Recommitted Josh Kelly [re-signed]

[Turboman1994]

Coupled with the Heeney offer it seems more desperate rather than a well executed plan.

kind of an irrelevant point north have cap space that needs to be filled targeting good young players is a good strategy. swans dont have many young players that can command a dollar outside mills and heeney. Compared to gws Hopper, Shiel, Whitfield, Taranto, Kelly, Kennedy, Cameron are all very good players that will attract good coin offers from vic. Not saying they will leave or admittedly I am not privy on contact situations its just an uphill battle that will continue for atleast another 5 years imo

 

[newblueo]

funny how free agent paymeant combo works 600 grand is round 1 pick just about. so pricing wise he is worth . 2 first round picks. i rate him highly his first 2 weeks so far he was outstanding

pick this year an next done deal all people happy

 

[bird_man]

kind of an irrelevant point north have cap space that needs to be filled targeting good young players is a good strategy. swans dont have many young players that can command a dollar outside mills and heeney. Compared to gws Hopper, Shiel, Whitfield, Taranto, Kelly, Kennedy, Cameron are all very good players that will attract good coin offers from vic. Not saying they will leave or admittedly I am not privy on contact situations its just an uphill battle that will continue for atleast another 5 years imo

North have cap space, but it doesn't mean they have to pay it all. They could be front loading contracts, paying 95% of the cap, rebuilding through the draft and then target big fish once they have some solid youth and able to spend 105% of the cap.

I'm not sure getting a big fish is going to do a great deal for them at this stage, they need to improve the whole list IMO.

 

[Ry009]

I'm not sure getting a big fish is going to do a great deal for them at this stage, they need to improve the whole list IMO.

So getting a very good player with skills we sorely lack won't address that?....

 

[Wild Bill]

SO you're getting Martin and Kelly? WHat about Fyfe and Shiel or maybe even Cripps? You'll get Kelly but only becuase your paying him way overs.No chance of getting Dusty,You think he's going to a club for 100-200k before tax that is behind his current club?

He may take 100-200k less to get out of there.

 

[Toadvine]

He may take 100-200k less to get out of there.

 

[bird_man]

So getting a very good player with skills we sorely lack won't address that?....

It will, but I suppose it depends on what you'll have to give up to get him. GWS will likely want at least a similar deal to what they got with Treloar. They may even push for more with the deal he'd be getting. I don't think North at this stage want to be giving up two first round picks when you are trying to rebuild your side. And there doesn't seem to be a lot of value on the list that you can trade out to get back in the first round?

 

[Orange Agent]

Id say throwing out contract terms like these suggests he isnt overly keen on moving.

 

[Nutjob]

North have cap space, but it doesn't mean they have to pay it all. They could be front loading contracts, paying 95% of the cap, rebuilding through the draft and then target big fish once they have some solid youth and able to spend 105% of the cap.

I'm not sure getting a big fish is going to do a great deal for them at this stage, they need to improve the whole list IMO.

We have front loaded about as much as we can. The contracts of Goldstein, ziebell and Cunnington and others were heavily front loaded. Plus the money left over from wells leaving. We need to spend a decent amount just to get to the minimum cap.
Kelly is 22 (youth) and will be playing for another 10 years. We have money to spend now so I don't see what benefit we get from waiting a couple of years.



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[Ry009]

I don't think North at this stage want to be giving up two first round picks when you are trying to rebuild your side. And there doesn't seem to be a lot of value on the list that you can trade out to get back in the first round?

We have a developing list now, we've gone to the draft regularly even when we were in our period of aiming for a flag. Those kids need game time, while the older guys need to be phased out.

Kelly is far from a gamble and you need to compliment that development with A grade quality.

There is still this obsession with teams gutting their senior players and leaving youth to develop on their own. How has that worked for Melbourne?

 

[bird_man]

Id say throwing out contract terms like these suggests he isnt overly keen on moving.

I'd say he'd be keen after hearing the contract...

 

[Mikka84]

I'd say he'd be keen after hearing the contract...

How could you say no? If it's remotely near the reported offer - not a single person would ever hold it against him. Once in a lifetime for a young player like that. Will set him up for life.

 

[bird_man]

We have a developing list now, we've gone to the draft regularly even when we were in our period of aiming for a flag. Those kids need game time, while the older guys need to be phased out.

Kelly is far from a gamble and you need to compliment that development with A grade quality.

There is still this obsession with teams gutting their senior players and leaving youth to develop on their own. How has that worked for Melbourne?

You'd know more about your list then me, but to me I don't see a lot of quality youth coming through?

