Traded James Aish [traded to Collingwood for #26 and St Kilda's 2016 second round pick]

[Harris Specter]

Which ever way Brisbane Lions' supporters try to rationalise it, this was an embarrassing flip-flop and one that was entirely avoidable. Instead of sticking to its guns and 'drawing a line in the sand', it completely buckled. Rather than sending a strong message to the rest of the competition, which I presume was the idea, they look weak and disorganised.

When Swann and Matthews make unequivocal statements and then go to water, they do the club no favours. I'm glad they buckled, but sooner or later they will need to hold firm. Tonight, no matter how they try to dress it up, it's a backdown and next year and the year after, the strong statements will have no impact at all.

Brisbane blinked. Of course, there's the elephant in the room that nobody seems to be talking about. How long can he last?

Strong join date to post ratio. Clearly someone needs to use an alias.

 

[Vankri]

Matthews said the club can't win if it trades out young players for draft picks. Therefore the Lions won't trade to do that.

And they didn't do that.



But so what. Is this some sort of triumph for your club?



Why are you even worried about it? Aish was traded and all three clubs are satisfied with what they got. Matthews made his point that trades need to be win / win or the Lions would not be trading. And a few of us said that from the start. The trade proposal was a win / win and so the Lions traded. An established midfielder Bastinac being made part of the deal made a significant difference, as Matthews, Swann and Schwab all said today.

It's not about my club.

I just feel like correcting illogical or biased thinking when I read it.

If you think there was no backflip and everyone else including Matthews thinks there was, and you really desperately want to see a consistent strategic vision behind it then let's leave it at that.

 

[PicaBoo]

Embarrassed? Why should there be any reason to be embarrassed? The Aish trade was a win / win for all involved clubs.



Yeah. Hopefully the Lions can reduce the proportion of their interstate recruit component from 80% to something more akin to the average proportion of the Victorian clubs which is about 40-50%.



Four I think. Brownlow is three.

Win/win would have happened regardless. It is the road to it. Listen to Matthews puffing his chest and then Hine composed tone. You wouldn't think they were talking about the same player being traded.
And sorry to say but the premature and partially immature 'Aish will be going to the draft' taunts by some Lions supporters has backfired. Not that some Pies were any better . Last year we were the laughing stock with our ultimatum , your line in the sand is a worthy successor .

 

[Hollow Knight]

A poll of Josh Walker vs Jesse White would be interesting.

Quietly confident.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

A poll of Josh Walker vs Jesse White would be interesting.

Quietly confident.

A bloke who couldn't hold his spot in our side vs a bloke who will be your best forward... Setting the bar high already.

Given how desolate Brisbanes forward line is he'll probably win the Coleman

 

[Ketchup]

Jesse white will still kick more goals. Atleast the ball will go into our fifty.

 

[KissStephanie]

Jesse White will be 28 by the start of the 2016 season and has played an average of 13 games per season. Walker will be 22. Played 16 games in 2015.

Jesse White played 18 matches this year, and kicked a career high 27 goals, with a SuperCoach average of 68. He was a scapegoat, and stiff to be dropped for four matches, but kicked a further 9 goals in VFL. His last two seasons were his career best, and has been serviceable.

Josh Walker played 16 matches this year, and kicked 19 goals, with a SuperCoach average of only 53. He will only be 23 years old when next season begins though, but he still has a fair way to go to reach the "heights" of Jesse White.

 

[BPikkers]

Yeah g'day so I've been following this thread since the start and finally thought I'd have a say on it all....

- The Backflip - not sure what Pies fans are getting so excited about. It was always posturing aimed at sending the message that if an appropriate offer wasn't tabled, Aish would take his chances the draft. An appropriate offer was ponied up and we took it - knowing full well that it would be silly not to. The wording itself was probably stronger than it needed to be and in the process made Leigh look a touch silly (as well as user: Terry Wallet) but hey, we got pretty close to what we wanted. Not to mention every Brisbane fan's favourite rebuttal that more or less the exact same thing happened with Hine last year. His wording wasn't quite as absolute as Leigh's and if that little discrepancy helps you justify in your head that the scenarios are worlds apart then great, but know that the principle was and is exactly the same.

