KOUTA: overated or genuine superstar?

[Bronx Bomber]

of course he would, but that doesn't make Buckleys performance any less brilliant.

Wait on. According to you one of the reason's why Kouta shouldn't be considered a champion is because he couldn't win Carlton a flag. Does that mean that Buckley is just an average footballer as well? I mean he couldn't win Collingwood a flag.

 

[Wojee]

Due to injury it's impossible to call Kouta a Superstar.
Prior to his injury though he played arguably the most dominant season ever by an individual. A shame he was cut down.

 

[JeffDunne]

Wojee, I think you are confusing being a superstar with being a champion.

Kouta was a superstar of the competition. He won't though be considered an all time champion. There is a difference.

 

[mediumsizered]

your point?? he wasn't good enough to get carlton a flag, and that is what the essendon supporter believes.

Have you ever watched the '95 GF in its entirety? If you have you will have noted that even though Diesel won the Norm Smith Medal, there were actually at least 2 other players on the ground that had much better games, Peter Dean & Kouta. Kouta was in fact called as the best on ground several times as the game neared its end. IMO the greats of the game are those that can produce their best in the game that counts the most. That is why Michael Voss' last quarter in the 2002 GF puts him head & shoulders above the Norm Smith Medallist from that game.

 

[Wojee]

Wojee, I think you are confusing being a superstar with being a champion.

Been on BigFooty too long where the labels Superstar and Champion are thrown around like confetti

 

[doppleganger]

Have you ever watched the '95 GF in its entirety? If you have you will have noted that even though Diesel won the Norm Smith Medal, there were actually at least 2 other players on the ground that had much better games, Peter Dean & Kouta. Kouta was in fact called as the best on ground several times as the game neared its end. IMO the greats of the game are those that can produce their best in the game that counts the most. That is why Michael Voss' last quarter in the 2002 GF puts him head & shoulders above the Norm Smith Medallist from that game.

wasn't attacking kouta.

was questioning the merit of a post by an essendon supporter who reckons kouta has been a better player simple because he won a premiership. to say if u put any of those players in a collingwood team that they would have dragged them over the line is absolute bulltish.

all the more reason why Buckley is a great of the game, he played his best footy in the GF.

kouta would have been a great of the game if he kept up his 99,00,01 form going for more then those three years.

 

[doppleganger]

Wait on. According to you one of the reason's why Kouta shouldn't be considered a champion is because he couldn't win Carlton a flag. Does that mean that Buckley is just an average footballer as well? I mean he couldn't win Collingwood a flag.

miss my point, i dont reckon kouta is a champion because he didn't produce it for long enough, think u agree on this point

i was critical of a post in which a bloke said that because kouta won carlton a flag he is a champion player and ahead of blokes like, Buckley, R.Harvey, West etc which is just crap. kouta simply played in a premiership team. put any of buckley, harvey, west etc. in carltons 95 team and they still would have won the flag. Put kouta in to the pies side of 02,03 or the saints in 97 etc. instead of buckley or harvey and the result wouldn't suddenly change

the bloke i was answering simply had no idea

 

[SaintsSupporter]

Not a superstar anymore, but the respect he governs is earned.

 

[mediumsizered]

wasn't attacking kouta.

was questioning the merit of a post by an essendon supporter who reckons kouta has been a better player simple because he won a premiership. to say if u put any of those players in a collingwood team that they would have dragged them over the line is absolute bulltish.
all the more reason why Buckley is a great of the game, he played his best footy in the GF.

kouta would have been a great of the game if he kept up his 99,00,01 form going for more then those three years.

Do you not think it is feasible that if the Magpies had a Harmes & a Johnston in their 79 & 81 GF sides that might have got them over the line? Some players have that special quality to lift to another level in finals & particularly GFs. In 2002, when the GF was up for grabs Michael Voss put his hand up & said i am going to get my team over the line, whereas Buckley, for who knows what reason, was not able to go to another level. That is where the difference lies. The same theory can be applied to players like BillyPicken, Ray Shaw, Peter Moore, Rene Kink, Peter McCormack, Ronnie Wearmouth etc & to go further back you can throw in Barry Price, Len Thompson, Wayne Richardson, Twiggy Dunne, Des Tuddenham etc. True champions possess that extra inner strength.

 

[scooter600x]

Buckley, for who knows what reason, was not able to go to another level. That is where the difference lies.

Perhaps the difference was that Voss had Black, Power, Lappin, Aker and Hart to help him while Buckley had to do it all himself?

