Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2013 phantom draft

[Chris25]

I would however still insist that quality veterans need to come into the team. Jack Grimes and Jack Trengove as captains are not enough. They need guys to learn off to help better them as players and leaders. It can't all just come from within the present playing group as I made clear in my previous post. Though that Jack Viney guy may help.

That leadership can come in different forms though. Coaches, mentors and past players getting down to help would all offer that. What they need is to make the rebuild a truly personal thing for the players. So I think they would benefit more from the young players taking on the responsibility. As opposed to say, bringing a Michael Doughty or Lindsay Gilbee out of retirement. It's going to be a long road regardless of how they do it. But I think they need to commit, and the signing of stop gaps would just confuse the whole situation.

But hey, everyone knows I'm all about the draft and young players. I'm no list manager.

 

[tazzawazza]

I think you might be right about the additional KPPs. Watch for Boyd early if available, perfect fit as that powerhouse key forward and a Cutler or Fort as a key defender could be looked at perhaps in the 2nd or 3rd round as an additional key defenders.

Macrae should with time prove to be that silky mid but more class can always be added. I'm slightly surprised that Ben Duscher was overlooked as a rookie for the WBD as he would add significant class but plenty of options in 2013.

Kennedy and Foster to my knowledge are eligable this season. Whether they get drafted unclear.

Cordy and Wallis being 2014 prospects I don't have a strong enough feel for yet but I expect both to be strong draft chances then.

@ KM

Is Elijah Edward's height currently 163 cm? Or was that just his height when Collingwood recruited him (so when he was 15)

Thanks

 

[Defacto]

will george hampson get a rookie list? has been excellent in a poor subi side

 

[thesource]

Doubt it.

Had discipline issues earlier in the season, not a good look.

 

[thesource]

Heard he was sent back to the Ammo's, or threatened. One of the two. Not a great look

 

[Defacto]

Heard he was sent back to the Ammo's, or threatened. One of the two. Not a great look

what the hell are you on about. i can assure you its bullshit. he had a knee injury in the offseason and took a while to come back. was playing with a crook knee the other week and still couldnt stop himself getting the pill against claremont in the wet. 30+ possessions last weekend against south

 

[thesource]

I'll take the word of those in the upper echelons at Subi on their merit.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's highly talented and good enough to go to the next level.

 

[GrandBlue]

Will Dayle Garlett ever be in your power rankings? Would like to know where he'd slot in among the new crop.

 

[thesource]

Knightmare

Where do you rate Jake Solomon, he's playing the ruck but moves like a midfielder and has a rare ability to carry the ball at speed not normal for a big man, he contests the ruck then hits the ground like a cat.

Kicking is also excellent for a bigman, huge tank and sells too much candy for a ruck but does it well.

Clearance machine, prototype mid going forward?

 

[tigs2010]

Sorry. Had a late night. Clearly.

I'd be looking at Sheed as that next guy. For mine he's in that conversation for the no.1 overall selection and possibly even a touch more talented than Aish.

Agreed

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

Zac Webster in terrific form this year in the TSL. I like where you have him on your list at this stage, could possibly climb a little higher if he keeps injury free and his form going.

 

[JR95]

Zac Webster in terrific form this year in the TSL. I like where you have him on your list at this stage, could possibly climb a little higher if he keeps injury free and his form going.

His brother Jimmy was drafted to St.Kilda and isn't as talented as Zac.

My best mate played with both of them and says that Zac is the far better footballer. Will get drafted for sure in my opinion.

 

[manny100]

That leadership can come in different forms though. Coaches, mentors and past players getting down to help would all offer that. What they need is to make the rebuild a truly personal thing for the players. So I think they would benefit more from the young players taking on the responsibility. As opposed to say, bringing a Michael Doughty or Lindsay Gilbee out of retirement. It's going to be a long road regardless of how they do it. But I think they need to commit, and the signing of stop gaps would just confuse the whole situation.

But hey, everyone knows I'm all about the draft and young players. I'm no list manager.

