Traded James Aish [traded to Collingwood for #26 and St Kilda's 2016 second round pick]

[Roylion]

keep on convincing and rationalising to yourself

I will. I see no reason to suppose my views are incorrect or need re-thinking. You put your rational and reasoned alternative view about Brisbane's trading and draft strategy and I'll address your comments then.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Not a good result for Leigh.

They can spin the Bastinac pickup any way they want....but Leigh doesn't come out looking good. The trade is nothing flash for Brisbane and they still folded.

Tough situation ....but tough words....from a genuinely tough guy....ended up being empty.

And didn't you fall for it, hook, line and sinker.

 

[Roylion]

I'm most critical of the players you've recruited this year, other than Jansen I've seen enough of the others to form a view that they're not the sort of players who are going to help you win against the top sides.

There will be slow progress up the ladder over the next few years. Get back to us in three years when Bell is 27, Bastinac is 27, Beams about 28-29 and some of our younger players currently aged about 19-21 now, are reaching their prime in their mid twenties. Then we'll be starting to win against the top sides, with both Bastinac and Bell still in the senior side. Barring injury, both will play over 100 games for the Lions.

 

[Schraderbrau]

I think Aish is a gun. Unfortunately he has virtually stagnated up in Brisbane for various reasons. Now watch him grow as Collingwood's development team gets hold of him. Crisp had a pre-season at Collingwood and transformed into a good footballer. Aish will be that and more. Go Pies!

I seen Aish play against grown men in a good standard when at Norwood at 16 years of age and have no doubt what's so ever that he will be a far better player than a lot of a here are spouting....

As you well know he comes from top shelf blood bloodlines, that very few family's are blessed with, ala Rioli's and quite frankly its nothing more than sour sour grapes.
This one will sting for many years

Aish is solid but he gets overrated. Everyone brings up the fact he was playing SANFL at the age of 16 but the real question is how much he has improved since and the answer is not that much, especially when compared with others in his cohort. Footpace and body strenght are both issues. I doubt he develops into a genuine inside mid and his footpace + greater accountability at AFL level means he will never have the space and time on the outside that he got away with at lower levels. He'll be handy providing there are good players around him that take the heat. If he ever ends up one of the top 10 players on our list then he will have improved a ton or we are in trouble.

Personally I think Jack Crisp will end up having the better career. Some players are early developers and some develop late. Crisp does most things that Aish does and is a much more powerful athlete.

 

[Mkcaptain]

When Swann says things like "We understand his position, but the club has no intention of trading James." And, he "either plays for Carlton or he plays for us". That is a pretty blunt and straightforward message to Lions supporters that Aish won't be traded, it doesn't even leave room for the interpretation that the club would trade him for the right deal. It certainly implies that the trade was a backflip rather than part of the plan.

Anyway, most of us knew, except for a few Brisbane and Carlton supporters, that it was just posturing from the start. And I'm pleased a fair trade was reached in the end.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

In all seriousness, thanks to the Lions posters in this thread. Could've been an absolute shitfight, but in the most part has been a decent effort. Enjoyed the engagement with guys like Roylion, blueiris, etc etc.

Special thanks to dlanod who I think did an awesome job keeping this more or less on track.

Teasing and one-upmanship aside, let's hope it turns out to be a win/win trade.

 

[hench]

Will he be in the team Round 1?

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Will he be in the team Round 1?

I'd think so.

I'd think all three of our recruits will be, barring any injuries (knock on wood).

 

[dlanod]

No I'm about done I think

Oh thank christ.

And didn't you fall for it, hook, line and sinker.

If only plenty of other people had pointed out the reality of the situation...

 

[Roylion]

I'd think so.

I'd think all three of our recruits will be, barring any injuries (knock on wood).

Likewise.

Bastinac, Bell and Walker. Jansen will have to work his way into the side.

 

[Kappa]

Likewise.

Bastinac, Bell and Walker. Jansen will have to work his way into the side.

