Moved Thread John Longmire vs Chris Scott - the better coach?

[sataris]

My favourite part of this thread is how nobody outside of nsw understands how cola and/or the academies work.

main board delivers again.

 

[TheUnicorn]

My favourite part of this thread is how nobody outside of nsw understands how cola and/or the academies work.

main board delivers again.

Did you just generalise an entire messaging board :O ??

 

[HairyO]

My favourite part of this thread is how nobody outside of nsw understands how cola and/or the academies work.

main board delivers again.

My favourite part is how Aussie Rules illiterate Sydney people are despite nearly 40 years of the Swans.

Most people know all about what COLA was meant to do and what the Swans decided to do with it and what the AFL then did.

 

[sataris]

My favourite part is how Aussie Rules illiterate Sydney people are despite nearly 40 years of the Swans.

Most people know all about what COLA was meant to do and what the Swans decided to do with it and what the AFL then did.

Wrong.

But then again I expect nothing less from the shithole that is the main board.

 

[WillHayward]

Sydney and GWS are both set up in a way so they have the advantage of a constant stream of young talent coming through the ranks, in which they have first access to.

Geelong would have this advantage too if they had first access to Geelong Falcons players, but fortunately they don't, because the Geelong Falcons are arguably the best footy factory in the country.

Geelong cash in on the Falcons with the "go home" factor.

What do you think Dangerfield is doing at Geelong?

This is a huge advantage and Geelong get tangible benefits for it.

Dalhaus and Higgins also former Falcons.

 

[pride of the West]

Richmond average 1 flag every 10 years Geelong average 1 flag every 13.4 years, Geelong even though they joined the VFL/AFL 11 years before Richmond joined, has never had more flags than Richmond.
Richmond's longest breaks without flags have been 11 years, 12 years, 24 years and 37 year, our last flag was 1 yesr ago.
Geelongs longest breaks without flags have been 11 years, 14 years, 28 years and 44 years and your currently 8 years from your last flag and counting, even your two micknames are related to you losing the Cats comes from black cat after a losing streak and handbaggers as you always failed when the big game pressure was on.

Maybe you should do some fact checking before throwing out ridiculous statements about going into hibernation?

Love it! Cats and Tigers are both going into hibernation both won’t make finals next year. Richmond have had the biggest fall from premiers one year to 12th worst since 97. Also had the easiest draw at the start of the year.

 

[Tiger2709]

Love it! Cats and Tigers are both going into hibernation both won’t make finals next year. Richmond have had the biggest fall from premiers one year to 12th worst since 97. Also had the easiest draw at the start of the year.

WCE supporters how cute.

 

[Wolfgang West]

My favourite part is how Aussie Rules illiterate Sydney people are despite nearly 40 years of the Swans.

Most people know all about what COLA was meant to do and what the Swans decided to do with it and what the AFL then did.

My favourite part is how the same illiterate people who post the same illiterate things seem to think every Swans person that posts here is from Sydney.
Buddy says Hi.

 

[HairyO]

My favourite part is how the same illiterate people who post the same illiterate things seem to think every Swans person that posts here is from Sydney.
Buddy says Hi.

He is probably too busy picking up while Jacinta is out of the country to be chatting to people in internet forums.

 

[Bloods86]

My favourite part is how Aussie Rules illiterate Sydney people are despite nearly 40 years of the Swans.

Most people know all about what COLA was meant to do and what the Swans decided to do with it and what the AFL then did.

He is probably too busy picking up while Jacinta is out of the country to be chatting to people in internet forums.

COLA was to remove or at least alleviate a disadvantage that certain clubs have, which is now back in place.

The Swans followed the AFL rules on it, i.e. negotiate contracts and then pay an additional 9.8% on top of each contract, not save the money up.

The AFL gave us a trade ban for upsetting them and their wishes of getting Buddy to their pet GWS project. Also dropped the bulk of COLA at short notice, despite not actually giving a counter argument to why it was set up in the first place.

