Just when we thought they were gone, does Ben Jacobs proove that we need taggers?

[STeeLhawk]

One approach I do like is when a coach uses a young mid as a tagger; no better way to get them to learn off of the competition's best than to see what they're doing right. Al Clarkson's done it with players like Liam Shiels and Will Langford with reasonable success.

 

[PTizzle]

The 'run-with' player seems to have taken over taggers but there's still room for a pure negating player if the opposition is right. If someone is susceptible to a tag but very damaging then it's a no brainer. Don't blame any coaches who do it.

There's always a worry of being exposed if the players don't provide any hurt or momentum the other way though. Bernie Vince was fantastic at slowing down key players while providing drive for the Dees earlier in the year. Jacobs kept Shuey's numbers low tonight but he still booted 2 goals in a pretty low scoring affair while doing next to nothing with the ball himself. Jacobs has been a great lockdown player recently but not a great night for this thread.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

His direct opponent had 11 touches and was well below his usual standards. Don't be an idiot.

Indeed - what did Jacobs provide?

Diddly squat - his best hope is to square a contest

Below shuey's normal standard is still better than Jacobs

Targets are decent if like Kornes, Ling they can actually win the ball

Otherwise all teams hope for is that their shit player can make others equally as shit

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Indeed - what did Jacobs provide?

Diddly squat - his best hope is to square a contest

Below shuey's normal standard is still better than Jacobs

Targets are decent if like Kornes, Ling they can actually win the ball

Otherwise all teams hope for is that their shit player can make others equally as shit

If your tagger is your 20th or 21st best player (as Jacobs is) and he is breaking even with the opposition's most damaging midfielder, then I can't see how that isn't a massive win. Your argument is like saying there's no point me taking your queen in a chess match if you take one of my pawns back.

Aside from Shuey's second goal, which he would have kicked even if we had someone else playing instead of Jacobs, he was well beaten tonight. As one of your most important players, that's clearly a positive for us.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

If your tagger is your 20th or 21st best player (as Jacobs is) and he is breaking even with the opposition's most damaging midfielder, then I can't see how that isn't a massive win. Your argument is like saying there's no point me taking your queen in a chess match if you take one of my pawns back.

Aside from Shuey's second goal, which he would have kicked even if we had someone else playing instead of Jacobs, he was well beaten tonight. As one of your most important players, that's clearly a positive for us.

So now your argument is "relative performance", not actual performance

A bit like a McGrath half century is relatively better than a Waugh century

Jacobs is a bum sniffer, perpetually second to the ball and a liability when North wins the ball

There's a reason that most of the best teams have gone away from tagging - because they are a negative net effect To team performance if they can't win the ball

 

[Thewlis Dish]

So now your argument is "relative performance", not actual performance

A bit like a McGrath half century is relatively better than a Waugh century

Jacobs is a bum sniffer, perpetually second to the ball and a liability when North wins the ball

There's a reason that most of the best teams have gone away from tagging - because they are a negative net effect To team performance if they can't win the ball

My argument is that a tagger is valuable if he always beats his opponent, which Jacobs invariably does. Then you have two guys not having a big impact offensively, but one is a gun midfielder and the other isn't. Which do you think will negatively impact his team more? It's not like we have a gun midfielder sitting in the reserves who has lost his spot, so I'd rather have the likes of Hannebery, Rockliff, Shiel, Shuey and Fyfe not impacting the game against us.

It's a valid argument if you have a tagger who doesn't offer a lot offensively, but also only beats his direct opponent 50-60% of the time, because then you are effectively a player down. But this isn't the case with Jacobs, who has completely shut down a large number of influential midfielders this season.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

My argument is that a tagger is valuable if he always beats his opponent, which Jacobs invariably does. Then you have two guys not having a big impact offensively, but one is a gun midfielder and the other isn't. Which do you think will negatively impact his team more?

It's a valid argument if you have a tagger who doesn't offer a lot offensively, but also only beats his direct opponent 50-60% of the time, because then you are effectively a player down. But this isn't the case with Jacobs, who has completely shut down a large number of influential midfielders this season.