As for your last paragraph, I didn't suggest gutting your senior players at all.

 

[Ry009]

You'd know more about your list then me

Correct, and the list managers at any club more than I.

but to me I don't see a lot of quality youth coming through?

Subjective opinion on the negative scale that could be applied to any club's list at the moment including yours.

As for your last paragraph, I didn't suggest gutting your senior players at all.

What is the alternative? you're suggesting keep going to the draft, tread water and prey for development. When have any successful teams developed purely on organic growth?

 

[G0ther00s]

You're offering him a 9 year @ 1 million deal. He's shown just as much as Treloar and you're dealing with the club that demanded 2 1sts for him. They're going to expect the same for Kelly. You can't pay a kid like he's one of the top 5 players in the comp and expect to get him for 1 1st rounder.

Forgot that I didn't have a 2nd rounder in there which if we finished 5th last would be equal to giving pick 5 and 23 for him. Which I actually think would be enough to get it done. North are obviously not going to start a negotiation offering two first rounder, as then that gives GSW leverage to ask for more.

 

[G0ther00s]

2017 & 2018 1sts for Kelly and a 2017 2nd would be fair IMO, but wow $9mil over 9 is a huge price for a bloke who's not a proven superstar just yet.

Do you consider that in 9 years 1 million a year will be viewed as significantly less than it is now? Actually even in 5 years time that will be the case. For god sake how do people not understand this by now, did they not just see Mayne and Vickery get 500k a year? Two guys that were fringe players in their current club.

 

[G0ther00s]

Kelly is an absolute gun but still a fair bit of risk in this deal. He's more of a cream rather than cake player and is essentially free to do what he likes up at GWS. Yet to prove himself against a hard tag or as a number 1 midfielder, and I don't think he's the sort of player that could drag his team to a win.

I guess it's going depend on the increase in salary cap but 9 years is a bloody huge risk (I'm aware Tom Boyd was a 7 year contract and that could still be a risk going forward).

We have the cake, they need the icing. Cunnington, Dumont (looks like an out and out gun, probably less known to non North fans) and Ziebell can certainly win the in and under ball, but they have no one to distribute it to. Unless you class Sam Gibson and Andrew Swallow as outside polish haha.

 

[Orange Agent]

I'd say he'd be keen after hearing the contract...

I would imagine he would get $600k from us for a further 2 years, after that Griffen, Mumford and Shaw probably all gone and maybe some others, out of the extra 400 half is gone in tax. It most likely comes down to how much worth does a player put on playing in top 8 side V a bottom 8 side.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

I would imagine he would get $600k from us for a further 2 years, after that Griffen, Mumford and Shaw probably all gone and maybe some others, out of the extra 400 half is gone in tax. It most likely comes down to how much worth does a player put on playing in top 8 side V a bottom 8 side.

It also probably depends on whether old Biff Tannen managed to get the sports almanac to the Kelly household before Marty and Doc wised up to it.

 

[Wild Bill]

I would imagine he would get $600k from us for a further 2 years, after that Griffen, Mumford and Shaw probably all gone and maybe some others, out of the extra 400 half is gone in tax. It most likely comes down to how much worth does a player put on playing in top 8 side V a bottom 8 side.

Boyd left a top 8 side to play for a bottom 8 side. Worked out well for him.

You do know 500k clear and 300k clear is significantly different?

 

[Mikka84]

I would imagine he would get $600k from us for a further 2 years, after that Griffen, Mumford and Shaw probably all gone and maybe some others, out of the extra 400 half is gone in tax. It most likely comes down to how much worth does a player put on playing in top 8 side V a bottom 8 side.

You need a better accountant.

 

[dlanod]

Boyd left a top 8 side to play for a bottom 8 side. Worked out well for him.

You do know 500k clear and 300k clear is significantly different?

Which top 8 side did Boyd leave?

 

[Wild Bill]

Which top 8 side did Boyd leave?

Which bottom 8 side would Kelly be joining? Roos are top 8 until we finish outside the top 8. I think you know what I meant however.

 

[dlanod]

Which bottom 8 side would Kelly be joining? Roos are top 8 until we finish outside the top 8. I think you know what I meant however.

GWS finished 16th in the year that Boyd requested a trade, so no I'm not sure what you do mean.

 

[Ry009]

GWS finished 16th in the year that Boyd requested a trade, so no I'm not sure what you do mean.

Despite the path the GC were on, GWS were/are developing and maintaining a very strong list, Boyd walked into a club that only won one more game, and club who basically shelved their coach and appeared to have little direction.