Game Day JLT2 - Carlton vs Collingwood - Monday 11th March 2.10PM @ Morwell - Final Team Post #777

[murphster]

Where is stoker ?


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Finishing writing Dracula 2

 

[HBF]

Disagree. He is jumping above Grundy easily and in the last 1/4 proved he can monster even the best.

Not taking anything away from Phillips, but Grundy did sustain what looked to be a corky early in the last qtr.

 

[Blues_fest]

Well, we have Ed Curnow who when he stops dominating as a forward is a hard, tough, contested 2 way running mid.

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[rp84]

Loved plenty of things but gee Dow had a touch of the Kerridge's today (and against Essendon).

Fish was similar in the first half but improved in the second hald.

 

[HBF]

Gee how exciting is it to watch Setterfield running around in the CFC guernsey?? He's a special kind of player.
Exciting times ahead for the Bluebaggers!!

If he can get some continuity with his footy he could be something pretty special.

 

[Jimmae]

[deep breath]

You've got it in for Phillips for some reason and it's clouding your judgement.

He was genuinely pretty good...broke even in the ruck contests and did some nice things around the ground.

A few nice follow up plays where he impacted the contested.
He made a really good defensive spoil on Varcoe that unfortunately went straight to Elliott who kicked a classy goal despite Phillips' lunging smother attempt.

Don't know how you could say he had a bad game.

I’m pretty sure I was talking about his jumping and hit outs. **** the round the ground stuff at the moment. Who knows what kind of preparation he’s had in terms of fitness. He may have had a strong session day before yesterday. He may have been kept on the ground to build fitness and endure. He was great at centre bounces. Particularly the last.

Wot? He had more TOG, 4 touches and less hit outs. He got absolutely creamed by grundy in stoppages, around the ground, offensively and defensively. A few good moments here and there did not make that Phillips performance a good one.

Thank you. Grundy copped a knock to the quad and took it easy, though you've got the TOG wrong: Phillips managed just the 76%, which means he was roasted, rolled and put in a keepsake box by Grundy.

They were awful numbers for a solo ruck, and what's more I genuinely enjoyed McKay's pressure around the ball when he took a turn in the ruck, because he actually won clearances and laid tackles. Phillips' greatest defensive contribution was not letting his opponent outmark him when our mids were kicking to him. The Phillips experiment has to end, because he can't contribute any way other than a solo ruck, and he's clearly not fit enough to be a solo ruck.

Outside of the centre bounce, he's a ****ing mirage, and I don't understand how people can think a player that can't impact the game properly for 70-80% of the time they're involved in the play should be commended for their performance, or even selected. Rucks got away with this shit in another era, but guys like Fitzpatrick, Allen, Madden and Nicholls must look at this bloke and shake their heads.

Forget the ungainly style (even though it goes some way to explaining his deficiencies), he's empirically shit. In an era of the club when we're working so hard on improving the list, I look at him and wonder what miracle they're expecting out of his endurance base and lower body strength that allows him to have more than 4 moments a game in the season proper. He should never have been signed for this year, and I'm ****ing sick of people wringing their hands as though I'm automatically digging into his character. It's a professional sport, and while he might attempt to maintain himself professionally, the expansion of and output produced in his game are manifestly inadequate compared to his peers.

We played with 4 on the bench most of the game whereas they played all 6.

Also they played 24 players as opposed to our 22

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They are playing with 2 more players on the bench than us.

Nope: they played 4 on the bench, and subbed out Crocker and Elliot for Howe and Tyler Brown. There might have been a small 10 minute overlap in the 3rd quarter (which is the intelligent thing to do in case someone twinges a muscle in the warm up), but aside from that they did not actively run a 6-man bench.

We really do judge quickly on players. Phillips was very good last week. Just okay today against best ruck in AFL. Still very inexperienced. Let him get a run at it before truly assessing. Has good qualities and things he needs to improve but so does everyone

He's been here 4 years, he should be at the peak of his powers. I get that his leap teases people into thinking he can dominate, but hitouts to advantage at the centre bounce is such a small aspect of the game in terms of his overall responsibilities, that he should be receiving such glowing reviews.

