Oppo Camp Jaidyn Stephenson (Traded to Nth Melb. 2020)

[frizzle]

Scottie: as always with you mate, this is from the heart and says a lot about YOUR character and your ability to judge our boy's character. We all can see (as I'm sure with hindsight now so can Jaidyn) that what he did was dumb. But if there's an actual saint amongst us here that's NEVER made a mistake....well then let he or she fire the first stone!

Scottie for what its worth mate, the next time you see Jaidyn, can you just put your arm around him and tell him that we all trust him and love him like we always have and always will. He's owned up and he'll take his lumps and he'll come back a wiser man. Having been in your position (of having a close relationship to an AFL "star") I know just how human they are and how hurt they feel when they think they've let "Us" (their supporter base) down. For them letting US down is almost worse than facing their immediate families. And social media just amplifies this feeling and we forget sometimes just HOW YOUNG and VULNERABLE these young blokes are. We see them doing amazing, almost superhuman things on the footy field and we just assume that they're unbelievably confident and rational off the field as well.

Jaidyn: If you're listening son, what you did was just a once off. Don't go smashing yourself over this. Sure, in your time off reflect on HOW you can resist BS like gambling and social media but just use the time to get stronger. You've always been a resilient type, now you have to take that next level. Help other where you can and make this time off into a positive so that when you do RETURN to us, you'll be unstoppable again.
Good on you lad, chin up. Side by side.

Don't worry mate. I'm sure our club has his back. Listening to Tay Adams interview on the radio & I'm sure of it.

 

[Greening Magic]

So being in the leadership group means throwing a team mate under the bus instead of quietly helping him change his behaviour.
Let's just agree to disagree on what real leadership is.

 

[sr36]

He wouldn't be human at his age if he didn't take risks and do stupid things. I'm surprised these betting offenses don't occur more regularly. He'll be OK. From a long term perspective this might drive him to be the best he can possibly be. This story will be next Monday's fish and chip wrappings. Move on.

I agree with all of that, I'm just suggesting that with the blokes who really dazzle us, there is a fearlessness, an innate hard wiring that makes them more inclined to take risks.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

So being in the leadership group means throwing a team mate under the bus instead of quietly helping him change his behaviour.
Let's just agree to disagree on what real leadership is.

Yes let's disagree because I suspect you don't understand it

If you have had children, have you ever punished them for doing something wrong and thereby getting them to understand what is right, or did you just ignore it because addressinig it might have been seen as "throwing the child under the bus"

 

[Scottie65]

Scottie: as always with you mate, this is from the heart and says a lot about YOUR character and your ability to judge our boy's character. We all can see (as I'm sure with hindsight now so can Jaidyn) that what he did was dumb. But if there's an actual saint amongst us here that's NEVER made a mistake....well then let he or she fire the first stone!

Scottie for what its worth mate, the next time you see Jaidyn, can you just put your arm around him and tell him that we all trust him and love him like we always have and always will. He's owned up and he'll take his lumps and he'll come back a wiser man. Having been in your position (of having a close relationship to an AFL "star") I know just how human they are and how hurt they feel when they think they've let "Us" (their supporter base) down. For them letting US down is almost worse than facing their immediate families. And social media just amplifies this feeling and we forget sometimes just HOW YOUNG and VULNERABLE these young blokes are. We see them doing amazing, almost superhuman things on the footy field and we just assume that they're unbelievably confident and rational off the field as well.

Jaidyn: If you're listening son, what you did was just a once off. Don't go smashing yourself over this. Sure, in your time off reflect on HOW you can resist BS like gambling and social media but just use the time to get stronger. You've always been a resilient type, now you have to take that next level. Help other where you can and make this time off into a positive so that when you do RETURN to us, you'll be unstoppable again.
Good on you lad, chin up. Side by side.

hi mate...i just love what you wrote moved me and you couldnt be any closer to the truth....i will show him what you have written and im sure he will very much appreciate your message and whats behind it.....yes silly thing he did but not unforgivable

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Bucks on SEN at 9:00am

 

[hellfire]

Dumb mistakes, but he is human. Do your time, Stevo, learn from it, and come back for sweet redemption by tearing the finals series to shreds.