I mean, we can talk about Aussie Rules literacy, but you're the one regurgitating Eddie McGuire / "footy state" media talking points without any basis.

Jesinta, not Jacinta, is in country.

Can you get anything right?

 

[VernonSpots]

The Swans followed the AFL rules on it, i.e. negotiate contracts and then pay an additional 9.8% on top of each contract, not save the money up.

So you are saying every Swan got 10pc more than they would have without COLA. Do you think perhaps you had a bunch of players probably earning similar or slightly above what they would receive at a non-NSW club which left a warchest for star players?

Put it another way, do you think that some of those contracts were negotiated say 5pc below market and then the 10pc COLA added?

 

[Bloods86]

So you are saying every Swan got 10pc more than they would have without COLA. Do you think perhaps you had a bunch of players probably earning similar or slightly above what they would receive at a non-NSW club which left a warchest for star players?

Put it another way, do you think that some of those contracts were negotiated say 5pc below market and then the 10pc COLA added?

Anyone who says this is missing the point of COLA entirely. It was to create a more level playing field between NSW clubs and others (at least in the Swans situation), and to try and create a more level living field between players, without disadvantaging the club. Let's assume for example, the COL differential was 9.8% exactly (it's probably worse than that, but whatever). The point of the allowance was that the Swans could pay a player say $500k, the AFL put 9.8% on top, making it ~$550k, which would afford the equivalent standard of living for both the player living in Sydney, as if they were living elsewhere, and also where another club couldn't just come along and offer the same amount as the Swans, but since it's cheaper elsewhere, the player takes the offer as it gives them a higher standard of living.

Similarly, it further levelled the playing field when trying to attract players TO Sydney, where the club could offer the same amount as one from elsewhere and with COLA, the offer would be considered equivalent to the player (again assuming COL was actually 9.8%). Maybe you could argue players might not understand all this and be tricked (I mean certainly a lot of AFL fans don't understand it), but their managers certainly would and would argue for fair value, not accepting unders to then get COLA (which would still leave them worse off than elsewhere).

Maybe, just maybe, an established player, well into their career with the Swans, would accept that 5% under market rate, knowing they'd be 5% over after COLA, but the player / player manager would know what was going on, i.e. that they'd be making a sacrifice vs how they could live elsewhere, and have every right to ask for market rate. Also in that scenario, let's say you have 5 of these types on big money, say $700k each. 5% of $3.5m is $175k. What a massive war chest. And if you're going to argue that mythical $175k unfair, we can always get into media and 3rd party deals (above and under the table) that largely benefit "footy state" players and their clubs.

And since it's not even the point of this thread, I'm going to say I don't think you can split Longmire and Scott. Both very good coaches. Longmire probably has had to work with less though.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sheesh here we go again.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Who really cares is the answer here but one thing I do know is Longmire is more chance of winning another flag before both end their tenures.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Who really cares is the answer here but one thing I do know is Longmire is more chance of winning another flag before both end their tenures.

I think you really care.

 

[Wolfgang West]

I think you really care.

I could not give a flying ****. Do you ? A bit worried Scott and his theatrics and sooking are wearing a bit thin ?

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

I could not give a flying ****. Do you ? A bit worried Scott and his theatrics and sooking are wearing a bit thin ?

I actually don’t care, notice the lack of pot shots at Longmire in my response.

The fact that some consider Scott a better coach obviously doesn’t sit well with you.

 

[Superstar swan]

I used to be super critical of horse. He appeared to lack the ability to develop young players, he had no plan b game style and insisted on that four , big the ball down game style for years at all costs.

However he has shown to be a great judge of young players that come in, rarely does a player make a debut without being ready.

The big one is game style, the club slowly brought in high skill level players capable of moving the ball and he designed a gamestyle that suits them perfectly. This shows that he is very goof at recognising a lists strengths and weaknesses and be able to build the gamestyle accordingly.

I do think he makes mistakes from time to time for example at times but all in all he is a great coach and by all reports the players love him

 

[RUNVS]

I used to be super critical of horse. He appeared to lack the ability to develop young players, he had no plan b game style and insisted on that four , big the ball down game style for years at all costs.