- "Culture" - all thread long Brisbane has been lambasted for having a shit culture that everyone wants out of. Now that we're bringing in some solid role players (at the very least) that actually want to be here and are buying in to it, we're wasting time with players who "wouldn't get a game in a finals side". Fair go lads. We've overhauled the off field part of the club culture with a heavy (and necessary) focus on player retention. On field, we've rid ourselves of 3 players who didn't want to be here and replaced them with 4 who do. Sure none of them are A graders, but with our stage of development and our geographical location, how many A graders that we could realistically secure would really want to be here? We've done the best we can with what was available and in doing so are making in roads to repairing this horrifically damaged culture that people seem to relish pointing out so much.

- Aish - bad decision to draft him. With the gift of hindsight, bad decision not to get him out the door for Beams - can't really be blamed for backing ourselves in rather than trying to push a first year player out the door but **** it would have been nice and saved a whole heap of hassle. I, and I believe many other Brisbane fans, really weren't that devastated to see him go knowing full well for the last 6 months that it was about 80-20 that he would. As someone has already sad, Aish will be a 200 gamer no doubt (barring injuries of course) and will be a B to B+ player that any team would love to have. Is it going to sting him going on to do exactly what we all know he's capable of? Nah, not really. It's a shame but you win some you lose some.

- Beams - shut the **** up it was a win/win and everyone's happy. Both parties need to grow up and stop trying to taunt each other when we're both happy with what we got. Also if you're still comparing Beams' departure with Aish's then pull your damn head in. There were similarities sure but Christ the differences are stark.

- Bell - I loved watching him this year. Not the most skilled as people like to point out but I'm confident we have enough quality ball users that a stray kick or two from him can be covered. Not to mention the physicality and attitude he brings to the team. I was completely against Robbo coming in last year but anyone who watched him this year and said they wouldn't love to have another guy like that in their team is kidding themselves. I see Bell as a slightly more talented version of Robbo and I'm excited to have him.

- Bastinac - Hard to judge a guy who's been played out of position as the North fans tell me. I know the potential is there and even if he never unlocks that, he will remain a solid role player and having a 100 games of experience is actually quite valuable on our list hey. In the end we didn't actually give up that much for him (17 more or less equalled 38 and 40) and it was only a late 20's pick in a weak draft which we didn't want anyway wasn't it? Would be nice if blueiris stopped running around embarrassing himself before giving the bloke a chance.

- Walker and Jansen - Jansen could be anything. More or less got him for free so can't be mad at taking the punt on someone with his physical attributes. Even if he only is a fringe/NEAFL player, he will put more pressure on those in the side to keep their spot than some of the bloked that have been fulfilling that role the last few years. Same thing goes for Bastinac and the people who insist that he isn't that good.
Walker will definitely serve a valuable purpose too. From what I've seen he leads well which is something some of our young keys don't do so much so it will be nice to have. I reckon 30-35 on the best defender is about what we'll get from him which I would consider a win. Also valuable being that he gives the young fellas a bit more time to lift some weights and get their heads around it all before they eventually come through and send him back to the NEAFL in 2 or 3 years time. At the price we paid I'm definitely happy about it.

- Draft Picks - We've also further set ourselves up to ensure we get an additional 3 highly rated Queenslanders and a very highly rated one next year. Some first round talent on our list would be brilliant.



tl;dr: my attempt at a rational analysis of this thread.

Top post

 

[The 747]

Judging by our recent ability to develop talented midfielders into superstars, this deal is going to look VERY embarrassing for Brisbane in a few years.

When you have people like Leppitch and Matthews publicly lying though it's no wonder kids want out, something very rotten.

Who are these superstars?

 

[BPikkers]

Which ever way Brisbane Lions' supporters try to rationalise it, this was an embarrassing flip-flop and one that was entirely avoidable. Instead of sticking to its guns and 'drawing a line in the sand', it completely buckled. Rather than sending a strong message to the rest of the competition, which I presume was the idea, they look weak and disorganised.

When Swann and Matthews make unequivocal statements and then go to water, they do the club no favours. I'm glad they buckled, but sooner or later they will need to hold firm. Tonight, no matter how they try to dress it up, it's a backdown and next year and the year after, the strong statements will have no impact at all.

Brisbane blinked. Of course, there's the elephant in the room that nobody seems to be talking about. How long can he last?

In their defense I think the Lions needed to get the AFL to listen to the prospect of longer term contracts for early draft picks. It seems most of us agree that an early pick should be signed to at least a 3 yr contract.

Matthews wouldn't care less how others perceive his comments and then trading Aish. He achieved what he wanted to achieve:
1. AFL will probably review the contract term;
2. There will be a perception that the Lions will only deal if it is a win/win;
3. Future draft picks may just let the Lions know upfront where they want to play.

