Let's stay positive and look to the future

[Bay Pie]

After last nights shellacking, we would all be bitterly disappointed and I need to write something positive to keep the spirits up. This is my view of our list looking towards our 2009 season when we should challenge for a flag.(I'd love to have a crack this year and next but I'm being realistic. Hard to see anyone beating Geelong or West Coast this year)

For 2009
Leon- Play mainly as FP with rotation through midfield
Rusling-Has potential but haven't seen enough of yet. Don't trade yet.
Lonie-May be trade bait in next few years and will probably lose his position to S Cox.
Didak-Should be over knee by 2008 and will see him play mainly midfield/HFF.
Bucks-Will be retired
Holland-Our No. 1 tagger
Medhurst-Unlikely to be still on the list based on 2007 form
Jimmy-Should be the general down back but in his last couple of years
Jack Anthony-Has potential but hasn't played AFL yet. Keep him.
Pendles-Midfield gun. Start to have major influence on games
O'Bree-Run with Midfielder playing bit part role in middle.
Cox-Wing/HBF. Shoiuld be putting those classy skills on consistently
Daisy- Midfield/HFF rotating role similar to Didak.
Wakes-Retired
Egan-Classy skills to play on wing/HFF. Haven't seen enough of yet. Don't trade yet.
N Brown-Hasn't played AFL yet. Should play KPB. Keep him.
Burnsy-Retired
Licuria-Retired
Davies-Delisted
Reid-By this time will have filled out and could be playing anywhere.
Richards-May very well be gone by then depending on draft and trade 2007 and 2008.
R Shaw-HBF providing our run from back half.
Pebs-Probably retired or last year
Lockyer-Spare parts man who fills in where required.HBF/middle/HFF
Josh-Same role hopefully with more support
Johnson-BP/Middle-also provode run from back half.
Maxwell-Defensive forward or defensive swingman.
Stanley-Haven't seen enough of yet. Needs to show something more in 2008 to survive.
Cook-See Stanley
O'Brien-Will form part of our back 6
Dawes-Very Important that he becomes a good player-haven't seen much but we need him to replace Pebs.
T Cloke-CHF-should be dominating
Dick-Looking like 1 of the Davey brothers by then
Toovey- See Stanley
Presti-Still our FB. Will only have a couple more years.
Swan-Should be our version of Adam Simpson but kicks more goals
Iles-Could be BP-50/50 chance to still be on our list
Goldsack-HBF/winger. Plays on talls and smalls
H Shaw-Dominating from the middle
Bryan-Very surprised if he is still on the list.Depends on drafting/trading in 2007 and 2008.
Nicolls- haven't seen enough yet but unlikely to be still on list
Wellingham-Haven't seen enough yet.
Clarke-Will be part of the midfield rotation
Macaffer-Haven't seen enough of yet

Obviously we have to draft at least 4, I think, each year so they all won't stay.

We need to draft ruckmen, obviously, and another class midfielder and an in and under midfielder over the next few years. In todays game, I think you need a good 3 to 4 class midfielders that give good supply to your forwards. Most of the other contenders will have this.

 

[Thommo 42]

After last nights shellacking, we would all be bitterly disappointed and I need to write something positive to keep the spirits up. This is my view of our list looking towards our 2009 season when we should challenge for a flag.(I'd love to have a crack this year and next but I'm being realistic. Hard to see anyone beating Geelong or West Coast this year)

1. 2007 isn't over
2. By pretending to be positive, you are being very negative
3. Hard to see anyone beating West Coast? They got thumped by the same margin we did last night only 3 weeks ago.
4. We could easily beat Geelong and West Coast at the G when we are up and running. We could possibly have Jimmy Clement, Rhyce Shaw and Nathan Buckley coming into the side in the next 5 weeks, we will finish Top 4 and anything can happen from there.

The Pendlebury injury is the biggest worry for me.

 

[Bay Pie]

2. By pretending to be positive, you are being very negative
3. Hard to see anyone beating West Coast? They got thumped by the same margin we did last night only 3 weeks ago.

Not negative just realistic. Endeavour and effort only get you so far. We genuinely lack experienced class in the middle compared to Geelong and WCE.

Yeh West Coast got pumped a few weeks ago without Kerr and Cousins with Judd looking proppy. Not to mention Hansen and Embley.