All those guys are fringe players at best though

 

[Checkered]

Yeah g'day so I've been following this thread since the start and finally thought I'd have a say on it all....

- The Backflip - not sure what Pies fans are getting so excited about. It was always posturing aimed at sending the message that if an appropriate offer wasn't tabled, Aish would take his chances the draft. An appropriate offer was ponied up and we took it - knowing full well that it would be silly not to. The wording itself was probably stronger than it needed to be and in the process made Leigh look a touch silly (as well as user: Terry Wallet) but hey, we got pretty close to what we wanted. Not to mention every Brisbane fan's favourite rebuttal that more or less the exact same thing happened with Hine last year. His wording wasn't quite as absolute as Leigh's and if that little discrepancy helps you justify in your head that the scenarios are worlds apart then great, but know that the principle was and is exactly the same.

- "Culture" - all thread long Brisbane has been lambasted for having a shit culture that everyone wants out of. Now that we're bringing in some solid role players (at the very least) that actually want to be here and are buying in to it, we're wasting time with players who "wouldn't get a game in a finals side". Fair go lads. We've overhauled the off field part of the club culture with a heavy (and necessary) focus on player retention. On field, we've rid ourselves of 3 players who didn't want to be here and replaced them with 4 who do. Sure none of them are A graders, but with our stage of development and our geographical location, how many A graders that we could realistically secure would really want to be here? We've done the best we can with what was available and in doing so are making in roads to repairing this horrifically damaged culture that people seem to relish pointing out so much.

- Aish - bad decision to draft him. With the gift of hindsight, bad decision not to get him out the door for Beams - can't really be blamed for backing ourselves in rather than trying to push a first year player out the door but **** it would have been nice and saved a whole heap of hassle. I, and I believe many other Brisbane fans, really weren't that devastated to see him go knowing full well for the last 6 months that it was about 80-20 that he would. As someone has already sad, Aish will be a 200 gamer no doubt (barring injuries of course) and will be a B to B+ player that any team would love to have. Is it going to sting him going on to do exactly what we all know he's capable of? Nah, not really. It's a shame but you win some you lose some.

- Beams - shut the **** up it was a win/win and everyone's happy. Both parties need to grow up and stop trying to taunt each other when we're both happy with what we got. Also if you're still comparing Beams' departure with Aish's then pull your damn head in. There were similarities sure but Christ the differences are stark.

- Bell - I loved watching him this year. Not the most skilled as people like to point out but I'm confident we have enough quality ball users that a stray kick or two from him can be covered. Not to mention the physicality and attitude he brings to the team. I was completely against Robbo coming in last year but anyone who watched him this year and said they wouldn't love to have another guy like that in their team is kidding themselves. I see Bell as a slightly more talented version of Robbo and I'm excited to have him.

- Bastinac - Hard to judge a guy who's been played out of position as the North fans tell me. I know the potential is there and even if he never unlocks that, he will remain a solid role player and having a 100 games of experience is actually quite valuable on our list hey. In the end we didn't actually give up that much for him (17 more or less equalled 38 and 40) and it was only a late 20's pick in a weak draft which we didn't want anyway wasn't it? Would be nice if blueiris stopped running around embarrassing himself before giving the bloke a chance.

- Walker and Jansen - Jansen could be anything. More or less got him for free so can't be mad at taking the punt on someone with his physical attributes. Even if he only is a fringe/NEAFL player, he will put more pressure on those in the side to keep their spot than some of the bloked that have been fulfilling that role the last few years. Same thing goes for Bastinac and the people who insist that he isn't that good.
Walker will definitely serve a valuable purpose too. From what I've seen he leads well which is something some of our young keys don't do so much so it will be nice to have. I reckon 30-35 on the best defender is about what we'll get from him which I would consider a win. Also valuable being that he gives the young fellas a bit more time to lift some weights and get their heads around it all before they eventually come through and send him back to the NEAFL in 2 or 3 years time. At the price we paid I'm definitely happy about it.

