone knows it.

 

[SpaceCow]

The crows do not want to give up pick 14, but if forced to use it because Carlton made them why would we gift our competitor with that pick? It's not spite it's called not being bent over and teaching them a lesson for next time. Pick 14 is paying over the odds and everyone knows it.

Not the smartest thing to do in my opinion. By most of your supporters admittance Jacobs would merely be a 'handy' player, he is no 'gun' ruckman. If you're not prepared to trade Pick 14 then you should also not be prepared to use Pick 14.

If you were to do this then in one of your rare activities in trade week you would be made out to look like complete ****wads to the rest of the competition.

Is this what you're looking for?

 

[Kickin_Goals]

Not the smartest thing to do in my opinion. By most of your supporters admittance Jacobs would merely be a 'handy' player, he is no 'gun' ruckman. If you're not prepared to trade Pick 14 then you should also not be prepared to use Pick 14.

If you were to do this then in one of your rare activities in trade week you would be made out to look like complete ****wads to the rest of the competition.

Is this what you're looking for?

That is what he's saying mate it's his argument, that it would not be smart to do either of those things. He's just not making it obvious.
If you get these kinda confusions a lot it would explain a few repeated posts.

 

[Elite Crow]

Not the smartest thing to do in my opinion. By most of your supporters admittance Jacobs would merely be a 'handy' player, he is no 'gun' ruckman. If you're not prepared to trade Pick 14 then you should also not be prepared to use Pick 14.

If you were to do this then in one of your rare activities in trade week you would be made out to look like complete ****wads to the rest of the competition.

Is this what you're looking for?

Says a Carlton supporter. What if the crows went to the draft and the players they were hoping for at pick 14 were gone, they then can reassess as to whether Jacobs is worth the pick. It gives them flexibility to make an informed decision not a speculative one.

 

[barrel47]

.... Jolly went for 14 and 40-something last year and he's one of the top 3 rucks in the comp, so there's no way in hell that Jacobs is worth 14......)

Sam Jacobs
Born: 10-Apr-1988 (Debut:20y 350d Last:22y 148d)
200 cm 100 kg

Darren Jolly
Born: 06-Nov-1981 (Debut:19y 152d Last:28y 330d)
200 cm 105 kg

Jolly picked up as a 28yo.
When he was 22yo like Jacobs, he played 19 games and averaged 15 hit-outs.
Jacobs this year played 13 games and averaged 22 hit-outs.

Jolly didn't have a break-out season until he went to Sydney as a 24yo.

Ironically, Jolly was traded by Melbourne to Sydney for .... WAIT FOR IT .... Pick 15.

But sure, Carlton are asking for WWWAAAAYYY TOO MUCH in a compromised draft.

I believe my work here is done.

 

[srv23]

Not the smartest thing to do in my opinion. By most of your supporters admittance Jacobs would merely be a 'handy' player, he is no 'gun' ruckman. If you're not prepared to trade Pick 14 then you should also not be prepared to use Pick 14.

If you were to do this then in one of your rare activities in trade week you would be made out to look like complete ****wads to the rest of the competition.

Is this what you're looking for?

It was just a comment on an internet forum. There is no way the Crows would actually do that - they are far too professional. Just like some of your supporters threats to re-draft Jacobs to spite him/us if he goes into the ND are equally silly and not something your club would do either.

 

[SpaceCow]

That is what he's saying mate it's his argument, that it would not be smart to do either of those things. He's just not making it obvious.
If you get these kinda confusions a lot it would explain a few repeated posts.

Surely if you guys value your reputation it should not even be considered?

EDIT: Okay Discussion over.

Adelaide: Jacobs and Pick 18

Carlton: Pick 14 and Pick 33

This has been touted a bit and and I would not mind it.

Seems fairly equitable.

???

 

[srv23]

Sam Jacobs
Born: 10-Apr-1988 (Debut:20y 350d Last:22y 148d)
200 cm 100 kg

Darren Jolly
Born: 06-Nov-1981 (Debut:19y 152d Last:28y 330d)
200 cm 105 kg

Jolly picked up as a 28yo.
When he was 22yo like Jacobs, he played 19 games and averaged 15 hit-outs.
Jacobs this year played 13 games and averaged 22 hit-outs.

Jolly didn't have a break-out season until he went to Sydney as a 24yo.

Ironically, Jolly was traded by Melbourne to Sydney for .... WAIT FOR IT .... Pick 15.

But sure, Carlton are asking for WWWAAAAYYY TOO MUCH in a compromised draft.

I believe my work here is done.

Yep but Jolly had played 50+ games so he was FAR more proven than Jacobs after only 17. It was also a long time ago where clubs were not as savvy with trading - eg Nathan Thompson/Trent Croad

Look at the more recent example of Mumford/Warnock as more accurate reflections of Jacobs worth.

 

[srv23]

Surely if you guys value your reputation it should not even be considered?

It wouldn't be considered by our actual club. Not surprisingly the professionalism of our recruiters is far more than that of our supporters. Not sure I can say the same for your club - your recruiters seem to have equally as unrealsitic ideas about the worth of your player as your supporters.

EVERY neutral person in football thinks Jacobs for a second rounder is fair. It's not like we're offering a third rounder for Kreuzer.

 

[brazilblue]

The rest of your post is mostly blind loyalty to your team, which I respect. I do the same for the Crows. But this seems like a considered opinion, and I just don't understand it at all. The "stakes are too high"? What stakes are on the table for us? How is it that we somehow have the stakes stacked high against us, when it is your club that stands to potentially lose their player for no compensation?

I have no issue with you being proud of your history of player management, but don't automatically assume that other clubs are terrible at it.

