Traded Liam Baker - Now a West Coast Eagle

[Jeremias]

Time for some house cleaning.

1) Do not drag discussions or individual posts over here from other threads or boards.

Feel free to respond to those posts wherever they were posted, if you so choose.

2) Enough with the personal attacks. It’s a long season and this one may go the distance, so if you want to remain a part of the discussion, do it respectfully.

We will use thread bans and infractions if necessary.

 

[4tune8]

No. FWIW, I wouldn't give up pick 6 for 3 either if I'm Richmond but I'm not giving up 3 for 9 or 10 if I'm West Coast. Go back two years and we split 2 for 8 and 12. There's your starting point.

I might be (well I am) a little dumb.

Isn't 2 for 8 & 12, almost exactly the same as 3 for 9 & 13?

*Edit......It's actually way better than what you guys did 2 years ago.

Current scenario is 3-23 & Baker, if we threw Baker & 9 for 3 instead then you end up with 9-13-23 & Baker, so effectively....

2 for 8 & 12 was ok, but 3 for 9 & 13 & Baker isn't?

 

[the_interloper]

This sent shivers down my spine as a Dimma-ism I heard one too many times, lol.

I'm going to put a lot of Tiges offside here, but I'm not as fussed as to what we get for Baker.

Am I shattered to lose him? Absolutely, and WC fans will see why very soon. He's one of those players that does the little/team things that don't result in a personal stat but result in a positive team outcome. And, it gets missed by oppo fans when they "rate" a player. I'm sure you could name me several "undervalued" WC players that don't get the credit they deserve, and you wouldn't swap if you had the choice. Well, that's Bakes.

He's also an outstanding citizen, and he completed his contract, so I do nothing but wish him well. And I look forward to watching him in the coming seasons. Nothing but love here.

Richmond (unlike clubs like Essendon and Geelong) have an excellent comp wide reputation for being great to deal with and for getting things done with a minimum of fuss. I expect that with Baker/WC. What that is? Who knows, but I won't be losing sleep over it. Let's hope both sets of fans are upset, because that means the price is about right.

But gee I hope we dig our heels in on Rioli and Bolton, because long term contracted players are a different kettle of fish. You tie up the main magnets on the board long term, and fill in around that. If those players then want to cut and run, there needs to be a price.

I basically agree with you here, shattered to lose Baker but that's the climate in footy today, we'll get what we get, should be swings and roundabouts with this sort of thing anyway.

And agreed on Rioli and Bolton, really prefer to lose Bolton out of the two but they're probably both gone anyway, hopefully we do well out of it.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Baker is a very good player but not a great player. We already have one of those guys as well, ironically also named Liam. Fact is, we wouldn't get a first for Duggan, as valuable as he would be to a premiership contender.

I wanted Duggan from day 1. Bastards.

Regarding this quote, that's the secret to building a good, very consistent team. No team can afford many "great" or A+ players, due to the salary cap constraints. Getting the largest spread of "very good but not a great" players is smart.

For rebuilding clubs like ours, players like Baker and Duggan are gold because they give a consistently high level of output with far less peaks and troughs than most.

Bolton though, for example, is the cherry on top player (for a contender). His best is flat out unbelievable, but there are many flat spots, and teams like ours just can't carry that (at a high trade price, if you already possess it, that's different)

 

[Barrybran]

I might be (well I am) a little dumb.

Isn't 2 for 8 & 12, almost exactly the same as 3 for 9 & 13?

*Edit......It's actually way better than what you guys did 2 years ago.

Current scenario is 3-23 & Baker, if we threw Baker & 9 for 3 instead then you end up with 9-13-23 & Baker, so effectively....

2 for 8 & 12 was ok, but 3 for 9 & 13 & Baker isn't?

We already hold 13 though so 9 + Baker is missing something because Baker isn't worth pick 12/13

 

[Barrybran]

I wanted Duggan from day 1. Bastards.

Regarding this quote, that's the secret to building a good, very consistent team. No team can afford many "great" or A+ players, due to the salary cap constraints. Getting the largest spread of "very good but not a great" players is smart.

For rebuilding clubs like ours, players like Baker and Duggan are gold because they give a consistently high level of output with far less peaks and troughs than most.

Bolton though, for example, is the cherry on top player (for a contender). His best is flat out unbelievable, but there are many flat spots, and teams like ours just can't carry that (at a high trade price, if you already possess it, that's different)

100%. But we should also be using picks 3, 13, F1 on kids who are likely to be a core part of our next premiership team. Baker is not that.

I agree with your comments on Bolton, which is why I hope we don't entertain that idea.

 

[4tune8]

We already hold 13 though so 9 + Baker is missing something because Baker isn't worth pick 12/13

Okay.

It's been reported that 13 is on the table for Baker, so you don't actually hold that pick anymore. Your draft hand is now 3-23 & Baker. We can argue whether that's value or not all day long, but the simple fact of the matter is that 13 is gone.

I think what you guys did 2 years ago by splitting 2 for 8 & 12 was way unders, but it is what it is, and as you said, it's the starting point.

WCE:

2 for 8 & 12 two years ago.

3 for 10 & 13 & Baker this year, leaving you with 10-13-23 & Baker as opposed 3-23 & Baker.

Tigers:

1-6-9-10-13 currently

1-3-6-9 after trades

 

[Barrybran]

It's been reported that 13 is on the table for Baker, so you don't actually hold that pick anymore

That's not how things work and I think you know this

 

[Hawks_Footy]

No inside info.. but assume Tigers get pick 16 from Freo as part of Shai Bolton

15

Shai Bolton

Age

26

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

deal..

Who says No?