No.... Jacobs doesn't beat his opponent, that would require actual performance to exceed that of his opponent

Otherwise north beat west coast tonight...

Perhaps his relative performance to his limited skill set handicapped against a guy who can actually play football

But on actual performance I doubt he's beaten an opponent all year

But please, let's be clear he didn't beat shuey. - he limited shuey' positive influence whilst providing close to zero himself

 

[Thewlis Dish]

No.... Jacobs doesn't beat his opponent, that would require actual performance to exceed that of his opponent

Otherwise north beat west coast tonight...

Perhaps his relative performance to his limited skill set handicapped against a guy who can actually play football

But on actual performance I doubt he's beaten an opponent all year

But please, let's be clear he didn't beat shuey. - he limited shuey' positive influence whilst providing close to zero himself

Which goes back to my queen vs pawn argument.

You are effectively saying that Jacobs hasn't beaten Cotchin or Shuey etc because they have had the same statistical output, but ignoring the fact that a side getting 10 touches from one of its star playmakers hurts them more than the opposition getting 10 touches from its tagger.

 

[CrazyQ]

Wow.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Absolute bum sniffer - North guarantee a loss every time he tags. Even when he went to Cotchin he only squared the contest

Tonight his direct opponent kicked 2 goals while he provided zero positive momentum

Quite comfortably one of the dumbest posts I've read.

North won 2 finals with Jacobs making the oppositions best midfielder ineffective - he didn't square the contest v Cotchin, you're thinking about it wrong. Say Cotchin isn't tagged, and Jacobs or some other random plays as an attacking midfielder. Cotchin gets 25-30 disposals and a goal, Jacobs gets 15 disposals. So if both get 9 disposals, did Jacobs only square the contest? Of course ****ing not.

And obviously North don't guarantee a loss everytime he tags, I actually can't understand how you could be so dense as to post that. Do you even football? He's been tagging since about midway through the season and North are about 10-3 in that time...

 

[SterlingArcher]

Indeed - what did Jacobs provide?

Diddly squat - his best hope is to square a contest

Below shuey's normal standard is still better than Jacobs

Targets are decent if like Kornes, Ling they can actually win the ball

Otherwise all teams hope for is that their shit player can make others equally as shit

That is literally the point of a tagger.

You take the oppositions gun and make them shit.

Hurr ****ing durr if you keep Ablett to 15 disposals, you have got a huge advantage, because instead of Ablett being Gary ****ing Ablett he's the equal of Ben Jacobs.

Are you actually that thick?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Quite comfortably one of the dumbest posts I've read.

North won 2 finals with Jacobs making the oppositions best midfielder ineffective - he didn't square the contest v Cotchin, you're thinking about it wrong. Say Cotchin isn't tagged, and Jacobs or some other random plays as an attacking midfielder. Cotchin gets 25-30 disposals and a goal, Jacobs gets 15 disposals. So if both get 9 disposals, did Jacobs only square the contest? Of course ******* not.

And obviously North don't guarantee a loss everytime he tags, I actually can't understand how you could be so dense as to post that. Do you even football? He's been tagging since about midway through the season and North are about 10-3 in that time...

So relative performance... Not actual performance.

North guarantees a loss in their midfield (or at best a draw) every time he plays

I'm not thinking about it wrong, I'm thinking about it the way both clubs who are playing in the GF think about it

Neither tag, neither do most of the finalists

Tagging works if your bloke can actually win the footy

Jacobs can't, he's a liability when North have the ball

If he could push off his man and get dangerous.... Then maybe he might beat his opponent

Right now his best hope is drawing even

 

[The Falcon Strike]

That is literally the point of a tagger.

You take the oppositions gun and make them shit.

Hurr ******* durr if you keep Ablett to 15 disposals, you have got a huge advantage, because instead of Ablett being Gary ******* Ablett he's the equal of Ben Jacobs.

Are you actually that thick?

Obviously... So thick that the two grand final coaches agree with me

We had a best and fairest tagger, he can't get a game for us

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Shuey had 11 touches, Jacobs had 7.