My personal view is that he will make a great addition to your team and add something critical for next year. You may disagree with this, but I think you need a good ruck and badly.

I think the crows are run quite professionally and had a shocking year with injuries but just like we needed an inside mid to help protect Judd last year you need a good ruck to get the ball to your mids. I do not think anyone here could deny Sauce could do that or you.

Its just a question whether ur recruiters believe the same thing or not. Again if the deal does not go through time will reveal all.

I was happy to go pick 11 for Brock to fill our needs (and am still happy, think he will excel next year) maybe Adelaide are not of that way of thinking.

Fair trade would be Jacobs + 18 for 14 + 33

I want Sauce to go where he wants as I like him and want the best for him, back home in a well run club would be reward for all the hard work he has put in. But the price has to be right and fair.

Just my 2 cents, football should be the winner always.

 

[srv23]

Surely if you guys value your reputation it should not even be considered?

EDIT: Okay Discussion over.

Adelaide: Jacobs and Pick 18

Carlton: Pick 14 and Pick 33

This has been touted a bit and and I would not mind it.

Seems fairly equitable.

???

I don't think it's too bad - keeps us in the first round which is important. I'd consider it.

 

[Kickin_Goals]

Sam Jacobs
Born: 10-Apr-1988 (Debut:20y 350d Last:22y 148d)
200 cm 100 kg

Darren Jolly
Born: 06-Nov-1981 (Debut:19y 152d Last:28y 330d)
200 cm 105 kg

Jolly picked up as a 28yo.
When he was 22yo like Jacobs, he played 19 games and averaged 15 hit-outs.
Jacobs this year played 13 games and averaged 22 hit-outs.

Jolly didn't have a break-out season until he went to Sydney as a 24yo.

Ironically, Jolly was traded by Melbourne to Sydney for .... WAIT FOR IT .... Pick 15.

But sure, Carlton are asking for WWWAAAAYYY TOO MUCH in a compromised draft.

I believe my work here is done.

By all means Trade us 24 year old versatile proven darren Jolly, oh wait? your trading Jacobs a homeward bound out of contract unproven player? pass....
You think by this page of the thread that terrible argument hasn't been put forward.

Surely if you guys value your reputation it should not even be considered?

EDIT: Okay Discussion over.

Adelaide: Jacobs and Pick 18

Carlton: Pick 14 and Pick 33

This has been touted a bit and and I would not mind it.

Seems fairly equitable.

???

Adelaides reputation isn't in question they have offered the all non-biased peoples value for Jacobs, your ignorance doesn't change it.

It's more then well known why you want this trade, after pick 16 failure rate increases significantly over all drafts.

So you basicaly expect the club to put themself out in favor of making you flogs happy.

Just walk away....adelaide has made an offer that is fair and considered so by any sensible person.
I due to such inane idiotic response would talk to jacobs tell him carlton are a joke we are going to work something out to get you where you want through other means and make no further serious negotiation with a bunch of flogs just leave a weak deal on the table.

 

[brazilblue]

So why didn't CFC make him such an offer in the first place? If he is so valuable, why not pay the kid what he is worth rather than risk losing him?

I do not think its that simple, CFC realises that at the moment he is surplus to our needs and given the right trade could be a win for him, the club of his choice and us.

CFC has a proud history of not screwing its players over, in the end Sauce has done everything expected of him .. so why wouldn't CFC do the right thing as long as the crows come to the party as well? Having seen first hand how it works Sauce will not piss on the Blues and I am sure in his mind he knows whats fair if AFC was to reject him +18 for 14 + 33 he would stay as he would know we tried our best but you did not rate him enough.

At our club jerks like Grigg are as rare as albino gorrillas (or Mathey Knights whatever u prefer)

I really do hope a deal goes through cause the kid deserves it and you will be happy guaranteed. But if life was meant to be fair the Pies would not have won this year ... lets hope the sun shines on Sauce, CFC and AFC in this trade.

 

[blues4flag]

Yep but Jolly had played 50+ games so he was FAR more proven than Jacobs after only 17. It was also a long time ago where clubs were not as savvy with trading - eg Nathan Thompson/Trent Croad

Look at the more recent example of Mumford/Warnock as more accurate reflections of Jacobs worth.

Games played DOES NOT equal proven! Look at Jolly's statistics in the season before he was traded. Despite being younger, Jacobs is averaging more than four times as many possessions, more than three times as many hitouts, infinitely more goals.

Yet Jolly was the more proven player because he'd played more games.

 

[brazilblue]

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, are you seriously trying to argue that Jacobs is worth more than 14

There are no high stakes, we nabbed Tambling who was our preferred trade, not jacobs. There are no high stakes for us, it's not like we have no ruckmen on our list. Obviously Jacobs would help next year, but hell we finished 13th this year it's not like we are trading to try and win a premiership or anything.

I am not sure where this perception has come from that it is life and death for us with the Jacobs trade, if we dont get him then we dont and Maric will continue to be our number 1 ruckman next year as he did this year, there is also no guarantee that Jacobs will be any better Maric either.

As others have said a couple of years ago we were hyping Griffin to be the next Shaun Rehn, essentially we really have no idea after so few games how good a player will actually be, no club would be stupid enough to trade a first round pick for third string ruckman who has only played 17 games who was recruited via the rookie draft.

No on reflection I think Sauce + 18 for 14 and 33 is fair. Sauce has runs on the board and smashed it in a final. Best under 23 y.o for hit outs to advantage so yeah if I was CFC thats the final offer take it or leave it.

My opinion is take it and run as fast as you can, I rate him that highly.

But opinions are like @r$eholes ... everyones got one.

P.S you had a pretty bad year with injuries, a few have retired, left but I think you can make the finals next year ... Sauce may be the difference again my opinion.