Judd- Super Player- Terrible Captain

[Big Kris]

I'm sure I will receive lots of interesting feedback though this has been playing on my mind of late so thought I would throw it out there.

Chris Judd is a legend of the game, could easily be a multiple brownlow winner and is probably the best clearance player I have ever seen.

However, what makes a captain a captain? Juddy was in charge of a West Coast team that absolutely self destructed, with massive cultural and behavioural issues. Juddy could not control these issues and packed his bag and left. Is that captain material? What happened to the captain going down with the ship?

The Blues saw captain material in him and gave him the job immediately along with the biggest money in history. Since then, Carlton players have been having punch ups at training, have failed to turn up to training on time and well lets just say they have a good time at the Brownlow forcing the club to trade aguably the best forward in the game. Again, where does the captain assume some responsibility for the players beneath him? Where does leadership come into it? Or is 30 touches a game enough to earn you the captaincy?

I have always expected more of leadership than individual brilliance....what do you think?

 

[drummoyne]

Juddy being a premiership captain would tend to make you look a little silly here..

Judd would have been involved with getting rid of the 'bad egg' Fevola, has seen that he can no longer be trusted and had to be disposed of. Pretty big call but the right call by Juddy and co. I think..

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

If he's a terrible captain then the AFL is the sport with the worst player leadership in the world.

 

[Big Kris]

Isn't there more to leadership than winning premierships?

And why did Judd not provide enough influence to prevent events getting to what they have? Offloading Fev is a reactive rather than proactive leadership response.

 

[Zvim]

Judd didn't want to be captain of the Eagles, they just appointed the only guy not flatlining.

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

Judd is a bad captain. People just seem to look past it due to his on-field skills.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

The old days of the captain has passed by.

No longer is the captain responsible for rallying the troops - that is the psychologist.

A captain is the face of the club - does he media, tosses the coin and sets the example - but they are rarely the sort to give a young rookie a clip behind the ear if they get out of line

The days of Mrs Madden dropping a young Mark Harvey back home to his mum are long gone.

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

I agree that he is a bad captain.

 

[wavefall21]

Hang on, just to confirm i'm hearing right? you're saying that Judd is directly responsible for the Cloke and O'Hailpin incident, the 3 players turning up late and Fev's behaviour on Brownlow night? Don't for one second think I'm bias and have my bias hat on here, cos I'm far from bias and realistic as it comes, but you're kidding aren't ya? These are grown up blokes who need to be responsible for their own actions, so your saying that Judd needs to baby these guys so as to not punch up at training, turn up late to recovery and behave responsibly at award functions

Mate I respect you're opinion but you're well and truly off the money imo, if Juddy doesn't lead by example on field then I'll go he, and I'm sure there are things off field that we don't know notice or realize that contributes to the development of the young players, singling out incidents which are a result of poor responsibility on the players behalf doesn't make sense

 

[Big Kris]

So what your saying mate is that leaders are not responsible for the actions of their subordinates? Why do we bother appointing a captain at all then, just a coin tosser??

A captain in my opinion does have responsibiliy for the behaviour of his team on and off the field and should provide some influence and direction, something which Judd has not done.

 

[Dump Truck]

Gotta agree with the OP on this one. While I dont believe he was personally responsible for what happened between the players and fev on brownlow night, he certainly could have done better to prevent it.

You look at someone like Tom Harley or Johnathon Brown. Both have made their clubs respectable on and off the field while also commanding respect. Harley wouldnt be even considered in the top 5 or maybe 10 of his team! (mind you thats not to lack of skill or anything, its just a bloody good top 5/10!)

 

[King Elvis]

Juddy being a premiership captain would tend to make you look a little silly here..

Judd would have been involved with getting rid of the 'bad egg' Fevola, has seen that he can no longer be trusted and had to be disposed of. Pretty big call but the right call by Juddy and co. I think..

Cousins was still the Captain, let's be honest.

Judd is a gun player, but he seems to be too introverted to be a gun Captain - he reminds me a lot of Kane Cornes; great player, works his arse off, highly professional - but a Vice Captain more than a Captain.

 

[invinciBlues]

Onfield he's a great Captain and worthy of the responsibility. Off field . . .well, I don't expect a club's captain to hold their team mates hands off the field.

The shit that happened at WC and with us at the Brownlow, I don't think they can be attributed to a captain. At some point, people are going to have to realise the other team mates are adults and have to be accountable for their own actions off the field.

 

[Rioli magic]

Judd should probably be a vice captain, his on field leadership is fantastic but off the field he doesn't seem to add anything. He basically fell into his 2 captainacy positions. First at West Coast when Cousin's started losing the plot and then when he arrived at Carlton they were a rabble who'd just delisted their captain Witnall.

 

[jonoman89]

On-field his leadership is fantastic. Sets an example and talks to his teammates about everything.

Off field he is definitely not "terrible". In his 2 years at the club he has helped drag the club from 15th to 7th. He isn't responsible for what grown men do, that's their choice. All he can do is help instill the right culture at the club, and by all reports he is doing that.

Fevola was a bad egg long before Judd arived, he could do nothing. And for all of those suggesting he didn't do enough on Brownlow night, it was reported in the paper that Judd and Murphy did try and get Fevola to leave only for Fevola to run off and make a further idiot of himself. Murphy supposedly was punched in the gob for it.

So it's completely Judd's responsibility to remove Fev? No one from Carlton could have prevented what Fev did that night. Nor anyone else.

