Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2013 phantom draft

[JR95]

Yeah, very fair assessment. I'd be looking at Sheed with our first pick and trying to get our hands on another pick in the 10-20 range; would hopefully grab someone like Ben Lennon. I'd be looking for some mature recruits with late picks (Willie Wheeler, Justin Hardy) as well.

Oh for sure. Mature age players are starting to become a very common practice these days and it's excellent to see. I'd be looking for defenders if I were the Bulldogs. I think they are in good hands with their recruiting staff, they were very good last year.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Oh for sure. Mature age players are starting to become a very common practice these days and it's excellent to see. I'd be looking for defenders if I were the Bulldogs. I think they are in good hands with their recruiting staff, they were very good last year.

Key defenders or? Roughead's going to become a very good KPD in my opinion, while Young is coming along nicely. We've got Talia running around in the twos who looks set to take Morris' role in the future, but his kicking is still atrocious. I wouldn't mind another KPD but I don't think I'd use an early pick on one.
We desperately need a small shut-down defender; Picken just doesn't really cut it as he's too slow. Motlop ran over the top of him last night. They rarely come with top picks though.
As for running half-backs I feel like we're pretty well covered there with Macrae, Johannisen, Cooney, Pearce etc all capable of playing the role. Would look for more outside midfielders than anything there; we can just rotate them through half back.

 

[JR95]

Key defenders or? Roughead's going to become a very good KPD in my opinion, while Young is coming along nicely. We've got Talia running around in the twos who looks set to take Morris' role in the future, but his kicking is still atrocious. I wouldn't mind another KPD but I don't think I'd use an early pick on one.
We desperately need a small shut-down defender; Picken just doesn't really cut it as he's too slow. Motlop ran over the top of him last night. They rarely come with top picks though.
As for running half-backs I feel like we're pretty well covered there with Macrae, Johannisen, Cooney, Pearce etc all capable of playing the role. Would look for more outside midfielders than anything there; we can just rotate them through half back.

Yeah I'm not a big fan of Roughead. Doesn't show a lot of promise for me but you would know more being a Doggies fan and would know more about him and your list. Just take the best available players at your picks in the places you need improvement and you'll be fine.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Yeah I'm not a big fan of Roughead. Doesn't show a lot of promise for me but you would know more being a Doggies fan and would know more about him and your list. Just take the best available players at your picks in the places you need improvement and you'll be fine.

Fair enough mate, but remember that last night was only the sixth (I think...definitely less than 10th) game as a key defender and this has been the first pre-season he's had as a defender. He's performed really well the first four rounds and Matthew Scarlett's on record as saying that he could become one of the premier key position defenders in the AFL as soon as this year. He hasn't shown anything extraordinary yet but we have pretty high hopes for him.

Yep, that's the philosophy I'm hoping we take too. None of these crappy prospective "Christian Howard" picks. We've been pretty good since Clayton left though.

 

[Knightmare]

And KM, who's going to be this years Jackson macrae and come from nowhere to be a top 10 pick?

It's something we may not know till about a month out from the draft and at the earliest during the u18 champs if indeed there is another riser of this type.

How do you view Jay Canterbury from Oakleigh? Haven't really seen a lot but have heard that some rate him...
Also Brett Borland is another guy that probably won't get drafted but is solid. How do you view these guys KM?

Canterbury has had a quiet start to the season. Will want to make some more noise as the season progresses.

Borland is a good tac cup performer but being a very small player he'll need to dominate as Hrovat did last year to get considered.

I don't rate Kelly as high as some others seem to. Skills and endurance are good attributes but he's not all that productive in his games.

I've found his production mostly good, my thing with Kelly that has dropped him down my rankings was his finals series last year. He just didn't do enough to influence the game and really came up short when he was in that mix for a minidraft selection.

There are just some other guys who seem to do more to influence games: Boyd/Sheed/Dunstan/Aish/Lennon/Billings.

 

[Chris25]

Scharenberg's kicking is still a bit suspect, for mine.

Not so sure where this has come from?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Not so sure where this has come from?

Admittedly I haven't seen as much as you would have Chris but with the stuff I've seen he often doesn't hit the best target. Perhaps it's vision more than kicking ability, I just haven't been all that impressed with his kicking. Will no doubt see more of him as the year goes on though and form a better opinion.

 

[wackywayne23]

What's everyone's thoughts on the Bendigo Pioneers prospects this year? I know there's the likes of miller and manganese but are there any outside chances? Anyway I don't think Miller is all he is shaped up to be!

 

[deliciouss]

What's everyone's thoughts on the Bendigo Pioneers prospects this year? I know there's the likes of miller and manganese but are there any outside chances? Anyway I don't think Miller is all he is shaped up to be!

