Mega Thread Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet'

[Beandip]

I acknowledge all the stuff about not being able to see how good he'd become at the time, and behind other players etc... but I'd have him ahead of Sewell every time now, and I like and value Sewell. I think Hawthorn fans easily underestimate just how good Joey has become.

 

[Dragz]

As a pure "get the ball" mid, yes, he's probably better than Sewell now. But Sewell can also lock down an opponent.

Wish JK was still with us,but he's not. So pointless worrying about it tbh.

 

[grizzlym]

Even though I offered the use of my gimp dungeon and everything...

I thought you leased that to Kevin Sheedy?

 

[eldorado]

I thought you leased that to Kevin Sheedy?

We've had the developers in, and sub-divided...

 

[Pessimistic]

I acknowledge all the stuff about not being able to see how good he'd become at the time, and behind other players etc... but I'd have him ahead of Sewell every time now, and I like and value Sewell. I think Hawthorn fans easily underestimate just how good Joey has become.

and we lose the R22 game ?

 

[A Diakos]

Guys

from day one i have been critical of the kennedy trade, it was a bad mistake for a number of reasons...however we have a flag to win....now is not the time for this discussion, ...sole focus should be on the premiership now, kennedy is a swan for 2012...after september 30 (when we've hopefully won the flag) we can discuss, but for now lets focus on the now and the bigger fish to fry....hawthorn is always above all

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Wish people would look at before he was traded
The kid was bulky, but it was all fat, little muscle on him

He trimmed down and bulked up

Not to mention he struggled to hit the side of a barn by foot

He's pulled his head out, and the trade did that

At the time he had little value, and most likely would have ended up on the scrapheap

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

He'd replace any midfielder bar Mitchell, and arguably even him.

Based on his form at Sydney, you could say that, however at Hawthorn he'd be fighting an uphill battle to squeeze Lewis or Sewell out of a team that has just won the minor premiership.

 

[QuietB]

and we lose the R22 game ?

If Kennedy is playing for us we do not lose the R22 game - we probably never even fall behind.

 

[Flukey!]

Which players did we end up getting for the Joey trade?

 

[QuietB]

Which players did we end up getting for the Joey trade?

Pick #39 - Grimely
Pick # 46 - Stratton
Pick # 70 - used to upgrade Suckiling (could have used any pick for that)

These three picks were both Kennedy and Mcglyn.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

I don't see why this continues to be a topic of conversation. Hawthorn have always been loaded with strong, grunty ball winners. It's probably been to their detriment in terms of balance as they have searched for more on ballers. Really lucky that guys like Lewis and Hodge can play duel positions.

No doubt JPK has become an elite player but in the now he wouldn't really improve us.

This is a key issue that most seem to miss. If by some miracle JK3 turned up at Hawthorn and said he would play for a bag of chips and Sydney let him go for nothing then he would be most welcome and would improve our list. That of course is not going to happen unless some dodgy second chance Father/Son rule exists and even then he would cost our first round draft pick and he would still have to play for a bag of chips.

Reality is that what we would have to pay would weaken our list on two fronts

1. Player trades. We would have to give up one or two of our top six players. Does JK3 therefore improve our overall list? The answer is no.

2. Salary cap. To fit what's his name within our salary cap would require trading out one or two top six players.

The net result is that Hawthorn is worse off.

Forget about it folks, it's all over red rover.

 

[J0NNY B]

Wish people would look at before he was traded
The kid was bulky, but it was all fat, little muscle on him

He trimmed down and bulked up

Not to mention he struggled to hit the side of a barn by foot

He's pulled his head out, and the trade did that

At the time he had little value, and most likely would have ended up on the scrapheap

JK3 has stated on many occasions that his confidence was shot at Hawthorn and it took 6 months into his first season at Sydney to feel like he belonged. This is the area I hope our club has improved. With guys like Cheney/Schneider/Wanganeen on the cusp of selection, I hope they are all being developed and challenged to play a part in 2013. I am sure they will be.

 

[Flukey!]

Pick #39 - Grimely
Pick # 46 - Stratton
Pick # 70 - used to upgrade Suckiling (could have used any pick for that)

These three picks were both Kennedy and Mcglyn.

So we also did very well form the deal. Win Win.
Time to move on.

 

[Ilovethehawks]

Pick #39 - Grimely
Pick # 46 - Stratton
Pick # 70 - used to upgrade Suckiling (could have used any pick for that)

These three picks were both Kennedy and Mcglyn.

We needed a Stratton a lot more than we needed a Kennedy at the time, and to this day I still think we need a Stratton more than a Kennedy, its all about team balance and our backs are our weakest link, always has been.

 

[WillowSF]

I have strong feelings about this one given the family name. The initial trade was a mistake however we were lucky enough to pickup both Stratton and Suckling who have become very good players.