Agree totally that in the finals anything can happen, just unlikely.

 

[surfer1]

Not negative just realistic. Endeavour and effort only get you so far. We genuinely lack experienced class in the middle compared to Geelong and WCE.

Yeh West Coast got pumped a few weeks ago without Kerr and Cousins with Judd looking proppy. Not to mention Hansen and Embley.

Agree totally that in the finals anything can happen, just unlikely.

fully agree with your view

 

[hellfire]

Our problem is that we don't have those superstar players. We don't have a Black, Brown, Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Goodes, Ablett, Bartel etc. etc. I know we have a well rounded team that contributes equally, but premiership sides have well rounded teams, WITH superstar players. Someone like Pendlebury or Cloke has the potential to become one, but I don't think we will win a flag for a few years yet. I'm not saying this year is gone because of last night, I just don't think we have what it takes to go the whole way this year.

 

[M-Train]

Everyone, Let's not pack up just yet!!!!

In a way, it could be the best thing for us. It could wake us up!!! That Maxwell handpass 3 meters out was a sign of no respect. Who handpasses there!!!

That was not Collingwood last night, that was an imposter team. We are 100 times better than that.

Brisbane would have probably beaten most sides last night.

 

[Thommo 42]

You guys forget that we have a few outs and despite his age and experience, the influence of Pendles at the stoppages can't be under estimated.

We got pumped fair and square, but playing with 21 for all but 3 minutes and missing Pendles didn't help.

 

[Lehban]

Everyone, Let's not pack up just yet!!!!

In a way, it could be the best thing for us. It could wake us up!!! That Maxwell handpass 3 meters out was a sign of no respect. Who handpasses there!!!

That was not Collingwood last night, that was an imposter team. We are 100 times better than that.

Brisbane would have probably beaten most sides last night.

100 times zero is still zero. Seriously though in your position its better to get flogged in a home and away game than in the finals. Like when west coast used to flog us in our prime years but we still won finals. Collingwood didnt seem to handle the pressure well last night and thats something they need to address the next few weeks.

 

[DeZi]

100 times zero is still zero. Seriously though in your position its better to get flogged in a home and away game than in the finals. Like when west coast used to flog us in our prime years but we still won finals. Collingwood didnt seem to handle the pressure well last night and thats something they need to address the next few weeks.

That is right, you flogged us once in the H&A (we won the other) and we will win the finals and you won't make it

 

[Lehban]

That is right, you flogged us once in the H&A (we won the other) and we will win the finals and you won't make it

Collingwood are excellant at winning finals. But not Grand finals. Your guys will have to be harder at the ball to win the grand final this year.

 

[kegmeister_MC]

Collingwood are excellant at winning finals. But not Grand finals. Your guys will have to be harder at the ball to win the grand final this year.

this guy has been lucky and was able to support a team that was unbeatable for three years! The Brians know all about being hard at the ball matthews was a thug and tuff as nails , checkout our 1990 team, only a few teeth between them but nearly all tuff as nails!!!

The Pies were crap, can only get better

 

[MarkT]

10 players currently on the list won’t line up for the start of the 2009 season. There are two culls between now and then and around 5 will go each time. It’s unlikely that any of the 2008 cull will contain anyone drafted in 2007.

Potential retirements:
Wakelin, Buckley, Burns, Licuria, Rocca

Potential delistings:
Richards, Bryan, Medurst, Davies,

That is 9 players. If we don’t change our ruckmen over a few players will be in the gun.

Still require some time but have to show more:
Egan, Stanley

In addition I am a bit sceptical about (I expect them to still be on the list though):
Toovey, Iles.

Can’t really comment on players yet to play. They key to building a premiership list isn’t the above names it is who we draft and who in addition to the above we draft out and for whom.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