As a long suffering Demons member I can say we desperately need an immediate injection of a star mid who is a good trainer and mentor as well. The problem is that the stars do not not want to go to the club and will need encouragement. Scott Watters basically said (On the Couch last night) that letting Goddard go was for the good of the club as well as Goddard and financial was only part of it. They obviously recognised that what they could get via the compensation and subsequent dealing with GWS. Watters mentioned the players they got were Lees, Wright and Saunders(?).
Here is a completely fanciful scenario:
Demons offer D Thomas a truckload of money. Thomas is not keen to go to the demons.
Magpies chose not to get anywhere near the amount offered by the Demons and recommends he accept the higher offer.
Thomas then accepts the demons offer.
The Magpies also agree to trade a good quality (mid/flank/pocket) b/b+ player to the Demons for their first pick (say pick 2). This done to get Magpie support for the overall deal.
The Magpies manage sign a quality restricted Mid from another club - there is no lack of players wanting to sign!!.
Gains:
Magpies:
Pick 2 plus a mid first round compensation pick. A quality mid via a restricted signing. A chance depending on drafting
Lose:
A grade mid and b/b+ player.

Demons:
2 players who can have an immediate impact regarding onfield performance and player development. Release of pressure on Admin and Coaching staff!!
Lose pick 2 - no real problem as Hogan will be able top play next year and the Demons already have to many younger players on its list.

The Magpies agree to all this in order to have 3 first rounders (including a pick 2) and combined with last years 3 early picks have a chance to extend their time at or near the top for another 10 years or so. Geelong won a premiership after losing Ablett - whether they used the compensation wisely - time will tell - as will the Saints strategy in not matching Goddards offer.
As you can tell from the above ' fanciful' scenario it is really desperation time at the Dees!!!

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

His brother Jimmy was drafted to St.Kilda and isn't as talented as Zac.

My best mate played with both of them and says that Zac is the far better footballer. Will get drafted for sure in my opinion.

Looks like it at this stage. It is amazing how good he is for his age. Not many players his age can dominate the TSL as consistently as he does. Would have to agree with your comparison to his brother at this stage, but it is still early days and Jimmy has had a number of injuries.

 

[JR95]

Looks like it at this stage. It is amazing how good he is for his age. Not many players his age can dominate the TSL as consistently as he does. Would have to agree with your comparison to his brother at this stage, but it is still early days and Jimmy has had a number of injuries.

Yeah he can't catch a break that kid.

I agree with what you said about Zac. He is a super talent and is consistent which is going to bode well for him.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Yeah he can't catch a break that kid.

I agree with what you said about Zac. He is a super talent and is consistent which is going to bode well for him.

Jimmy Webster will be OK. He came into the system underweight and will need a few pre seasons to show his true worth and as you said he's had his injury concerns.

This clip shows the talent he possesses - Good speed, excellent skills (Sandy's coach said he would be the best kick on the entire St Kilda roster) and not a bad side step.

 

[JR95]

Jimmy Webster will be OK. He came into the system underweight and will need a few pre seasons to show his true worth and as you said he's had his injury concerns.

This clip shows the talent he possesses - Good speed, excellent skills (Sandy's coach said he would be the best kick on the entire St Kilda roster) and not a bad side step.

He is defiantely talented, will be interesting to.see Zac vs Jimmy one day if they both make it!

 

[Knightmare]

@ KM

Is Elijah Edward's height currently 163 cm? Or was that just his height when Collingwood recruited him (so when he was 15)

Thanks

Edwards most recently measured in at 165cm. So don't expect any growth come draft time given his lack of growth in recent years.

will george hampson get a rookie list? has been excellent in a poor subi side

Good story is young George Hampson. Has had his injury issues and despite that he keeps fighting back which is a credit to his character. Big time endurance athlete, good height and can do some damage.

If he continues to build on his strong form and continues his improvement I think he enters the mix. Clubs are willing to give state leaguers a go now and Hampson may well be one of those selected.

Will Dayle Garlett ever be in your power rankings? Would like to know where he'd slot in among the new crop.

On talent Garlett fits well inside my top 15 and is on that top 10 fringe.

Knightmare

Where do you rate Jake Solomon, he's playing the ruck but moves like a midfielder and has a rare ability to carry the ball at speed not normal for a big man, he contests the ruck then hits the ground like a cat.

Kicking is also excellent for a bigman, huge tank and sells too much candy for a ruck but does it well.

Clearance machine, prototype mid going forward?

Sub 2m ruckmen don't usually appeal unless they are absolute freak ruckmen. Solomon while he may have a better rounded game than most ruckmen just doesn't have that dominance to his game whether it be with his tap work or marking game to rate him super highly. Not inside my top 100 at this point, but in saying that I'll be saying the same about most ruckmen this year unless someone really breaks out in the latter half of the season.

