Speculation Liam Baker [reportedly headed west]

[Jeremias]

Time for some house cleaning.

1) Do not drag discussions or individual posts over here from other threads or boards.

Feel free to respond to those posts wherever they were posted, if you so choose.

2) Enough with the personal attacks. It’s a long season and this one may go the distance, so if you want to remain a part of the discussion, do it respectfully.

We will use thread bans and infractions if necessary.

 

[4tune8]

We need talent at the pointy end too

I like talent at my pointy end too, but the question is, are you better off in a deep draft to get a shot at 2 high end talents plus Baker, or just get Baker and have 1 shot?

 

[4tune8]

Ive looked at the draft, and its really only 2-3 of the top 6 mids or Travaglia I want in the top 10, I highly doubt we get any of them with pick 9 or 10. Dont want Allan, Berry, or Hotton with a top 13 pick, id be hoping for Lindsay if we have 13 still

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the recruiters office, this draft is deep with probably the first tier being 1-6 and the next through to 15

 

[Barrybran]

I like talent at my pointy end too, but the question is, are you better off in a deep draft to get a shot at 2 high end talents plus Baker, or just get Baker and have 1 shot?

The problem with your question is that you're not asking it out of genuine interest for West Coast's list. You're asking it out of interest for Richmond's list. That is completely fair and reasonable but it comes off strongly as disingenuous.

The simple answer is players at the top end of the draft have a statistically better chance of being elite players and having long careers. We need such players as much as you, as much as any other club. I understand that Richmond fans' goal this offseason is to collect all of the chips but we have to look after our corner. That means a pick no lower than 6, I would think ideally two top ten picks, and probably 4-5 picks inside the top 30 on top of any players we bring in.

That can certainly be achieved with our assets but it isn't going to happen by swapping pick 3 for Baker + 10. That isn't a good trade for us. Better trades from our side would be something like 3 + 13 for 6, 16 + Baker or 3 + F2 for 6, 29 + Baker (factoring in upgraded compensation for Graham in both trades). Richmond fans will no doubt scoff at those suggestions but pick 3 is the best asset on the table so something has to be in it for us as well.

Ideally, if we were to split pick 3, we would find a way to turn 3 + 13 into 6, 9 + Baker (with something else for you guys. Don't panic).

 

[stallon]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the recruiters office, this draft is deep with probably the first tier being 1-6 and the next through to 15

Im looking at positional needs when I decide who I want, not just who is in each talent tier

 

[garlic munchers]

Get excited Eagles fans.
You're getting one of our best players, who would walk into any side's best 22.
He'll provide great leadership too.
I'm not happy he's gone, but my Mrs is an Eagles fan so that makes this bitter pill a bit easier to swallow!

Eagles fans not as adept at swallowing apparently.

 

[Astro35]

So Eagles want 2 x 1st rounders for 29yo Barrass + change but won't part with one of those 1st rounders for 27yo Baker... getting a bit greedy out West i think

You mean a player with a 3 year contract vs ooc?

 

[LOZWILDA]

Pick 13
Keep it simple.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[The Goon]

Ideally, if we were to split pick 3, we would find a way to turn 3 + 13 into 6, 9 + Baker (with something else for you guys. Don't panic).

That’s a horrific deal for us. With everyone saying you can throw a blanket over 1-6, and another over 7-15ish were effectively giving you Baker for nothing.


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[Moonatic77]

WC boy wanting to come home is great, but the truth is he won't be part of the next flag, and this is when we need to recruit the core. Helping the tigers with their rebuild is not a goal of West Coast. I hope.

I don't know why you want him

 

[Hawks_Footy]

You mean a player with a 3 year contract vs ooc?

So by this theory with Darling also being contracted for next year you'll be driving a hard bargain there also? If so, what is your starting price there?

 

[eaglespremiers]

 

[tiger_tough]

 

[Moonatic77]

We do want that.

For the picks you'll have to give up and the fact he's right on that outer age bracket as a future Weagle premiership player I sure as shit wouldn't

 

[eastfreo75]

WCE F2 for Baker.