For 2008
Leon- his 2007 form's been good but he wont get any better.
Rusling- possible trade bait but I doubt the club will offer him up after investing in him heavily
Lonie- Trade bait.
Didak- Should move into midfield. Still has the pace, but not the stamina, so needs a full preseason
Bucks- Retire
Holland- I'd like to see him traded
Medhurst- Will get a second year at Collingwood
Jimmy- Club Captain for 2008 and 2009
Jack Anthony- Keep
Pendles- Keep
O'Bree- Keep
Cox- Needs to find a role to play but definitely a keeper
Daisy- Forward
Wakes-Retired
Egan- Injury has probably taken him off the trade table. Would like to see him at half back
N Brown- Will play some senior footy at full back
Burnsy- Will play on
Licuria- 50/50 whether he has another year left in him
Davies-Delisted
Reid- 2009 will be his year
Richards- Keep but recruit another ruck to supercede him. Trade if possible but pretty much worthless
R Shaw- Keep
Pebs- Keep but hius career is getting shorter every week
Lockyer- Genuine leader
Josh-Same role hopefully with more support
Johnson - keep - outside chance of being trade bait but will stay
Maxwell- keep
Stanley- in danger of being dleisted
Cook- keep
O'Brien- keep but we over-rate him somewhat - Brown and Goldsack may pass him by in time. Needs to work on his skills and mobility.
Dawes- Promising debut already in the seconds, kicking goals with limited gametime
T Cloke- AA CHF
Dick- midfield after a huge summer in the gym
Toovey- may be delisted
Presti- keep
Swan- keep
Iles-keep but may miss the cut due to his size
Goldsack- eventually I'd like to see him midfield
H Shaw-AA
Bryan- He or Richards will go
Nicolls- too small
Wellingham- retain as rookie
Clarke- promote
Macaffer-Haven't seen but has had some good games according to the paper, may stay on rookie list.

 

[Chase the Ace]

After last nights shellacking, we would all be bitterly disappointed and I need to write something positive to keep the spirits up. This is my view of our list looking towards our 2009 season when we should challenge for a flag.(I'd love to have a crack this year and next but I'm being realistic. Hard to see anyone beating Geelong or West Coast this year)

For 2009
Leon- Play mainly as FP with rotation through midfield
Rusling-Has potential but haven't seen enough of yet. Don't trade yet.
Lonie-May be trade bait in next few years and will probably lose his position to S Cox.
Didak-Should be over knee by 2008 and will see him play mainly midfield/HFF.
Bucks-Will be retired
Holland-Our No. 1 tagger
Medhurst-Unlikely to be still on the list based on 2007 form
Jimmy-Should be the general down back but in his last couple of years
Jack Anthony-Has potential but hasn't played AFL yet. Keep him.
Pendles-Midfield gun. Start to have major influence on games
O'Bree-Run with Midfielder playing bit part role in middle.
Cox-Wing/HBF. Shoiuld be putting those classy skills on consistently
Daisy- Midfield/HFF rotating role similar to Didak.
Wakes-Retired
Egan-Classy skills to play on wing/HFF. Haven't seen enough of yet. Don't trade yet.
N Brown-Hasn't played AFL yet. Should play KPB. Keep him.
Burnsy-Retired
Licuria-Retired
Davies-Delisted
Reid-By this time will have filled out and could be playing anywhere.
Richards-May very well be gone by then depending on draft and trade 2007 and 2008.
R Shaw-HBF providing our run from back half.
Pebs-Probably retired or last year
Lockyer-Spare parts man who fills in where required.HBF/middle/HFF
Josh-Same role hopefully with more support
Johnson-BP/Middle-also provode run from back half.
Maxwell-Defensive forward or defensive swingman.
Stanley-Haven't seen enough of yet. Needs to show something more in 2008 to survive.
Cook-See Stanley
O'Brien-Will form part of our back 6
Dawes-Very Important that he becomes a good player-haven't seen much but we need him to replace Pebs.
T Cloke-CHF-should be dominating
Dick-Looking like 1 of the Davey brothers by then
Toovey- See Stanley
Presti-Still our FB. Will only have a couple more years.
Swan-Should be our version of Adam Simpson but kicks more goals
Iles-Could be BP-50/50 chance to still be on our list
Goldsack-HBF/winger. Plays on talls and smalls
H Shaw-Dominating from the middle
Bryan-Very surprised if he is still on the list.Depends on drafting/trading in 2007 and 2008.
Nicolls- haven't seen enough yet but unlikely to be still on list
Wellingham-Haven't seen enough yet.
Clarke-Will be part of the midfield rotation
Macaffer-Haven't seen enough of yet

Obviously we have to draft at least 4, I think, each year so they all won't stay.