However he has shown to be a great judge of young players that come in, rarely does a player make a debut without being ready.

The big one is game style, the club slowly brought in high skill level players capable of moving the ball and he designed a gamestyle that suits them perfectly. This shows that he is very goof at recognising a lists strengths and weaknesses and be able to build the gamestyle accordingly.

I do think he makes mistakes from time to time for example at times but all in all he is a great coach and by all reports the players love him

Yep. I am not sure what has shifted with him but 2021 proved that he is now actually capable of changing game plans to suit our new players. The 2021 team is very different to the 2012 team and needs a very different game style to win games. In 2019 I felt he was still trying to play like 2012 but with a group of players who physically could not do what he wanted them to do as they were not the inside hard at it players of 2012. Now though, in 2021 he has shown he is able to look at the list we have and modify it, now doing things that suit our team of players who are generally good kicks and like running with the ball.

 

[Superstar swan]

Yep. I am not sure what has shifted with him but 2021 proved that he is now actually capable of changing game plans to suit our new players. The 2021 team is very different to the 2012 team and needs a very different game style to win games. In 2019 I felt he was still trying to play like 2012 but with a group of players who physically could not do what he wanted them to do as they were not the inside hard at it players of 2012. Now though, in 2021 he has shown he is able to look at the list we have and modify it, now doing things that suit our team of players who are generally good kicks and like running with the ball.

As frustrating as the style was, looking at the lists he had then it was the right thing to do by horse. We barely had any players who could kick the ball and get it to spin backwards let alone hit a target and very few line breakers. The current incarnation of the club has proven to me he is a very adaptive coach and extremely good at being honest and understanding what players individually and collectively are capable of. He has very little ego (what we see publicly anyway ) and goes in to bat for his players every chance he can.

Best coach the club has ever had

 

[RUNVS]

As frustrating as the style was, looking at the lists he had then it was the right thing to do by horse. We barely had any players who could kick the ball and get it to spin backwards let alone hit a target and very few line breakers. The current incarnation of the club has proven to me he is a very adaptive coach and extremely good at being honest and understanding what players individually and collectively are capable of. He has very little ego (what we see publicly anyway ) and goes in to bat for his players every chance he can.

Best coach the club has ever had

Amazing how quick our club has changed too. Guys like Blakey, Campbell, McInerney, Warner, Gulden etc are all really good kicks and all love attacking with the ball in hand.

 

[Boxhead_31]

We do have strong youth coming through in

McCartin
Stoddart
Hayward
Florent
Ronke
Dawson
Mills
Melican
Papley
Heeney
Hewett

who are all under 23 years old but none of those players are due to Longmire being a good coach, and all to do with us having good recruiters.

Or academies preventing other clubs from accessing them

 

[RUNVS]

Or academies preventing other clubs from accessing them

In the history of the Swans acadmey we have had 3 first round selections. That isn't a big amount.

 

[Tedeski]

Sydney and GWS are both set up in a way so they have the advantage of a constant stream of young talent coming through the ranks, in which they have first access to.

Geelong would have this advantage too if they had first access to Geelong Falcons players, but fortunately they don't, because the Geelong Falcons are arguably the best footy factory in the country.

You mean something like this?

Next Generation Academy | AFL Victoria

www.aflvic.com.au

 

[Tedeski]

Or a rort like this?

Geelong - News, Fixtures, Scores & Results - geelongcats.com.au

Geelong Football Club. All the latest news, video, results and information

www.geelongcats.com.au

Next Generation Academy | Western Bulldogs

The Next Generation Academies (NGA's) are a joint initiative between the AFL and AFL Clubs aimed at the attraction, retention and development of all talented players

www.westernbulldogs.com.au

Next Generation Academy

Richmond has kicked off its Next Generation Academy Program pre-season program for 2018.

www.richmondfc.com.au

Hawthorn's Next Generation Academy

News and information about Hawthorn's Next Generation Academy program

www.hawthornfc.com.au