This, and Bolton's obsession with trying to play three or more talls up forward at all costs, are the things that will probably get him fired. You determine who the intelligent and capable players are on your list, and you form a game plan around them, you do not pick ancient archetypes and act like you're re-inventing the wheel.

In fact, here we go: I always forget Phillips is a Tassie boy. Now it makes sense.

Plowman looms as a huge problem if selected in Round 1 (and let's face it, given no Marchbank/Docherty/Williamson he almost certainly will be). Looked like he'd never played a game of football in his life at times today.

I think he looks much more mobile, and the only way I can justify some of his and Garlett's defensive lapses is if they were told to swap defensive roles at packs in order to give them some match hardening for when they need to pinch hit as small and medium defenders respectively.

 

[norway blue]

That was a bit of fun wasn’t it?
Good last quarter when a few of the quieter players got involved, I’m fairly happy with that!
See yas next thursdee night!

Post of the thread .


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[JustaBattler]

Gees I thought fisher did ok

yeah naaah - he had zero hurt factor and was quite scrappy by his standards..Collingwood mids close space real fast..

 

[norway blue]

We were +1 in inside 50s, despite their over-possessing of the football. Not a disaster by any means.

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[norway blue]

This . Re fish. Just love fish .


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[TooBlue14]

[deep breath]




Thank you. Grundy copped a knock to the quad and took it easy, though you've got the TOG wrong: Phillips managed just the 76%, which means he was roasted, rolled and put in a keepsake box by Grundy.

They were awful numbers for a solo ruck, and what's more I genuinely enjoyed McKay's pressure around the ball when he took a turn in the ruck, because he actually won clearances and laid tackles. Phillips' greatest defensive contribution was not letting his opponent outmark him when our mids were kicking to him. The Phillips experiment has to end, because he can't contribute any way other than a solo ruck, and he's clearly not fit enough to be a solo ruck.

Outside of the centre bounce, he's a ******* mirage, and I don't understand how people can think a player that can't impact the game properly for 70-80% of the time they're involved in the play should be commended for their performance, or even selected. Rucks got away with this shit in another era, but guys like Fitzpatrick, Allen, Madden and Nicholls must look at this bloke and shake their heads.

Forget the ungainly style (even though it goes some way to explaining his deficiencies), he's empirically shit. In an era of the club when we're working so hard on improving the list, I look at him and wonder what miracle they're expecting out of his endurance base and lower body strength that allows him to have more than 4 moments a game in the season proper. He should never have been signed for this year, and I'm ******* sick of people wringing their hands as though I'm automatically digging into his character. It's a professional sport, and while he might attempt to maintain himself professionally, the expansion of and output produced in his game are manifestly inadequate compared to his peers.





Nope: they played 4 on the bench, and subbed out Crocker and Elliot for Howe and Tyler Brown. There might have been a small 10 minute overlap in the 3rd quarter (which is the intelligent thing to do in case someone twinges a muscle in the warm up), but aside from that they did not actively run a 6-man bench.



He's been here 4 years, he should be at the peak of his powers. I get that his leap teases people into thinking he can dominate, but hitouts to advantage at the centre bounce is such a small aspect of the game in terms of his overall responsibilities, that he should be receiving such glowing reviews.

This, and Bolton's obsession with trying to play three or more talls up forward at all costs, are the things that will probably get him fired. You determine who the intelligent and capable players are on your list, and you form a game plan around them, you do not pick ancient archetypes and act like you're re-inventing the wheel.

In fact, here we go: I always forget Phillips is a Tassie boy. Now it makes sense.


I think he looks much more mobile, and the only way I can justify some of his and Garlett's defensive lapses is if they were told to swap defensive roles at packs in order to give them some match hardening for when they need to pinch hit as small and medium defenders respectively.