 

[Greening Magic]

Yes let's disagree because I suspect you don't understand it

If you have had children, have you ever punished them for doing something wrong and thereby getting them to understand what is right, or did you just ignore it because addressinig it might have been seen as "throwing the child under the bus"

You have completely missed my point.
First assess the crime.
Did anything Stevo did hurt or negatively impact on others. No.
As a parent (read Howe) I would have ensured the kids (Stevo) knew exactly what they had done wrong. Explained all the possible consequences to themselves and others, and if I felt confident that going forward they would be better for learning the lesson and wouldn't transgress again, then I wouldn't exacerbate the situation by ensuring of a penalty far greater than the crime.
That called assessing, caring and above all leadership.
I say Howe abdicated his responsibility to his friend and whats worse is that he'll be praised for it.

 

[wicksy]

You have completely missed my point.
First assess the crime.
Did anything Stevo did hurt or negatively impact on others. No.
As a parent (read Howe) I would have ensured the kids (Stevo) knew exactly what they had done wrong. Explained all the possible consequences to themselves and others, and if I felt confident that going forward they would be better for learning the lesson and wouldn't transgress again, then I wouldn't exacerbate the situation by ensuring of a penalty far greater than the crime.
That called assessing, caring and above all leadership.
I say Howe abdicated his responsibility to his friend and whats worse is that he'll be praised for it.

Yeah, you're wrong.
Howe showed perfect leadership by telling Jaidyn to speak to Walsh.
Had this been left and found out later, it would have gone a whole lot worse.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

You have completely missed my point.

I say Howe abdicated his responsibility to his friend and whats worse is that he'll be praised for it.

Then you need to listen to Bucks and what he just said about Howe, although I suspect you may not understand it

 

[sideswipe]

Yeah, you're wrong.
Howe showed perfect leadership by telling Jaidyn to speak to Walsh.
Had this been left and found out later, it would have gone a whole lot worse.

Yep - leaving aside the "moral" question of what is the right thing to do, maybe Greening Magic should take a look at the AFL National Gambling Policy when assessing Howe's behaviour.

Once Howe received knowledge of Stevo's punting, if he took no action, he could likely be seen to also have breached the Co-operation section of the guidelines, specifically,

"A Person must not...be a party to another committing any breach of this Policy"

 

[Saintly Viewed]

So being in the leadership group means throwing a team mate under the bus instead of quietly helping him change his behaviour.
Let's just agree to disagree on what real leadership is.

Yes we can agree to disagree on leadership models.

I’d say at the end, the leadership at Collingwood would be what the coaches and club wants.

Listening to Nathan this morning I’d suggest he sees leadership as being the actions taken by the leadership group.

Though I do find reading the different views of leadership by posters thought provoking.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Bucks on SEN at 9:00am

So far as usual, Nathan been outstanding.
He does that so well.
Measured individual.

 

[Get Gaffed]

We need not jump the gun as we are not privy to the info at hand. Could be that Howe told Stevo the situation at hand and it's best to be upfront, look at me and degoey trying to hide it, we then came clean and it all worked out well, don't want to see you face something bigger and spend longer out like Murray, pays to do the righty. Then with this info Stevo then makes the choice to speak with Walsh, wanting Howe to come be support/mediator and then all as a collective make the choice to speak with Gil so it doesn't cause further damage and just nip it in the bud. It's not like Howe rang all the tabloids and dragged out Stevo by the ear like a headmaster to the office. Maybe they came to the conclusion that they would probably end up finding out so go the suspension now instead of risking being rubbed out before finals. The club would of went through possible scenarios and would of been advised of possible sanctions. Either way be happy that with decisions like this we will never have no Dank Dramas at our club like Essendon.

 

[Collingwoodity]

If they pretended that they didn't do this, I'd agree, but I just view it as the sensible thing to do.

In order to ensure a guilty plea and thus a conviction, prosecutors have been known to negotiate with criminals over what they are charged with and thus what their maximum penalty can be.

Prosecutors negotiate charges. Once charges are determined a court never negotiates a sentence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MarkT2]

They will be pissed off that one of the best players in the team will miss the rest of the home and away season, not because of injury, but because of his own thundering stupidity.

No doubt.

 

[Collingwoodity]

What garbage. Courts don’t negotiate but prosecutors do. Plea bargains.