Shuey was well held except for the goal in the third. He was gifted his other goal and Jacobs should have kicked one in the last when he was tripped - take away those two shocking decisions and he breaks even with one of West Coast's best midfielders... just the output is lower than a match-up like Priddis and Swallow (26/25).

Over time he'll build bigger numbers. Guys like Anthony Stevens, Adam Simpson and Brady Rawlings started as taggers and ended up being accumulators. Jacobs was like that in under-age footy so could have a similar development curve.

Discredited statement by saying he was gifted that first goal when he deserved another at the hands of Ziebell with his high fend off.

The trip was above the knee. So take that into account and...




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[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Just because you repeat something over and over does not make it so. Shuey's goal in the 2nd was not gifted, Dal Santo made contact with Shuey's head with his chest, it's high contact every day of the week, it doesn't need to be a hand on the neck to count.

 

[markr]

That Shuey free was the worst free kick I remember seeing paid this year. Put his head down and ran into a player trying to get out of his way.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

The days of when the taggwrs actually BEAT the star mid is definitely gone.

Will be a long time until we see another Cornes or Ling.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

The trip was above the knee. So take that into account and...

Jacobs has two legs. One was taken out at the knee, one at the ankle.

 

[wce4premiership]

Sorry but he was lucky not to give away more free kicks, was holding him a long time before he got close to holding the ball. Umpires absolutely put the whistle away yesterday with holding the man / in the back.

 

[swiftdog]

So relative performance... Not actual performance.

North guarantees a loss in their midfield (or at best a draw) every time he plays

I'm not thinking about it wrong, I'm thinking about it the way both clubs who are playing in the GF think about it

Neither tag, neither do most of the finalists

Tagging works if your bloke can actually win the footy

Jacobs can't, he's a liability when North have the ball

If he could push off his man and get dangerous.... Then maybe he might beat his opponent

Right now his best hope is drawing even

It's not about who "wins" the one-on-one contest but which midfield wins the contest overall. Limiting a star midfielders output with a tagger (who isn't expected to provide a great output)helps win the overall contest. The sum of the parts is what matters.

 

[Jesslc]

Absolute bum sniffer - North guarantee a loss every time he tags. Even when he went to Cotchin he only squared the contest

Tonight his direct opponent kicked 2 goals while he provided zero positive momentum

Lol atleast your not biased. For starters, jacobs stopped one of the goals before nick dal santo gave away that "free kick". Id mark shuey down as 11 touches and a goal..... is that a good game for him?

 

[Jesslc]

So now your argument is "relative performance", not actual performance

A bit like a McGrath half century is relatively better than a Waugh century

Jacobs is a bum sniffer, perpetually second to the ball and a liability when North wins the ball

There's a reason that most of the best teams have gone away from tagging - because they are a negative net effect To team performance if they can't win the ball

Hahaha you literally know nothing about football. Its so frustrating to read...

 

[Jesslc]

Quite comfortably one of the dumbest posts I've read.

North won 2 finals with Jacobs making the oppositions best midfielder ineffective - he didn't square the contest v Cotchin, you're thinking about it wrong. Say Cotchin isn't tagged, and Jacobs or some other random plays as an attacking midfielder. Cotchin gets 25-30 disposals and a goal, Jacobs gets 15 disposals. So if both get 9 disposals, did Jacobs only square the contest? Of course ******* not.

And obviously North don't guarantee a loss everytime he tags, I actually can't understand how you could be so dense as to post that. Do you even football? He's been tagging since about midway through the season and North are about 10-3 in that time...

You are spot on. I cant believe how little almost every Eagles poster on here knows about football..... its shocking. Its like they started watching a week ago

 

[sprockets]

Weren't we told all week that we lost the game against North because Cotchin is a s**t captain? Nothing to do with Jacobs. Apparently.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Lol atleast your not biased. For starters, jacobs stopped one of the goals before nick dal santo gave away that "free kick". Id mark shuey down as 11 touches and a goal..... is that a good game for him?

So is that "pretend" outcomes or real outcomes

I give Jacobs 12 goals - I mean it didn't happen, but we just talk about pretend outcomes right?

I'll pretend north kicked 13 and are in the GF