But we played a four man bench ALL game. I couldn’t care less what they did with their 6.

 

[Michael Jezz]

People who are worried about Plowman...I would worry about Garlett first.
Murphy never plays well in practice games. He will be fine on a flank
Polson is a worry

 

[cookie monster]

Drinking a bit earlier than usual? He didn't even run the game out properly.

Need to agree with this. Was gassed in the last and really just went through the motions

 

[Blue and Blue]

Just watched it after having to work.
Not going to say much.

Good win....well it felt like a win to me.
First quarter...is why we dont like umpires.
The guys worked hard all day.
We tired towards the middle of the third against a bigger more mature mob. (I think the filth are one dimensional and too many talls and similar players.)
Our fantastic conditioning became apparent in the last.

The highlights..... all our forwards and Fish shook the rust off in the last quarter and it started to click.
Straight kicking and we waltz away.

 

[F_therest]

What's up with Murphy? Looks fit, but also looks like a shadow of his former self. Not sure we used the JLT to give more midfield minutes to the kids, but Murphy has been disappointing in both games now. Maybe a bit harsh, but we all know what he is capable of.

Jones and Cripps were terrific. Liked the games from McKay, Weitering, Fisher, SPS and Simpson. Especially SPS! Always had the skills, now he's got a solid fitness base and is growing in confidence.

Felt Collingwood could of won by 6-7 goals if they put the foot down. But a real credit to our boys for never giving up and playing till the final siren. This is the kind of attitude and culture I've been waiting to see for years now.

Really? I got the impression that Collingwood were taking it seriously and trying near 100%, like us and most teams in JLT2.

Their best players got heaps of the ball, they played at a high pace and intensity, and i didn't see much experimenting from them - for the most part they played in their normal structure.

Not sure what makes you think they could have 'put the foot down' further.

 

[HBF]

I’d be tempted to bring Casboult for McGovern, who’s ridiculously underdone.

Still only cameos from Polson too, who probably makes way for Fasolo.

Was thinking the same thing watching the game. Gov needs to really build his confidence in the VFL for a month or so.

 

[murphster]

Said it more than once he doesn't like contact. He doesn't hit contests or ride bumps. Deer in the headlights.

The problem is he doesn't have the pace or disposal to not hit contests.

Had most tackles in the team with 7.

 

[F_therest]

McGovern was genuinely taking the piss for the first three quarters but good to see him pull his finger out and get involved in the last, suspect we'll see a much more switched on player in Round 1.

Charlie was putrid but I don't think it's anything to be concerned about whatsoever, I think he's also eyeing off Round 1.

Jones was amazing and is looking really solid, looks set for a really strong season. Weitering also very good.

Loved SPS's game. Fisher worked into it strongly after an average first half.

Cripps looked to be going through the motions somewhat today but was still a standout contributor.

The scoreboard definitely flattered us, felt like Collingwood were just toying with us for extended periods of the match.

Plowman looms as a huge problem if selected in Round 1 (and let's face it, given no Marchbank/Docherty/Williamson he almost certainly will be). Looked like he'd never played a game of football in his life at times today.

Eyeing off round 1 or not, it was a surprise to see Charlie play THAT badly...everyone he touched turned to shit. Missed a sitter in the last quarter as well that might have won us the game. Not sure why he was also constantly caught behind his opponent and not offering strong leads...im assuming he just really didn't bother to exert himself today and risk injury.

If Jones plays like that each week he's a real chance for AA...needs to keep it simple and he can be dominant.

I don't think the scoreboard flattered us...i mean we had more scoring shots in the end. It's not like they kicked 9.16 and could have thrashed us. We made it tough for them to score.

 

[agro]

Plowman looks like he can't give a shit, I'd chalk it up to JLT but it's a trend. No urgency and lacks effort/smarts.!

The problem with Plowman is that he actually can give a shit, but what he’s showing is the best he can do an the best he’s always done.

He can’t play on the smalls as he lacks mobility and even Elliot outbodied him today in a one on one contest, and he can’t play on talls because he gets outmuscled.