Sam Heavyside, Best and fairest winner from two seasons ago and now playing as a 19 year old played his first game back for almost a season after a foot injury, best on for Bendigo against Knights

 

[wackywayne23]

Sam Heavyside, Best and fairest winner from two seasons ago and now playing as a 19 year old played his first game back for almost a season after a foot injury, best on for Bendigo against Knights

What are thoughts on Mangan and Miller? Don't know a lot about this one but have heard the likes of poyser and Payne making headways in debut year for pioneers?

 

[Knightmare]

What's everyone's thoughts on the Bendigo Pioneers prospects this year? I know there's the likes of miller and manganese but are there any outside chances? Anyway I don't think Miller is all he is shaped up to be!

Isaiah Miller, Liam Byrne, Jordan Mangan, Jacob Chisari then Harry O'Meara and Sam Heavyside despite missing out last year are all draft chances and the ones I'm looking out for from Bendigo at this stage.

 

[wackywayne23]

Isaiah Miller, Liam Byrne, Jordan Mangan, Jacob Chisari then Harry O'Meara and Sam Heavyside despite missing out last year are all draft chances and the ones I'm looking out for from Bendigo at this stage.

Thanks for the info! Will there chances be effected due to poor results from the side?

 

[Knightmare]

Thanks for the info! Will there chances be effected due to poor results from the side?

Playing in a poor team might mean less scouts go along to the games and there may be less of a chance to rise up the draft order with some strong, late finals performances because that opportunity may not be there.

But in saying that it won't stop a guy from being drafted. Clubs have stats and footage of all games and they draft for the best player they can get, regardless of the success achieved by the club they play for. So these boys should be fine and in the mix to get drafted if they perform in the games they are involved in.

 

[footyfan97]

Who do you think are the legitimate draft chances from the stingrays km?

 

[Knightmare]

Who do you think are the legitimate draft chances from the stingrays km?

Billy Hartung, Clayton McCarthy, Nathan Gardiner, Agape Patolo, Nathan Foote, Jordan Bastinac, Ryan Marks-Logan are all players I'm looking out for and may be in the mix. No locks at this stage with none of these top end talents but a Hartung or McCarthy if they have strong seasons could push into the second round.

 

[JR95]

Billy Hartung, Clayton McCarthy, Nathan Gardiner, Agape Patolo, Nathan Foote, Jordan Bastinac, Ryan Marks-Logan are all players I'm looking out for and may be in the mix. No locks at this stage with none of these top end talents but a Hartung or McCarthy if they have strong seasons could push into the second round.

Jordan related to Ryan?

 

[Knightmare]

Jordan related to Ryan?

Brothers.

 

[JR95]

Brothers.

Not as highly rated as Ryan was?

 

[doggies ftw]

Yeah, very fair assessment. I'd be looking at Sheed with our first pick and trying to get our hands on another pick in the 10-20 range; would hopefully grab someone like Ben Lennon. I'd be looking for some mature recruits with late picks (Willie Wheeler, Justin Hardy) as well.

Yeah that would be great, I'd love Sheed and Lennon! That write up of Sheed just reminds me so much of Macrae.

I really like Dunstan too and as you said it would not read well taking another inside mid, but what is his pace like? If it is in the above average area I wouldn't be fussed at all with him, I don't think having too many inside mids is a problem but having too many one dimensional/similar inside mids could be a problem.

But if Dunstan has good pace then he could be very useful, I like the fact that he will fit in with the tough game plan while also providing really good skills, which is probably more useful than an only outside mid who can't win his own ball in our gameplan.

 

[Knightmare]

Not as highly rated as Ryan was?

Still has some ability but unlike Ryan he didn't have that benefit of being best friends with Tom Scully and training with him. Those two would kill eachother in training and on the track to become endurance beasts. Jordan still has talent but he's more a late round/rookie draft type prospect.

 

[Knightmare]

Yeah that would be great, I'd love Sheed and Lennon! That write up of Sheed just reminds me so much of Macrae.

I really like Dunstan too and as you said it would not read well taking another inside mid, but what is his pace like? If it is in the above average area I wouldn't be fussed at all with him, I don't think having too many inside mids is a problem but having too many one dimensional/similar inside mids could be a problem.

But if Dunstan has good pace then he could be very useful, I like the fact that he will fit in with the tough game plan while also providing really good skills, which is probably more useful than an only outside mid who can't win his own ball in our gameplan.

Sheed is possibly a touch more advanced than Macrae with Macrae more someone who has developed in a hurry. Sheed has better skills and at this point a more established inside game so it's going to be interesting to see just how good he can become.

Dunstan is an ok athlete but it's not a selling point. He can also play forward and be damaging so I wouldn't call him one dimensional but eventually you'd want him playing more midfield.