- Draft Picks - We've also further set ourselves up to ensure we get an additional 3 highly rated Queenslanders and a very highly rated one next year. Some first round talent on our list would be brilliant.



tl;dr: my attempt at a rational analysis of this thread.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Likewise.

Bastinac, Bell and Walker. Jansen will have to work his way into the side.

Yeah, and Hipwood and Keays will probably get a go sooner rather than later.

 

[Roylion]

All those guys are fringe players at best though

Bell wasn't a fringe player for Carlton and from 2012-2014, Bastinac wasn't a fringe player for North. Played 17 games in 2015. They'll be best 22 for Brisbane in 2016. Let's see what Walker can do with a regular game as a key forward for the Lions in 2016.

 

[PicaBoo]

Judging by our recent ability to develop talented midfielders into superstars, this deal is going to look VERY embarrassing for Brisbane in a few years.

When you have people like Leppitch and Matthews publicly lying though it's no wonder kids want out, something very rotten.

They weren't lying. Just very very short sighted. Whole footy world knew they were going to backflip and embarrass their supporters base. Suddenly when reality sank in, they saw that their position was untenable. Hopefully they get some young talent in that wants to stay. Academy players should suit them. What is the record for most winners of a B&F btw?

 

[nahnah]

Bell wasn't a fringe player for Carlton and from 2012-2014, Bastinac wasn't a fringe player for North. Played 17 games in 2015. They'll be best 22 for Brisbane in 2016. Let's see what Walker can do with a regular game as a key forward for the Lions in 2016.

Carlton finished last tho, Bell will be best 22 for as long as your a cellar dweller but if you ever move up the ladder he will be depth. Basti I agree can be good when given full time role as an inside mid. Walker is a spud, you can laugh at Jessie white for being a dud but he is superior to this clown and it isn't close which is probably the sad part.

 

[Roylion]

They weren't lying. Just very very short sighted. Whole footy world knew they were going to backflip and embarrass their supporters base.

Embarrassed? Why should there be any reason to be embarrassed? The Aish trade was a win / win for all involved clubs.

Suddenly when reality sank in, they saw that their position was untenable. Hopefully they get some young talent in that wants to stay. Academy players should suit them.

Yeah. Hopefully the Lions can reduce the proportion of their interstate recruit component from 80% to something more akin to the average proportion of the Victorian clubs which is about 40-50%.

What is the record for most winners of a B&F btw

Four I think. Brownlow is three.

 

[Raveneyes]

Good result for the teams involved, and an enjoyable thread.

Good luck next year, Lions!

 

[Roylion]

Carlton finished last tho, Bell will be best 22 for as long as your a cellar dweller but if you ever move up the ladder he will be depth.

Perfect in that case.

Basti I agree can be good when given full time role as an inside mid.

Nice to know that you've given Bastinac your seal of approval. I was a bit worried he wouldn't get it and his career at the Lions isn't over before it started.

Walker is a spud, you can laugh at Jessie white for being a dud but he is superior to this clown and it isn't close which is probably the sad part.

Jesse White will be 28 by the start of the 2016 season and has played an average of 13 games per season. Walker will be 22. Played 16 games in 2015.

 

[Vankri]

"The concept of trading is everyone wins." Leigh Matthews - October 8th 2015.

I think the Lions are happy for North and/or Collingwood to take a "win" out of any Aish trade, as long as they do as well.

And that's what happened.

Bastinac's acquisition as a replacement for Aish, plus picks to help secure Keay/Hipwood, as well as Top 5 draft prospect Jacob Alloson next year is considered a "win".

Matthews made it very clear they would not trade Aish for draft picks used to select 18 years olds that set the club back, yet another two years.

A few of us have been saying that for some time now.

Except you conveniently forget the rest of the original quote from Matthews which was explaining that you "can't win when trading out young players", and again I'm quoting, "therefore don't trade them".