Anyone who uses the 'premiership player' bit to prove a players worth is a dill.

Stan Alves played 250 games with Melbourne and never played in a final. Melbourne thought he was finished and traded him to North where Alves won a premiership.

Did Alves aged 32 suddenly become a better player because he won a premiership?

 

[doppleganger]

Do you not think it is feasible that if the Magpies had a Harmes & a Johnston in their 79 & 81 GF sides that might have got them over the line? Some players have that special quality to lift to another level in finals & particularly GFs. In 2002, when the GF was up for grabs Michael Voss put his hand up & said i am going to get my team over the line, whereas Buckley, for who knows what reason, was not able to go to another level. That is where the difference lies. The same theory can be applied to players like BillyPicken, Ray Shaw, Peter Moore, Rene Kink, Peter McCormack, Ronnie Wearmouth etc & to go further back you can throw in Barry Price, Len Thompson, Wayne Richardson, Twiggy Dunne, Des Tuddenham etc. True champions possess that extra inner strength.

in the 02 GF Buckley dominated all day, no other player could have done any more, not his fault that up one end taz misses a shot on goal, and down the other end aker kicks one over his shoulder, but because of things like that supposedly voss lifted his team over the line, and buckley failed.

Tis crap

hence the bloke saying kouta is better because he won a flag is rubbish

 

[ryan2000]

Kouta should have a Brownlow Medal (how'd woewoddin got it is beyond me) & a Norm Smith (was BOG in 95' but Diesel did get 5 goals, which was always gonna look better on paper) medal hanging around his neck...................We'd be thinking differently of him if he did.

But Medals / stats/ whatever mean stuff all to me and i'm quite sick of em.

A superstar to me is somebody that is (or was) an entertainment machine who can bring fans through the gates and other players to the club.
(Nick DalSanto, Nick Riewoldt, Daniel Kerr, etc, etc)

A Champion is one who can (or could) turn a game with their own foot.
(Buckley, Hird, Voss, Roo, Kouta, Cousins, Judd)

A Legend is one who has changed the game and has his career echo long after they've retired.

So yeah, i;d say Kouta is a Champion who could have been a Legend (and still could well be).

But that's just my opinion, doesn't mean it's right.

But he's a Champion to me becuase:-
He'll never turn up overweight to Pre-Season training.
He'll never end up in a pub brawl.
He'll never spend the night in lock-up after a 3:00am drunken fight.
He'll never get 6 weeks for striking. (In fact, he'll probably never get reported.)

HE'LL NEVER EVER BE AN ABSOLUTLE GUTLESS PANSY AND TRY AND MILK A FREE KICK THAT JUST WASN'T THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the most honest footballers ever to play the game and is still my hero regardless of age, medals, or how many kicks per week he gets.

 

[poopa trooper]

good call ryan

 

[Bee Vee]

Not a superstar anymore, but the respect he governs is earned.

Great post.

 

[poopa trooper]

Not a superstar anymore, but the respect he governs is earned.

agree

 

[bluechampion]

On the football field: A great player, and a club champion.

On the dance-floor: Superstar.

 

[j-ham]

We'll have to start calling him 'The Dominator'!

 

[HBF]

His form from 1999-2001 is some of the finest footy I have ever seen, and I've seen alot of footy in my 32 years on this planet.

Cruelly cut down by knee injuries that robbed us of seeing Kouta in full flight for a much longer period. Certainly a champion off the field, on the field, I think he will be remembered as a very very good player cut down in his prime by a very bad knee injury.

 

[anth22]

You have absolutely no idea

Kouta won his premiership in 1995, he was a promising young kid back then. It was Carlton's champions in Sticks, Diesel, SOS, Bradley etc. that were Carltons senior blokes in 95. When kouta's turn came round in 99,00,01 what did he win for Carlton??

How come Kouta couldn't get his team over the line in 99 if he was better then Buckley??

When Judd played his best game 05, his team also lost.

U simply have no idea of what ur talking about, clear that u dont rate Buckley but ur reasoning doesn't make sense.

Kouta's peak years 99, 2000 & 2001 seasons

15 games over 30 disposals - best 39
8 games kicking 3+ goals

Buckley's combined 99, 2000 & 2001 seasons

27 games over 30 disposals - 4 games 40+, best 46
8 games kicking 3+ goals

this being Kouta's only dominant period, Buckley has been at a higher level for a decade. With his best being better, and occuring much more often.

If you have actually seen that game you would know that Kouta was best on ground and veryyy unlucky not to win the norm smith ...... moron!