 

[Astro35]

So by this theory with Darling also being contracted for next year you'll be driving a hard bargain there also? If so, what is your starting price there?

Theory, what theory??. One is on a long term contract and the other isn't.

 

[Astro35]

For the picks you'll have to give up and the fact he's right on that outer age bracket as a future Weagle premiership player I sure as shit wouldn't

I was agreeing with you. We want to hit the draft.

 

[Moonatic77]

I was agreeing with you. We want to hit the draft.

Sorry mate
Agree you guys should hit the draft big time, so should we too

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

The problem with your question is that you're not asking it out of genuine interest for West Coast's list. You're asking it out of interest for Richmond's list. That is completely fair and reasonable but it comes off strongly as disingenuous.

The simple answer is players at the top end of the draft have a statistically better chance of being elite players and having long careers. We need such players as much as you, as much as any other club. I understand that Richmond fans' goal this offseason is to collect all of the chips but we have to look after our corner. That means a pick no lower than 6, I would think ideally two top ten picks, and probably 4-5 picks inside the top 30 on top of any players we bring in.

That can certainly be achieved with our assets but it isn't going to happen by swapping pick 3 for Baker + 10. That isn't a good trade for us. Better trades from our side would be something like 3 + 13 for 6, 16 + Baker or 3 + F2 for 6, 29 + Baker (factoring in upgraded compensation for Graham in both trades). Richmond fans will no doubt scoff at those suggestions but pick 3 is the best asset on the table so something has to be in it for us as well.

Ideally, if we were to split pick 3, we would find a way to turn 3 + 13 into 6, 9 + Baker (with something else for you guys. Don't panic).

Well, the suggestions here certainly aren't out of genuine interest for Richmonds list, that's for sure.

 

[PorcelainBus]

Glad he's not going to Freo - being in the West and having a soft spot for Freo who I watch live each week, I'm certain that he's not the one Freo needs "this is not the player you are looking for" (droid) . . .

 

[Barrybran]

Well, the suggestions here certainly aren't out of genuine interest for Richmonds list, that's for sure.

The reality is, from our perspective, that we shouldn't be giving up anything more than an F2 for Baker. Not because that's what we think he's worth but because we're in a rebuild as well. Giving up assets like pick 3 or pick 13 should result in a trade that is favourable to us. I'd expect the same if Richmond were to consider giving up pick 1 or their F1.

 

[4tune8]

Im looking at positional needs when I decide who I want, not just who is in each talent tier

I would seriously doubt that your recruiters would be looking at positional needs with any 1st round picks, particularly pick 3. It's not like you have a plethora of picks and a revolving door of 1st round picks and an academy delivering high end players like GWS or GCS.

The Eagles are very much like the Tigers and need an injection of talent all over the ground. Your draft hand is looking like 3 & 23, that's it. So you get, say, Langford & Dattoli/Hannaford, as opposed to Travaglia & Bo Allan/Xavier Lindsay & Dattoli/Hannaford if you end up with 10-13-23. A few things to consider, 1. All the talk is that those players ranked 7-15 could well be ranked 1-8 in a shallower draft. 2. The Tigers wont give up 6 for 3 (they might for 2 as that guarantees their choices).

 

[4tune8]

The reality is, from our perspective, that we shouldn't be giving up anything more than an F2 for Baker. Not because that's what we think he's worth but because we're in a rebuild as well. Giving up assets like pick 3 or pick 13 should result in a trade that is favourable to us. I'd expect the same if Richmond were to consider giving up pick 1 or their F1.

The trouble is though that your reality looks like being 13 (plus something back for Baker) So you're only left with 3-23, in my mind that's not enough 1st round picks for you guys. How then do you maximise your draft hand, given that the Tigers wont give up 6 & ? for pick 3. There's no other club that has the assets to give you 2 x top 10 picks this year and if you split it for a 1st this year and an F1 then you're pushing into a compromised and possibly weaker draft next year. Does 9 & Baker sound better than 10 & Baker for pick 3?