We need to draft ruckmen, obviously, and another class midfielder and an in and under midfielder over the next few years. In todays game, I think you need a good 3 to 4 class midfielders that give good supply to your forwards. Most of the other contenders will have this.

Great thread.
Very interested in your views and a great read.
I like the positiveness of it.
well done

 

[PieLebo87]

For 2009
Leon- FP/HFF
Rusling-Play him, either stars, or used as trade bait at end of 08
Lonie-Trade bait, but I'd rather keep. Maybe trade at END OF 08
Didak-Needs another AA season or gets traded before value gets lower
Bucks-Hope he goes another season, has too much to offer
Holland-Get something for him ASAP
Medhurst-I assume he'd get 1 more season
Jimmy-Will do what Clement does best
Jack Anthony-Will do what Clement does best
Pendles-Continue to develop his game, and body
O'Bree-Hopefully provide that clearance role until we find replacement
Cox-Can be one of our most important players if continues development
Daisy-Spend as much time as possible in the gym during pre-season
Wakes-Retired
Egan-Last chance in 08, otherwise delist/trade
N Brown-Keep developing in VFL
Burnsy-Go another season 50-60% gametime
Licuria-Another season as depth midfielder in VFL, or delist
Davies-Leave it for you guys who watch VFL
Reid-Nothing seems to be holding this guy back, play as a free running role before KP role
Richards-I'd rather play a developing young ruckman for 50% of games
R Shaw-HBF/winger providing run
Pebs-Needs to close the gap between his worst & best or retire
Lockyer-Just continue this seasons form & we'll be happy
Josh-Just do what you've been doing for 2yrs
Johnson-Needs to be more damaging as a HBF
Maxwell-Same as this season
Stanley-Another development yr with few AFL games
Cook-Hopefully can cement a spot in starting 18
O'Brien-1 of back 6
Dawes-Should be playing next season
T Cloke-Star CHF, needs to be even better if we're going to win flags
Dick- Put more meat on
Toovey- Keep developing
Presti-Mentor Nathan Brown
Swan-Needs to get on the goalkicking list more often
Iles-Either trade/delist or give 1 last season
Goldsack-1 of back 6
H Shaw-Should be moved into the middle
Bryan-Another season, needs a couple of AFL games in a row
Nicholls- 1 for VFL watchers to decide on
Wellingham- Same as ^^^^^
Clarke- Promote, straight into midfield
Macaffer- Same as Nicholls and Wellingham

As I said about Richards, just draft a couple of young ruckman and play them the way we've been playing Richards and Bryan. Playing 50-60% of gametime cannot harm their development.

 

[Dazman]

Stanley- in danger of being dleisted
Cook- keep

This is somewhat funny.

They are identical in alot of ways. Both drafted bottom-aged in the 2005 draft in the 2nd round (pick 20 and 23). Both have been in decent form at Williamstown, playing on-ball with Cook going down back a little and Stanley going forward a little.

One has been fortunate enough to get a couple of games at senior level and the other has not. And Stanley is in danger?

I worried for Stanners after his season last year but what I have seen this year has got him back to a level where I think he can make it. Yeah sure he was disappointing when he played on Robbo in his 1st game but I don't see that as being his role when in the future he does play for a Collingwood team that has a full backline.

 

[Coin_Toss]

Good effort. I think we are a few years away from a premiership. We have recruited well under (Derek) Hine. Most importantly we have added players who want to be successful, if we keep doing this I think this could set us up for a decade of team success. There's not many players whom I'd delist this year, they've all stepped up and shown something, that's a good sign.

 

[hellfire]

I'll give it a shot. I'll leave the ones I agree with.