And i trust Ratts a lot more in saying Judd had nothing to do with the trade than what the keyboard heros on BF say. It would be completely un-Judd like to involve himself in a matter he knows he has no business in.

 

[John 2505]

Hey Big Chris typical Hawthorn Supporter always criticizing the other teams I suppose you are just following your President and sticking you nose into everyones business. Why don't you look at your own captain, Can he control Buddy ?? I do not think so. I know that Juddy tried to get Fevola to leave the Brownloaw but you try getting a 110kg monster to listen to you when he is absolutely poll axed. Judd leads by example on and off the field and every single player at Carlton has his respect, The only player that did not respect him was Fevola as he was jealous of Juddys status. I love to see the chemsitry between Brown and Fev. Really I do not know how long it will take for Brown and fev to fall out of love.

 

[Blues_Man]

Gotta agree with the OP on this one. While I dont believe he was personally responsible for what happened between the players and fev on brownlow night, he certainly could have done better to prevent it.

You look at someone like Tom Harley or Johnathon Brown. Both have made their clubs respectable on and off the field while also commanding respect. Harley wouldnt be even considered in the top 5 or maybe 10 of his team! (mind you thats not to lack of skill or anything, its just a bloody good top 5/10!)

Stupid reply to a moronic thread

So tell me what captain has stopped all his teammates from getting into strife off ..and to even on field ...Barry Hall could not be controlled on the field ..is that Brett Kirks fault ?

Lance Franklin and another couple of Hawks players have played up on and off field ..is that their captains fault ?

Johnson from the cats has numerous off field discretions ..is that the captains fault ?

Hurley and Lovett plus Lovett Murray have all had off field problems ..is that the result of them having a poor captain ?

Every team has players with on and off field problems ..if you go by the moronic OP's assertions then there is not one decent captain in the AFL .

Is it still school holidays ? because this thread is not only childish ..it's just plain stupid.

A captain should lead by example on the field..he's not the players mother and father..nor is he their boss.

 

[wavefall21]

So what your saying mate is that leaders are not responsible for the actions of their subordinates? Why do we bother appointing a captain at all then, just a coin tosser??

A captain in my opinion does have responsibiliy for the behaviour of his team on and off the field and should provide some influence and direction, something which Judd has not done.

Of course a captain should lead by example on and off field, but I just don't understand why your attributing poor, immature decisions by players at the club to the captain......Ok, so when Lance Franklin supposedly glassed a Pies player last year at CQ, when Brent Renouf was caught for drunken behaviour in public, when Simon Taylor continually knees players in the head and do silly things off the ball, etc, based on what you're saying that tells me that Sam Mitchell is a poor captain

 

[Big Kris]

Hey Big Chris typical Hawthorn Supporter always criticizing the other teams I suppose you are just following your President and sticking you nose into everyones business. Why don't you look at your own captain, Can he control Buddy ?? I do not think so. I know that Juddy tried to get Fevola to leave the Brownloaw but you try getting a 110kg monster to listen to you when he is absolutely poll axed. Judd leads by example on and off the field and every single player at Carlton has his respect, The only player that did not respect him was Fevola as he was jealous of Juddys status. I love to see the chemsitry between Brown and Fev. Really I do not know how long it will take for Brown and fev to fall out of love.

Hey John,

Isn't this an AFL discussion forum, so the point would be to discuss all things AFL. If the Carlton players respected the club and captain why are their so many off field problems...ie punch ons at training, failing to turn up on time...Fev is just one example!

And yes I do expect Sam Mitchell to have an influence over Buddy's behaviour and from all reports he is doing just that.

 

[anti_]

he was sacked from west coast for that very reason, a very poor leader.

 

[Corrosion]

Stupid reply to a moronic thread

So tell me what captain has stopped all his teammates from getting into strife off ..and to even on field ...Barry Hall could not be controlled on the field ..is that Brett Kirks fault ?

Lance Franklin and another couple of Hawks players have played up on and off field ..is that their captains fault ?

Johnson from the cats has numerous off field discretions ..is that the captains fault ?

Hurley and Lovett plus Lovett Murray have all had off field problems ..is that the result of them having a poor captain ?

Every team has players with on and off field problems ..if you go by the moronic OP's assertions then there is not one decent captain in the AFL .

Is it still school holidays ? because this thread is not only childish ..it's just plain stupid.

A captain should lead by example on the field..he's not the players mother and father..nor is he their boss.

THIS.

According to the great logic of Big Kris.........Each captain of each club is a 'terrible captain'. End thread.

 

[deadfish]

I agree, hes a reluctant captain, thats never a good sign.

 

[budge11]

I don't understand how people outside clubs can rate captains or their ability to lead the team. 90% of their job is done behind closed doors, how can anyone outside the club have a clue?

 

[jonoman89]

he was sacked from west coast for that very reason, a very poor leader.

 

[John 2505]

Hey anti just before I reply to Big Kris, actually you might like to rethink what you said about Judd being sacked. I think if you take time to do some research you will quickly find that Judd sacked your club. Did the penny drop he left the eagles while still captain. Kris how can you actually say that Sam Mitchell has controlled buddy. I am thinking of a old base ball saying 3 strikes and your out. Buddy like Fev are amazing players but its their uncontrollable personality that makes them that good. You start trying to rein them in and they will fall back to the rest of the pack. They have to be themselves. Judd is a premiership captain Norm Smith and Brownlow medalist. Little Sam has a long way to go to catch Judd or be in a position to control Buddy. Yes it is a football forum and those that undestand football can appreciate Judd's qualities on and off the field. A true captain