 

[JR95]

Still has some ability but unlike Ryan he didn't have that benefit of being best friends with Tom Scully and training with him. Those two would kill eachother in training and on the track to become endurance beasts. Jordan still has talent but he's more a late round/rookie draft type prospect.

Oh right, gotcha. Thanks KM.

 

[doggies ftw]

Sheed is possibly a touch more advanced than Macrae with Macrae more someone who has developed in a hurry. Sheed has better skills and at this point a more established inside game so it's going to be interesting to see just how good he can become.

Dunstan is an ok athlete but it's not a selling point. He can also play forward and be damaging so I wouldn't call him one dimensional but eventually you'd want him playing more midfield.

Thanks, yeah Sheed does look the goods so far, just the bit about how he has more time than anyone else and relies more on good positioning and smarts than overall pace or endurance reminds me of Macrae.

Yeah Dunstan doesn't sound bad at all but probably not a great fit for our needs, I'd say if we go inside mid it would have to be more of an explosive inside mid, pretty much what I want Stringer to be if he doesn't stay in the forward line.

 

[Chris25]

When I say persue estalibhsed players, I'm talking trade nothing more than a 3rd round selection and preferrably look at these as late draft/free agents. Any guy nearing retirement age, veterans who are unwanted or guys who have just retired are the guys I'd be going after if they show they could from a leadership perspective be an asset, regardless of how passed their best they are.

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I don't agree with this for Melbourne. It worked for GWS, because they didn't have a history or a culture. So experienced players were needed to lead from the front. Melbourne have a history, what they need is to keep a group of players together for 5-10 years who can get them back to where they were. It wont be a quick or easy road, but they'll be building something real. Bringing in random players for one year isn't going to accomplish that in my opinion, it will just mean a young player who could have been part of that group, wont have a spot.

I would follow the Port Adelaide model. They brought in the likes of Stevenson, Heath, Monfries and Hombsch - not the most well known group but strong bodies who can compete from Round 1, and more importantly players who could (and should) legitimately still be around in 5 years.

So, who could the targets be? Viv Michie from Fremantle would be one. Third round draft pick in 2010, but hasn't played a game due to injuries. WAFL form has been outstanding this year, and will debut at some stage this year. Is a strong clearance midfielder who can play outside, in the Paul Hasleby mould. Will get a lot more attention come the end of the season in my opinion. Could also try to tempt recent draftees coming out of contract back to Victoria - Sam Kerridge, Patrick Karnezis, Jed Lamb for example.

I just think they should embrace the youth, and trust them to get themselves out of this. And it will at least show the supporters they have a plan in place, as opposed to just trying to get through another year by bringing in a retiree for a season.

 

[Knightmare]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I don't agree with this for Melbourne. It worked for GWS, because they didn't have a history or a culture. So experienced players were needed to lead from the front. Melbourne have a history, what they need is to keep a group of players together for 5-10 years who can get them back to where they were. It wont be a quick or easy road, but they'll be building something real. Bringing in random players for one year isn't going to accomplish that in my opinion, it will just mean a young player who could have been part of that group, wont have a spot.

I would follow the Port Adelaide model. They brought in the likes of Stevenson, Heath, Monfries and Hombsch - not the most well known group but strong bodies who can compete from Round 1, and more importantly players who could (and should) legitimately still be around in 5 years.

So, who could the targets be? Viv Michie from Fremantle would be one. Third round draft pick in 2010, but hasn't played a game due to injuries. WAFL form has been outstanding this year, and will debut at some stage this year. Is a strong clearance midfielder who can play outside, in the Paul Hasleby mould. Will get a lot more attention come the end of the season in my opinion. Could also try to tempt recent draftees coming out of contract back to Victoria - Sam Kerridge, Patrick Karnezis, Jed Lamb for example.

I just think they should embrace the youth, and trust them to get themselves out of this. And it will at least show the supporters they have a plan in place, as opposed to just trying to get through another year by bringing in a retiree for a season.

I agree mostly with your line of thought.

You absolutely need to keep a list together for an extended period. It builds up the team chemistry so that you are predictable to the players around you and gives the players that opportunity to develop.

The list turnover Melbourne have completed these past 5 years has been unimaginable. Too many games worth of experience have been shredded and when that happens. Recovery is a long road away.

I also agree with the idea of trading for the relatively underappreciated talent where practical if it fits a team need and if the guy fits you system.

I would however still insist that quality veterans need to come into the team. Jack Grimes and Jack Trengove as captains are not enough. They need guys to learn off to help better them as players and leaders. It can't all just come from within the present playing group as I made clear in my previous post. Though that Jack Viney guy may help.