His disposal (other than switch kicks) his very dodgy.

He really has no effective position or role - I’d rather JSOS in his place.

 

[Jimmae]

Those critical of Phillips should see his performance in context. The money ball philosophy starts with an acceptance that no team can possess the best player for every position. The aim is instead to maximise the output you get in each role with the minimum investment of resources.

In this game we saw a backup ruckman on on bottom dollar received via a multipick trade (free)
battle hard (+5 1%ers, +1CM, halved a bunch of contests) but ultimately get outclassed (+6 HO, +13Disp at 60%, +12% TOG, nailed some big plays) by
an AA ruckman valued somewhere around 6-700K on the open market and drafted with a first round pick.

Your interpretation of list management analytics (aka moneyball) is horse shit. The goal is to understand the core objectives of the sport, how that can be won in the context of a given game plan (or game plans that an organisation is happy to play using its current or future resources) and attempt to describe this using statistical analysis.

The end point is to deliver maximum value from a player, and - if needed - to find grossly undervalued players from external sources and get results out of them. What is seemingly being underestimated with Phillips is his total lack of consistency both on-field and in terms of games played per season.

This is now his 4th season with us, and he looks no better off than when he started with us, nor any better than his time at GWS. For all intents and purposes, he seems to have developed absolutely nothing about his game in 8 years in the system. This is not just an observation, it's an empirical (read: statistical) fact. When your eyes match the numbers, you have to realise that you cannot pick a bloke for fleeting moments when he flounders 5-8 times out of 10.

That we as an organisation value the idea of centre bounce hitouts to advantage so highly as to give this guy a 2-year contract twice is the very definition of a collective delusion, and still looks ridiculous after the rules were adjusted in his favour. What's more, in that same amount of time we could have acquired a youngster and well and truly developed them to perform at least as good as he has on the aggregate, for at least as much as he has, likely better.

There is no on-field performance-based argument that justifies Phillips being on the list after the 2017 season, assuming we even needed to include him in that original GWS trade. The entire machination of his acquisition points to a complete lack of creative thinking when contrasted against other ruck acquisitions at the time, and our own use of Casboult and Gorringe.

 

[F_therest]

I reckon i'd play Polson ahead of Gibbons. He looked out of his depth today.

TBH Polson always looks out of his depth.

Has more size now and he's running pretty well, but disposal still sloppy and he makes some poor decisions.

That moment he had the ball at half forward and blindly kicked into our forward line straight to the Collingwood player even though we had a 2 on 1 was a shocker. No composure.

I'm also yet to see him do anything special around goal, like a quick snap or crumbing goal like Cunners has shown. Have to be able to do that imo to be a dangerous small forward, he's just too limited.

 

[F_therest]

Loved plenty of things but gee Dow had a touch of the Kerridge's today (and against Essendon).

Fish was similar in the first half but improved in the second hald.

From what i've seen of him so far at AFL level he is a bit inconsistent by foot and his kicking for goal has been pretty poor so far. Early days though of course.

 

[BigBlue]

The biggest issue from Today's game is Marc Murphy. He butchers it way way too often. You saw Collingwood mids punishing us with their inside 50, whilst Murphy punished us with his turnovers. I really think he's a liability.

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Couldn't agree more. The guy has been a liability for years. Watched the game today, he was responsible for countless turnovers. Whether they be by directly kicking to the opposition or by sh!tting himself when put under the slightest pressure.

Horrible to watch. So frustrating, but he'll still have countless apologists here making excuses for him.

 

[Blue and Blue]

LD a serious question - how did we get within 4 points while playing poorly and having 110 less possessions?

We didnt play poorly because we were being beaten. We played like a horse being set for a certain race...it started to click once we found the second wind and the colliwobbles were blowing. Round 1 matters. Practice matches are for getting the cobwebs dusted. Now they can have a rest and be ready to play serious.

 

[katmanblue]

Finishing writing Dracula 2

murphster goes Bram!

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