On top of this, a few players became available for the Lions which they felt would be good, long term players for them and who knows, that additional 2nd round pick may not have been made available if he wasn't so vocal.

So all in all, I think he succeeded

 

[dlanod]

Top post

With a first post like that, he's setting us up for disappointment for the next 100s or 1000s.

 

[irish]

Pies should remember and take note aish is like the tin man , he has no heart, carne give him one either !

Should read the instructions before you buy ! Brisbane may have done better than you know, let's revisit this at seasons end !

 

[dlanod]

who knows, that additional 2nd round pick may not have been made available if he wasn't so vocal.

If Aish had been leaving a couple of years ago, we probably would've taken the second rounder + spare player offer because we didn't have any leg to stand on.

This year we positioned every trade leading up to the Aish trade to put ourselves in a situation where we could back up our threat if we had to, without leaving us noticeably worse off. I think this preparation resulted in Collingwood eventually coming to the party with the offer that many of us were thinking was fair from very early on (two second rounders).

Ultimately if we had been able to turn pick 26 into a better future pick, e.g. GC getting Fremantle's 2016 second rounder for pick 35, I think a lot of Brisbane supporters would be happier - but that's not a reflection on the trade between Collingwood and Brisbane.

 

[BPikkers]

Pies should remember and take note aish is like the tin man , he has no heart, carne give him one either !

Should read the instructions before you buy ! Brisbane may have done better than you know, let's revisit this at seasons end !

He seemed OK in his 1st year. I wonder what you thought of him then? I'm surprised that he doesn't turn 20 until next month. He must have just made the cutoff age in that draft.

We pretty much got back this years draft pick that we have up. It will be interesting to see whether the guy we recruit is a better player than Aish.

But as you said, the next 3 years will tell, as it will with all players traded

 

[MagpieJoel]

There will be slow progress up the ladder over the next few years. Get back to us in three years when Bell is 27, Bastinac is 27, Beams about 28-29 and some of our younger players currently aged about 19-21 now, are reaching their prime in their mid twenties. Then we'll be starting to win against the top sides, with both Bastinac and Bell still in the senior side. Barring injury, both will play over 100 games for the Lions.

Good luck with all that, but you'll be missing a few KP players. Once those are developed, those older blokes will be gone.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Good luck with all that, but you'll be missing a few KP players. Once those are developed, those older blokes will be gone.

Clarke, Andrews, Hipwood, Close, McStay, Freeman and Schache will be nicely placed to contribute at that stage.

 

[BEEG]

Most players turn it around when they get out of Brisbane, good chance Aish will be no different.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Most players turn it around when they get out of Brisbane, good chance Aish will be no different.

You need to provide evidence to back up your assertions, I'll help you out this time but take note that this is a serious discussion forum that has very serious real life consequences.

Here is a graph of Aish's progress since joining Brisbane:

 

[legendstatus]

A poll of Josh Walker vs Jesse White would be interesting.

Quietly confident.

Surely taking the Pi$$ if not White? surely??????

 

[dlanod]

Most players turn it around when they get out of Brisbane, good chance Aish will be no different.

I know, right?

Anthony Corrie.
Rhan Hooper.
Jared Brennan.
Patrick Karnezis.
Todd Banfield.
Richard Hadley.
Dylan McLaren.
Cameron Wood.
Justin Sherman.
Broc McCauley.
Bradd Dalziell.
Scott Harding.
Joel Macdonald.
Colm Begley.
Chris Schmidt.
Haydn Kiel.

You can make a lot of claims, but pretty much every players who leave Brisbane end up being just as good or bad as reasonable observers could expect when they left. And there's plenty of examples because for some reason clubs just love giving our players second chances.

 

[Schraderbrau]

A poll of Josh Walker vs Jesse White would be interesting.

Quietly confident.

The fact he is being compared to Jessie White would make me quietly unconfident. It's a case of useless by association imo.

 

[iGNITER]

A poll of Josh Walker vs Jesse White would be interesting.

Quietly confident.

Oh boy.

 

[Pendles!]

A poll of Josh Walker vs Jesse White would be interesting.

Quietly confident.

To be fair, Jesse is our third tall. Walker will be your number one go to man...

 

[Pendles!]

Who are these superstars?

Pendlebury, Swan, Beams, Thomas (before injury), Sidebottom has come on pretty well too. Good track record there.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Can understand Pies fans wanting to talk up their latest acquisitions but the vested interest in talking down the acquisitions of the trade partner is pretty interesting in a psychological sense.

The lack of a "moving on" mindset speaks to something deeper and underlying.