The reason there are negotiations here is to come to an acceptable penalty (to all parties) and avoid the need for a tribunal hearing potentially followed by an Appeals Board hearing and then onto the courts. Entirely normal behaviour in any civil or indeed criminal (at least related to which charges to plead guilty) matter.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Actually what you posted is garbage and shows you have very little understanding of the law.

Charges are laid by a prosecuting authority after investigation.

Then, before a court determines liability and sentence, the prosecutor will normally negotiate charges with the accused.

After the charges (whether negotiated or not) are finalised, they are presented to the Court for determination of liability and sentence.

If the accused agrees to plead guilty this may impact on the charges laid (in severity or number) but will and usually must be taken into account when determining a sentence.

However, at no stage does the accused ever get to negotiate with the Court on sentence.

I am an accredited specialist lawyer who has acted for and against authorities and those accused by authorities including AHPRA, local councils, SRO, ATO, Worksafe and the police / DPP / AFP.

I know what I am talking about. I suggest you do some research before attempting to correct someone next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TradeDraft]

Foxfooty highlighted the torpedo in the Saints game.........was it done to reach the betting goal tally?

It’s a Pandora’s box that plenty of people are not grasping IMO.

I think he got off lightly today.

What would you given him CFC2010?

 

[sideswipe]

Actually what you posted is garbage and shows you have very little understanding of the law.

Charges are laid by a prosecuting authority after investigation.

Then, before a court determines liability and sentence, the prosecutor will normally negotiate charges with the accused.

After the charges (whether negotiated or not) are finalised, they are presented to the Court for determination of liability and sentence.

If the accused agrees to plead guilty this may impact on the charges laid (in severity or number) but will and usually must be taken into account when determining a sentence.

However, at no stage does the accused ever get to negotiate with the Court on sentence.

I am an accredited specialist lawyer who has acted for and against authorities and those accused by authorities including AHPRA, local councils, SRO, ATO, Worksafe and the police / DPP / AFP.

I know what I am talking about. I suggest you do some research before attempting to correct someone next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You might know what you are talking about, but you didn't read my post very well. Try it again and you will see I clearly stated the prosecutor negotiates on charges. We agree on this point.

Hilarious you have to spout your qualifications. But you might not be the only lawyer on BigFooty.

 

[Countrypie]

I agree with all of that, I'm just suggesting that with the blokes who really dazzle us, there is a fearlessness, an innate hard wiring that makes them more inclined to take risks.

I think we're in furious agreement

 

[Collingwoodity]

You might know what you are talking about, but you didn't read my post very well. Try it again and you will see I clearly stated the prosecutor negotiates on charges. We agree on this point.

Hilarious you have to spout your qualifications. But you might not be the only lawyer on BigFooty.

Sigh.

I don’t think you READ my original post which clearly stated that the AFL should not be negotiating as the “court”. The comment that prosecutors negotiate charges is moot and irrelevant.

Another anger-fuelled know-it-all post from you with overreactionary language with some passive-aggressive language about my qualifications.

I’m trying to short-circuit a long winded dispute where reactionary terms like garbage are used.

But again, you can’t help yourself but double down.

I feel like you have done this before so I will ignore any future imperial entanglements.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sr36]

I think we're in furious agreement

It's become the Australian way.

 

[TW Sherrin]

It doesn’t exonerate him. Not at all.

But jmac70 raises an interesting side line.
Is he the lone wol?

I’d suspect they’d be a few here and there with mates. Not lots but here and there over the past few seasons.
But they’d all be reminded now, it’s not on. In any shape or form.

Hard lesson, lesson learned.

Its delusional to think players dont bet but it doesn't make it right. I've seen racing stewards in Tabs punting and you'd think they would know better.

Its life. People f.ck up. Drink driving is illegal yet it happens every day.

Imo the penalty is obsessive.

 

[CFC2010]

What would you given him CFC2010?

Dave I would have made him sign a 10 year contract on rookie wages

In all seriousness he is lucky he has a chance to play finals this year...…..lets hope we can still finish top four.

 

[jackcass]

Sure. But the integrity of the AFL is in question here: the fact that the AFL is willing to negotiate a penalty for an allegedly “disreputable” offence shows that the offence is not disreputable to the AFL.

A court does not negotiate with a murderer over a sentence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seriously long bow drawing those conclusions.