It's simple. Matthews went early, didn't leave anything open ("Aish won't be traded, I can guarantee that'), didn't follow up on his threat/guarantee, the football department has to clumsily align to it for a while before softening the stance a few days in the trade period, and overall your club showed a lack of alignment and strategy with their stance / ultimatum / lobbying / empty threats / negotiation tactic / whatever Brisbane fans wanted us to believe this whole thing was which changed 5 times in the past month.

Now even Matthews himself acknowledged "a backflip", but despite all evidence of the contrary you choose to believe there was no backflip and it was all strategically calculated. I hope, if nothing else for the sake of your rational mind, that deep down you see the situation for what it was.

 

[Kappa]

Embarrassed? Why should there be any reason to be embarrassed? The Aish trade was a win / win for all involved clubs.



Yeah. Hopefully the Lions can reduce the proportion of their interstate recruit component from 80% to something more akin to the average proportion of the Victorian clubs which is about 40-50%.



Four I think. Brownlow is three.

For the good of the game I think that would be a great outcome if more kids are drafted coming out of NSW and QLD, but regardless of where kids come from they will still leave if the club isn't up to standard.

 

[blueiris]

In all seriousness, thanks to the Lions posters in this thread. Could've been an absolute shitfight, but in the most part has been a decent effort. Enjoyed the engagement with guys like Roylion, blueiris, etc etc.

Special thanks to dlanod who I think did an awesome job keeping this more or less on track.

Teasing and one-upmanship aside, let's hope it turns out to be a win/win trade.

Thanks mate really enjoyed our conversations

 

[Roylion]

Except you conveniently forget the rest of the original quote from Matthews which was explaining that you "can't win when trading out young players", and again I'm quoting, "therefore don't trade them".

Matthews said the club can't win if it trades out young players for draft picks. Therefore the Lions won't trade to do that.

And they didn't do that.

It's simple. Matthews went early, didn't leave anything open ("Aish won't be traded, I can guarantee that'), didn't follow up on his threat/guarantee, the football department has to clumsily align to it for a while before softening the stance a few days in the trade period, and overall your club showed a lack of alignment and strategy with their stance / ultimatum / lobbying / empty threats / negotiation tactic / whatever Brisbane fans wanted us to believe this whole thing was which changed 5 times in the past month.

But so what. Is this some sort of triumph for your club?

INow even Matthews himself acknowledged "a backflip", but despite all evidence of the contrary you choose to Ibelieve there was no backflip and it was all strategically calculated. I hope, if nothing else for the sake of your rational mind, that deep down you see the situation for what it was.

Why are you even worried about it? Aish was traded and all three clubs are satisfied with what they got. Matthews made his point that trades need to be win / win or the Lions would not be trading. And a few of us said that from the start. The trade proposal was a win / win and so the Lions traded. An established midfielder Bastinac being made part of the deal made a significant difference, as Matthews, Swann and Schwab all said today.

 

[Apples]

Which ever way Brisbane Lions' supporters try to rationalise it, this was an embarrassing flip-flop and one that was entirely avoidable. Instead of sticking to its guns and 'drawing a line in the sand', it completely buckled. Rather than sending a strong message to the rest of the competition, which I presume was the idea, they look weak and disorganised.

When Swann and Matthews make unequivocal statements and then go to water, they do the club no favours. I'm glad they buckled, but sooner or later they will need to hold firm. Tonight, no matter how they try to dress it up, it's a backdown and next year and the year after, the strong statements will have no impact at all.

Brisbane blinked. Of course, there's the elephant in the room that nobody seems to be talking about. How long can he last?

 

[Roylion]

Which ever way Brisbane Lions' supporters try to rationalise it, this was an embarrassing flip-flop and one that was entirely avoidable. Instead of sticking to its guns and 'drawing a line in the sand', it completely buckled.

Embarrassed? Why should there be any reason to be embarrassed? The Aish trade was a win / win for all involved clubs. Brisbane got what it wanted and the playing list in 2016 and beyond is stronger for it.