Tigers
Get Pick 13, Hawks F1
Give Baker, Pick 16, Pick 29

Eagles
Get Baker, Pick 16, Pick 29
Give Barrass, Pick 23

Hawks
Get Barrass, Pick 23
Give Pick 13, F1

 

[Cobbler]

Would either team do:

3 and 13 for 6, 16 and Baker?

Assuming 6 and 16 are received via other trades.

Eagles keep a presence in picks. Tigers shuffle forwards.

Tigers will then likely have 1, 3, 9, 13, 21, 29

If Tiger just want 13 and let’s just assume they give 29 back

Tigers will have 1, 6, 9, 13, 16, 21

 

[Suma Magic]

Okay.

It's been reported that 13 is on the table for Baker, so you don't actually hold that pick anymore. Your draft hand is now 3-23 & Baker. We can argue whether that's value or not all day long, but the simple fact of the matter is that 13 is gone.

I think what you guys did 2 years ago by splitting 2 for 8 & 12 was way unders, but it is what it is, and as you said, it's the starting point.

WCE:

2 for 8 & 12 two years ago.

3 for 10 & 13 & Baker this year, leaving you with 10-13-23 & Baker as opposed 3-23 & Baker.

Tigers:

1-6-9-10-13 currently

1-3-6-9 after trades

Has it been reported that 13 has been offered, or that reporters expect the eagles to offer it?

 

[Barrybran]

No inside info.. but assume Tigers get pick 16 from Freo as part of Shai Bolton deal..

Who says No?

Tigers
Get Pick 13, Hawks F1
Give Baker, Pick 16, Pick 29

Eagles
Get Baker, Pick 16, Pick 29
Give Barrass, Pick 23

Hawks
Get Barrass, Pick 23
Give Pick 13, F1

Looks reasonable on paper but I don't see us giving up 23 in this scenario. Swap it out for our F2 or take it out altogether and get your second from Richmond and it might have legs.

 

[4tune8]

Has it been reported that 13 has been offered, or that reporters expect the eagles to offer it?

I rate Twomey, has good inside knowledge, of course his account might have been hacked by Jon Ralph

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

The trouble is though that your reality looks like being 13 (plus something back for Baker) So you're only left with 3-23, in my mind that's not enough 1st round picks for you guys. How then do you maximise your draft hand, given that the Tigers wont give up 6 & ? for pick 3. There's no other club that has the assets to give you 2 x top 10 picks this year and if you split it for a 1st this year and an F1 then you're pushing into a compromised and possibly weaker draft next year. Does 9 & Baker sound better than 10 & Baker for pick 3?

Is 9-13-23 better than 3-23?

No way known pick 13 is included unless it also involves pivk 21 coming back to WC.

 

[Suma Magic]

I rate Twomey, has good inside knowledge, of course his account might have been hacked by Jon Ralph

So expected to be offered? As opposed to is on the table?

 

[Coach_Required]

No way known pick 13 is included unless it also involves pivk 21 coming back to WC.

Richmond is not moving up 8 spots and losing Baker.

 

[4tune8]

So expected to be offered? As opposed to is on the table?

Granted, it says expected, but where's there's smoke.......

 

[4tune8]

Richmond is not moving up 8 spots and losing Baker.

Not for a mid 1st round pick, the recruiters could offer 10 for 3 however

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Richmond is not moving up 8 spots and losing Baker.

Ok you're right WC third rounder would also be coming your way. My bad.

 

[Coach_Required]

Not for a mid 1st round pick, the recruiters could offer 10 for 3 however

I just have an issue with some people who think 13 for Baker & 21 is fair .... in what world? Thats Basically giving him away for free.

They could try and make it a bit more believable and say pick 29 FFS

 

[Coach_Required]

Ok you're right WC third rounder would also be coming your way. My bad.

We've already got West Coast's 3rd rounder.

 

[Astro35]

I just have an issue with some people who think 13 for Baker & 21 is fair .... in what world? Thats Basically giving him away for free.

They could try and make it a bit more believable and say pick 29 FFS

I'd say 13 and 21 is massive, massive overs. The eagles aren't here to help the tigers rebuild.

 

[bzparkes]

I rate Twomey, has good inside knowledge, of course his account might have been hacked by Jon Ralph

All he says is he 'expects' it, not it is on the table.

 

[bzparkes]

I'd say 13 and 21 is massive, massive overs. The eagles aren't here to help the tigers rebuild.

No, he means we get 21 back.

 

[Astro35]

No, he means we get 21 back.

Ahh, ok makes more sense. Apologies for not reading that correctly.

 

[stallon]

I would seriously doubt that your recruiters would be looking at positional needs with any 1st round picks, particularly pick 3. It's not like you have a plethora of picks and a revolving door of 1st round picks and an academy delivering high end players like GWS or GCS.

If there are a few options that are similarly talented, then you absolutely do take the one that fits the list needs.
Its been widely acknowledged the top of the draft is very even

The Eagles are very much like the Tigers and need an injection of talent all over the ground. Your draft hand is looking like 3 & 23, that's it. So you get, say, Langford & Dattoli/Hannaford, as opposed to Travaglia & Bo Allan/Xavier Lindsay & Dattoli/Hannaford if you end up with 10-13-23. A few things to consider, 1. All the talk is that those players ranked 7-15 could well be ranked 1-8 in a shallower draft. 2. The Tigers wont give up 6 for 3 (they might for 2 as that guarantees their choices).

We need talent all through the midfield and backline, but not all mids or defenders are the same. We need outside players that can assist in rebound and transition more than anything else.
I dont think Travaglia ends up being available at 10, thats why id want a top 7 pick to make sure I got him if I was passing on a suitable mid in that top area.