Is 9-13-23 better than 3-23?

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

The reality is, from our perspective, that we shouldn't be giving up anything more than an F2 for Baker. Not because that's what we think he's worth but because we're in a rebuild as well. Giving up assets like pick 3 or pick 13 should result in a trade that is favourable to us. I'd expect the same if Richmond were to consider giving up pick 1 or their F1.

This sent shivers down my spine as a Dimma-ism I heard one too many times, lol.

I'm going to put a lot of Tiges offside here, but I'm not as fussed as to what we get for Baker.

Am I shattered to lose him? Absolutely, and WC fans will see why very soon. He's one of those players that does the little/team things that don't result in a personal stat but result in a positive team outcome. And, it gets missed by oppo fans when they "rate" a player. I'm sure you could name me several "undervalued" WC players that don't get the credit they deserve, and you wouldn't swap if you had the choice. Well, that's Bakes.

He's also an outstanding citizen, and he completed his contract, so I do nothing but wish him well. And I look forward to watching him in the coming seasons. Nothing but love here.

Richmond (unlike clubs like Essendon and Geelong) have an excellent comp wide reputation for being great to deal with and for getting things done with a minimum of fuss. I expect that with Baker/WC. What that is? Who knows, but I won't be losing sleep over it. Let's hope both sets of fans are upset, because that means the price is about right.

But gee I hope we dig our heels in on Rioli and Bolton, because long term contracted players are a different kettle of fish. You tie up the main magnets on the board long term, and fill in around that. If those players then want to cut and run, there needs to be a price.

 

[Barrybran]

The trouble is though that your reality looks like being 13 (plus something back for Baker) So you're only left with 3-23, in my mind that's not enough 1st round picks for you guys. How then do you maximise your draft hand, given that the Tigers wont give up 6 & ? for pick 3. There's no other club that has the assets to give you 2 x top 10 picks this year and if you split it for a 1st this year and an F1 then you're pushing into a compromised and possibly weaker draft next year. Does 9 & Baker sound better than 10 & Baker for pick 3?

Is 9-13-23 better than 3-23?

No. FWIW, I wouldn't give up pick 6 for 3 either if I'm Richmond but I'm not giving up 3 for 9 or 10 if I'm West Coast. Go back two years and we split 2 for 8 and 12. There's your starting point.

 

[Barrybran]

This sent shivers down my spine as a Dimma-ism I heard one too many times, lol.

I'm going to put a lot of Tiges offside here, but I'm not as fussed as to what we get for Baker.

Am I shattered to lose him? Absolutely, and WC fans will see why very soon. He's one of those players that does the little/team things that don't result in a personal stat but result in a positive team outcome. And, it gets missed by oppo fans when they "rate" a player. I'm sure you could name me several "undervalued" WC players that don't get the credit they deserve, and you wouldn't swap if you had the choice. Well, that's Bakes.

He's also an outstanding citizen, and he completed his contract, so I do nothing but wish him well. And I look forward to watching him in the coming seasons. Nothing but love here.

Richmond (unlike clubs like Essendon and Geelong) have an excellent comp wide reputation for being great to deal with and for getting things done with a minimum of fuss. I expect that with Baker/WC. What that is? Who knows, but I won't be losing sleep over it. Let's hope both sets of fans are upset, because that means the price is about right.

But gee I hope we dig our heels in on Rioli and Bolton, because long term contracted players are a different kettle of fish. You tie up the main magnets on the board long term, and fill in around that. If those players then want to cut and run, there needs to be a price.

Baker is a very good player but not a great player. We already have one of those guys as well, ironically also named Liam. Fact is, we wouldn't get a first for Duggan, as valuable as he would be to a premiership contender.

I think your best chance at overs is Gold Coast though I think they should look at their hand and start looking after themselves a little better. They can do so much better with pick 6 than Rioli.

Freo have four first rounders over the next two drafts and are in a unique position to be able to overpay while still being able to being in high end talent.