Josh really is amongst the best midfielders in the competition. He would easily find a spot in our starting 22. To think otherwise is really selling him short. I still think Mitchell is better due to his superior disposal but in my mind he has surpassed both Sewell and Lewis.

If there’s a slight interest from him in coming back to Hawthorn then we should do it. With Mitchell, Hodge & Sewell all on the wrong side of their 20’s there is a place for him. (I suspect however he’s happy where he is.) Nonetheless Swans seem reasonable and wouldn’t stand in his way if we could strike a fair deal.

That said, there is no way we give up Roughead. He is the most versatile big man in the competition! He can play anywhere. As long as we have the combination of Roughead/Franklin firing we are always going to be a premiership contender.

To get him we would have to give up quality and I’m not sure we would be willing to depart with the players Sydney would be interested in. We cannot give up any of our key position players including Shoenmakers.

Hypothetically speaking, these are the players I’d consider offering up that Sydney may be interested in for a potential trade:

Ellis, Gilham, Puopolo, Whitecross, Savage, Young, Smith & Shiels

- I don’t think there would be a huge interest in either Ellis & Gilham. (Neither player may get another opportunity this year.)
- Sydney already have their own version of Puopolo in McGlynn.
- Whitecross’ value would have declined significantly with his knee injury.

That leaves Savage, Young, Smith & Shiels. Shiels has the most upside among this group and probably the one Sydney would want most. Unless they want speed in which case they would go for Isaac. If we could get Kennedy back by letting go one of these players plus our first draft pick then you would have to seriously consider it. It would be hard to see any of these guys leave (particularly Liam) but you have to give up quality to get it.

Also, if any of these players step up and play big games in the remaining finals then there value would increase accordingly.

Anyway, there will be plenty of time to consider these moves after the season has ended.

 

[Pritchard]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Young, smith and Shiels are all just as important to our team structure than what Kennedy would be.
TBH it wasn't that bad of a deal at the time and we aren't missing him at all so I couldn't care less.
Surprised so many people go on about it. Yes he would of been good with Sewell and Mitchell not getting any younger but we have good replacement's as it is.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

..... but I'd have him ahead of Sewell every time now, and I like and value Sewell. I think Hawthorn fans easily underestimate just how good Joey has become.

At getting the loose ball Joey has Sewell covered. At being combative and hard in the pack Sewell easily. Joey is a ball getter/distributor. His competition with us is Sammy.

 

[Hawker55]

Based on his form at Sydney, you could say that, however at Hawthorn he'd be fighting an uphill battle to squeeze Lewis or Sewell out of a team that has just won the minor premiership.

Definitely. The move worked out great for both parties - on team value Stratton is more important to us than JPK would be RIGHT NOW. It also seems to have given Kennedy the kick up the backside he needed to knuckle down and show what he's capable of.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

The only reason I wished we'd never traded him is because of all the GARBAGE we have to listen to every time we play sydney. People!!!! HE'S GONE!!! Please ... shut up about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've got a flag to win.

 

[Brown Blood]

JK3 has stated on many occasions that his confidence was shot at Hawthorn and it took 6 months into his first season at Sydney to feel like he belonged. This is the area I hope our club has improved. With guys like Cheney/Schneider/Wanganeen on the cusp of selection, I hope they are all being developed and challenged to play a part in 2013. I am sure they will be.

Never seen this - show a quote where he said it!

Not that I think you are making it up but................

 

[J0NNY B]

Never seen this - show a quote where he said it!

Not that I think you are making it up but................

Not sure I can but will see what the SEN archives have. I have heard JK3 talk about it and I have heard Roos talk about it. Sydney had to work on his self belief/confidence.
JK3's comment was about taking a bit of time to feel like he belonged in the AFL system. Roos' comment was about building his confidence.

 

[J0NNY B]

The only reason I wished we'd never traded him is because of all the GARBAGE we have to listen to every time we play sydney. People!!!! HE'S GONE!!! Please ... shut up about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've got a flag to win.

I have not read a lot of threads lately on this board so this may have already come up - Finey on SEN ripped into a Big Footy user Adelaide Hawk the other night......

 

[markr]

we were lucky enough to pickup both Stratton and Suckling who have become very good players.

It's worth pointing out that while we upgraded Suckling from the rookie list with one of the picks we got from that deal, you can use any pick at all for that as QuietB said. If we hadn't done the trade we would have just used our next pick down the list. So we only got Grimley and Stratton for that trade. Not a comment on if that is good or not, but Suckling doesn't enter in to it.

 

[Brown Blood]

Not sure I can but will see what the SEN archives have. I have heard JK3 talk about it and I have heard Roos talk about it. Sydney had to work on his self belief/confidence.
JK3's comment was about taking a bit of time to feel like he belonged in the AFL system. Roos' comment was about building his confidence.

But you said he said his confidence was completely shot at Hawthorn...

now you are saying something different!

Whatever - if he said anything like this it would be reported!

Not that I think you are making it up but................