Leon- Play mainly as FP with rotation through midfield.
Rusling - Start him next year, see how he goes with a permanent spot.
Lonie - One more year, or trade as part of a package if the right opportunity comes along.
Didak - To play primarily in the midfield. His class, pace, hardness and kicking skills are what we need. He should be over his knee by then.
Bucks - Retired.
Holland - Love him, but he has to go, or stay as a depth player. No room for crap disposal.
Medhurst - With Dale, Dids, Leon and Dick, I don't think he has a spot. Trade or delist. (Maybe harsh, but we have to be harsh to build for premierships).
Jimmy - Will be himself. Captain 2008.
Anthony - From what I've heard, looks the goods. Will hopefully replace Jimmy if he fulfills his potential. Should debut in 2008 and I can't wait for it.
Pendles - Our Simon Black or Del Santo. Will be an absolute star, and will have a permanent spot in the midfield.
O'Bree - Keep until we recruit some young in-and-under guns. In good form, but his disposal lets him down.
Cox - Loads of potential. This kid will be a long term Pie. Should play a similar role to Adam Goodes I think.
Daisy- More time in the engine room. Another pre-season under his belt, and he will be a gun midfielder. Going forward sometimes.
Wakes - Retired
Egan - Lots of potential, but the attitude seems to be lacking. Hopefully shows what he is made of in 08. Should play on the wing.
N Brown - Top 10 pick, has struggled this year at Willi but should improve. Hopefully our replacement for Presti.
Burnsy - Retired
Licuria - Retired
Davies - Delisted
Reid - Not sure where he will play. Possibly starting forward and floating up the ground in a Fraser-esque role. Looks the goods early, kicking will improve.
Richards - Delist if we find another ruck, otherwise keep. *sigh*
R Shaw - Will provide our run from half-back. If he can fine-tune his kicking just a bit more he will be a star.
Pebs - Will be getting less and less game time as the likes of Reid and Dawes, and Rusling get games.
Lockyer - A leader, should play on the wing or possibly even HFF. Hopefully sustains 07 form.
Josh - Same role, better form, hopefully relieved by a decent ruck.
Johnson - Same as Rhyce, but needs to get back to 06 form.
Maxwell - Defensive forward or defensive swingman.
Stanley - Could be an in and under mid for us, but will need another year to see. Don't like him playing back so much.
Cook - Looks the goods from what I've seen at Willi. Great disposal and pace, will play off half back or up the ground. Hope he debuts soon.
O'Brien - Long term backman. Very promising signs. Great one-on-one and rebounds very well, needs to get back to pre-injury form though.
Dawes - Lots of hype for Chris. Already built for AFL, will debut early in 08. If he lives up to the hype he will be devastating up forward.
T Cloke - Will become the #1 CHF in the league.
Dick - Put some weight on, and get time in the middle. Will play a similar role to Leon. This kid excites me, his kicking is immaculate.
Toovey - See Stanley.
Presti - Still our FB. Will only have a couple more years.
Swan - Not sure where his permanent position will be. Some time in the middle, some time on half forward and back. Goal kicking mid.
Iles - Some good signs, but not sure if he will stay. It depends on how many retirements there are, as to whether he will get the chop.
Goldsack - I think he will end up being a part-time backman and spend some time in the midfield/wing.
H Shaw - Midfield, midfield, midfield. He has everything that our midfield is lacking. Pace and acceleration, hardness second to none, he is accountable, has excellent disposable. Rhyce, Johnson, Swan, Goldsack, Cook etc. can replace Heath's drive off HB. Right now, our midfield is the issue.
Bryan - Delist if another ruck is obtained (him or Richards).
Nicolls - Probably will be delisted unfortunately because he deserves another shot.
Wellingham - Promote to the senior list. I know he hasn't play AFL yet, but from everything I have seen of this kid, he will be a gun midfielder (impossible to say for sure obviously, but I have a feeling about him). Very Kerr-esque IMO.
Clarke - Gonna be a star. Midfield mostly, and can play forward or back too.
Macaffer - Haven't seen enough of yet

 

[magpies42]

i think you will find that most ppl are positive, a young team had a bad day. its not time to swing the axe

 

[Optimax]

I posted this in another thread about delisting rucks but it makes sense here to well at least somewhat.

Whats all this one ruckman rubbish.

When we play just fraser everybody bitches and moans its killing him (it is he isnt built for constant impact), then when we play two the mob complains that we only need one.

I know ive missed the last month of footy but it seems Richards has shown **** all yet he is still in the side while Bryan is getting BOGs in the seconds, now Malthouse either needs to tell Richards to extract the digit and start to at least look like his trying or play bryan and tell him to wake up to himself and see that he cant dominate games in AFL (see the last half against adelaide) like he does VFL unless he puts in.

Also we should get rid of neither unless we have a suitable replacement in the off season yes i beleive that a lamp post with a shoe hanging off it is as good as richards but we tried with just 2 rucks on the last and it didnt work did it?