As a long suffering Demons member I can say we desperately need an immediate injection of a star mid who is a good trainer and mentor as well. The problem is that the stars do not not want to go to the club and will need encouragement. Scott Watters basically said (On the Couch last night) that letting Goddard go was for the good of the club as well as Goddard and financial was only part of it. They obviously recognised that what they could get via the compensation and subsequent dealing with GWS. Watters mentioned the players they got were Lees, Wright and Saunders(?).
Here is a completely fanciful scenario:
Demons offer D Thomas a truckload of money. Thomas is not keen to go to the demons.
Magpies chose not to get anywhere near the amount offered by the Demons and recommends he accept the higher offer.
Thomas then accepts the demons offer.
The Magpies also agree to trade a good quality (mid/flank/pocket) b/b+ player to the Demons for their first pick (say pick 2). This done to get Magpie support for the overall deal.
The Magpies manage sign a quality restricted Mid from another club - there is no lack of players wanting to sign!!.
Gains:
Magpies:
Pick 2 plus a mid first round compensation pick. A quality mid via a restricted signing. A chance depending on drafting
Lose:
A grade mid and b/b+ player.

Demons:
2 players who can have an immediate impact regarding onfield performance and player development. Release of pressure on Admin and Coaching staff!!
Lose pick 2 - no real problem as Hogan will be able top play next year and the Demons already have to many younger players on its list.

The Magpies agree to all this in order to have 3 first rounders (including a pick 2) and combined with last years 3 early picks have a chance to extend their time at or near the top for another 10 years or so. Geelong won a premiership after losing Ablett - whether they used the compensation wisely - time will tell - as will the Saints strategy in not matching Goddards offer.
As you can tell from the above ' fanciful' scenario it is really desperation time at the Dees!!!

Unfortunately Collingwood are not Geelong. We aren't winning a premiership with Thomas at the moment so him leaving certainly doesn't make us better in the immediate.

Just with the way free agency works. If Collingwood lost Thomas to any club, they don't need to trade any assets to Collingwood. It's a free get for whichever club if Collingwood don't match. Additionally Collingwood if they put a bid in for another free agent, this likely results in Collingwood losing that compensation selection received for Thomas.

If Thomas accepted a free agent offer from Melbourne who may have the most money available he'd first no doubt feel out Collingwood in negotiations to ensure he doesn't wind up at Melbourne. He'd likely be smart enough to avoid this type of situation, though it's possible that Melbourne do go for this strategy.

If Collingwood did the trade it would be to a destination of Thomas' choice. My gut suggests this would be Geelong if he doesn't get the money at Collingwood/isn't satisfied.

If the Dees could work a trade for Thomas and Blair/Sinclair for pick 2 or Watts then it would be a big win. Bring in high character guys who work hard on the track from a successful program and can add to that current best 22. That's largely what Neeld and Melbourne will want.

 

[Defacto]

thanks for the response mate. great to see that if george does continue his form, that people wont just write him off and he will get a look in

 

[Ads734]

KM I know it is very early but do you know of any possible prospects for 2015

 

[Turbocat]

...
If Collingwood did the trade it would be to a destination of Thomas' choice. My gut suggests this would be Geelong if he doesn't get the money at Collingwood/isn't satisfied.
...

Thats an interesting gut feeling there Knightmare. Any reason for that feeling?

Not sure about that. You may be right if your thinking big dollar players retire , room in cap etc. But could we really offer , would we really offer more than the Pies would be willing to match? Radio tonight mention Blues and Dee's were into him. Two ex Pies coaches !!!

Back to the draft.
Who's the best kick in this draft. On the run , 70M from FB , setshots ..what ever. Al
Im probably thinking running defender more than anything else but for the moment who do you rate best?

 

[Knightmare]

KM I know it is very early but do you know of any possible prospects for 2015

Simply haven't seen the 2015 prospects compete yet so I'm not going to make any grand predictions at this point.

After the u16 champs I may if I can get to some games have some more of an idea of some of those likely top end prospects.

My focus is already broad enough looking at the AFL/VFL/SANFL/WAFL/TAC/u18s in detail so any further broadening of that focus would just delute my knowledge of those competitions I'm more focused in on.

 

[Knightmare]

Thats an interesting gut feeling there Knightmare. Any reason for that feeling?

Not sure about that. You may be right if your thinking big dollar players retire , room in cap etc. But could we really offer , would we really offer more than the Pies would be willing to match? Radio tonight mention Blues and Dee's were into him. Two ex Pies coaches !!!

Back to the draft.
Who's the best kick in this draft. On the run , 70M from FB , setshots ..what ever. Al
Im probably thinking running defender more than anything else but for the moment who do you rate best?

Thomas was a Geelong fan as a kid. He has in the past been in dialogue with a number of their players and from rumours coaches. Not specifically about contacts/ or anything to do with joining the club but rather just general friendships.

In addition to this Geelong is a winning club. No club these past 6/7 years has experienced greater success and with a number of veterans nearing the end of their careers I see it as an attractive place to go as a free agent. You've got the winning culture and great future winning chances with that young core group coming through as well as a chance for a pay rise if some salary cap space opens up. It looks from the distance an attractive free agent landing spot anyway.

Malthouse and Neeld both do have strong relationships with Thomas. Mick loved Dale more than any other player and Neeld understands his game very well also having been the Collingwood midfield coach during his best seasons (2010+2011) so you can bet both will make strong plays at him. If Geelong have that cash available to come close to matching Carlton/Melbourne and exceed the offer Collingwood put on the table for a fair stretch then I could see Thomas strongly considering Geelong and certainly favouring the Cats over Carlton/Melbourne despite his relationships with the respective coaches.

As for whether Geelong/ another club will have more cash than Collingwood to offer. It's unclear but at this stage with Jolly/Johnson/Didak all looking like they're probably in their final years enough money should be available to bring back Toovey, Maxwell and Thomas assuming they don't get greedy and request overs.


From set shots give me Billings. In Geelong terms he is another Jimmy Bartel. Every bit as strong overhead, has that same class and his conversion in front of goal is as good as any.

As the 70m player I'd take Luke McDonald by a long shot. Has pace and a very penetrating but pinpoint kick. But given that he won't really be in that draft pool with NM to F/S him I'd go with Ben Lennon to be that next guy.

On the run James Aish and Josh Kelly are all class.

 

[Turbocat]

Thomas was a Geelong fan as a kid. He has in the past been in dialogue with a number of their players and from rumours coaches. Not specifically about contacts/ or anything to do with joining the club but rather just general friendships.

In addition to this Geelong is a winning club. No club these past 6/7 years has experienced greater success and with a number of veterans nearing the end of their careers I see it as an attractive place to go as a free agent. You've got the winning culture and great future winning chances with that young core group coming through as well as a chance for a pay rise if some salary cap space opens up. It looks from the distance an attractive free agent landing spot anyway.

Malthouse and Neeld both do have strong relationships with Thomas. Mick loved Dale more than any other player and Neeld understands his game very well also having been the Collingwood midfield coach during his best seasons (2010+2011) so you can bet both will make strong plays at him. If Geelong have that cash available to come close to matching Carlton/Melbourne and exceed the offer Collingwood put on the table for a fair stretch then I could see Thomas strongly considering Geelong and certainly favouring the Cats over Carlton/Melbourne despite his relationships with the respective coaches.

As for whether Geelong/ another club will have more cash than Collingwood to offer. It's unclear but at this stage with Jolly/Johnson/Didak all looking like they're probably in their final years enough money should be available to bring back Toovey, Maxwell and Thomas assuming they don't get greedy and request overs.


From set shots give me Billings. In Geelong terms he is another Jimmy Bartel. Every bit as strong overhead, has that same class and his conversion in front of goal is as good as any.

As the 70m player I'd take Luke McDonald by a long shot. Has pace and a very penetrating but pinpoint kick. But given that he won't really be in that draft pool with NM to F/S him I'd go with Ben Lennon to be that next guy.

On the run James Aish and Josh Kelly are all class.

A lot of good info and sound logic there Knightmare.

The FA thing is still very new , I'm not sure we have seen the full range collaborations and outcomes. I wonder if we will ever see bad feeling between clubs like we saw in the 80 between Pies and Tigers. The restricted FA has the potential to be quite inflationary. Especially if a club starts going tit for tat.

So far the bigger names that have left clubs seemed to have done so with apparent good will with their current clubs almost happy to move on. Will this be the same for someone like Thomas , while going to Melbourne would probably be how the system is hoped to work , its more likely that player will go , as your have theorized , to places of choice with depth of talent, facilities, resources ... Not sure collingwood would be overjoyed to loose him to the Blues or Geelong if they rate us as finals competitors.

On kicking - I did ask for the best for the best , so it should not surprise that we will not get within a bulls roar of any of them. Shame , Billings sound very Geelong.

 

[raro]

Hey KM
Just wondering if you had Sam heavyside in any of your 2013 calculations? Had a great year as a bottom age player in 2011 winning the b and f for bendigo pioneers and last year had a decent couple of games when he wasn't injured. He seems to good not to be on an AFL list but unfourtunatly his draft year was cruelled with injuries. Any thoughts would be great, thanks !