What about the principle involved? The Brisbane board in their arrogance has obviously decided that the passage of time entitles it to disregard the agreement. It's in everyone's interests that those making such decisions are called to account.
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Lions Logo Battle Hits Court
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What about the principle involved? The Brisbane board in their arrogance has obviously decided that the passage of time entitles it to disregard the agreement. It's in everyone's interests that those making such decisions are called to account.
It's an interesting theoretical suggestion. Of course the AFL refused to allow Fitzroy to place a team in the VFL back in 1997 as they desperately wanted to shore up Brisbane's support and hoped to do so by retaining as many supporters as possible in the merged entity. Now that the Brisbane administration appears to have grown tired of maintaining a Victorian supporter base, it may well serve their interests to initiate a divorce, so to speak. But that will not happen.
Did it entail having you're board replaced by... who? Your board in boardshorts?
You're right, it's not the time or place. You just couldn't resist slipping it in though, could you?
And what could you not resist, dear kettle? Our old board, whether wearing board shorts or not, would not have had a presence on a Gold Coast Kangaroos board, which was always going to be run by Gold Coaster John Witheriff. And that's as it should have been. Who in their right mind would retain a board clearly incapable of overseeing the running of a professional football club?
Now back to the issue at hand... I cannot see how this divisive tactic from the Brisbane Lions administration is serving the best interests of the football club. I get Jeff Dunne's point about supporters harming the club through their actions. But can Jeff appreciate the terrible PR fiasco the club is mired in thanks in no small part to a very poor choice of words from its legal counsel?
Run for the Board, Von Wafer.
Heck, run for CEO.
You are a sensible and logical person.
Any chance you may sit on the Supreme Court of Victoria bench?
Oh, and jiphoc, every business which signs a legally binding document must adhere to the terms of that document. You can't sign up to something and then just change your mind because it no longer suits your purpose.
As an example to the layperson, if you buy a heritage listed home, which has been deemed to have intrinsic value above and beyond bricks and mortar (aka. the Fitzroy Lion in the logo), it is implicit in that purchase that you agree to be bound by any limitations which are placed on your ability to develop that home, in order to preserve something seen as important (aka. clause 7.2 (c) in the Merger Agreement), even if you believe your proposed changes would increase the home's market value (aka. appeal to the Qld market).
It may be frustrating for you if you want to whack on a next extension and get rid of the wrought iron facade, but if you are legally bound to NOT DO SO, then you can't just ignore things because it suits your purpose.
At the very least, you'd surely apply to the local council for permission to change things....wouldn't you?
Apparently there's no heritage listed buildings in Qld, otherwise Michael Bowers would've known he had to seek council permission to make the changes he pushed through without consultation.
The Deen Brothers say hi.
Hollow Knight
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lionroar
Team Captain
Yeah, I am sure the club wouldn't try to spin some story to not look bad.
I'm only going by what was printed in the newspapers. Still, to try and take the two bits from a club that makes **** all isn't good.
I am sure our old administration didn't have the best of intentions, they were looking for ways to save the club, I don't think much of the old admin and am not making any excuses for their incompetence.
But this current administration is full mostly of good people and they would have honoured the spirit of the merger and would have corrected any short-falling of the old administration.
I just think the comments of the Brisbane lawyer were measured and expressed the mindset of the current Brisbane administration.
After all this time they still don't consider Fitzroy a part of them. For all the spin Hore Lacey gave for his reasons to side with the Brisbane merger because he wouldn't have a spot in the new administration how many Fitzroy people have a voice in the running of the club? I don't think he and the Fitzroy board did the Fitzroy supporters any favours bending over for the AFL's, Brisbane's and the administrator's agenda.
They are trying to kill them financially so they can't stay in court and win what is an obvious case.
I think all the Fitzroy people want is for them to honour the agreements they made and signed off on. That isn't too much to ask, is it?
If they think that agreement they signed will hurt them financially then they should go back to the table and work out what compromise Fitzroy would accept for whatever changes they desire.
Brisbane just tries to steam-roll and disrespect the Fitzroy people.
JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
Brisbane have done a far better job preserving the Fitzroy legacy than I gave them credit for at the time of the merger. Can't see any other potential merger would have come close in preserving the mascot, colours, song, etc. (including the North merger)
I reckon if Fitzroy supporters were being totally honest they'd agree.
I reckon if Fitzroy supporters were being totally honest they'd agree.
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And that's the issue - until now, Brisbane have held up and represented Fitzroy in almost the best way they could. Until now. Now they are changing one of the major links back to Fitzroy, the logo that had been in use since 1965 or thereabouts.
Exactly. The logo has been about since 1965. What do you think the chances of Fitzroy still having that logo if they had not merged? I would think very very small. So now that they have merged why the anger? A lot of clubs are changing logos to move on with the times and improve the clubs image. IMO the people who are opposing this are just getting in the way of a successful club moving on and improving their brand off football both on and off the field. Keeping the old logo will have NO ADVANTAGE IN THE LONG TERM. However the new logo will enable the club to better attract new young supporters who at the end of the day are the future of the club.
Still can't see how this legal action is good for the Brisbane Lions or the old Fitzroy. To me it seems like Fitzroy supporters are keen to hurt the Brisbane Lions financially. Who wins in this court battle? Costs??? Go Lions....
invinciBlues
Norm Smith Medallist
You're welcome at North mate, where plenty more of your displaced brethren have found a home.
In fact, it's an honor to have Fitzroy people at our club.
Its pretty disgusting the way north supporters whore themselves out to try and get more members
- Moderator
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Hore-Lacy has never sided with the Brisbane merger. He opposed it in 1996, and opposes it now.
However you may be referring to the incident in the merger discussions in 1996, where North tried to change previously agreed arrangements about the constitution of any new North-Fitzroy board, which clearly maximised North's position on any merged board. Hore-Lacy, quite rightly, wasn't having any of that. So that Fitzroy would have a fall back position, if the North-Fitzroy merger fell over, he re-opened merger negotiations with the Bears. Of course as soon as North heard about the renewed discussions with the Bears, any niggling merger disagreements were settled fairly quickly and negotiations with the Bears were ceased.
Hore-Lacy's stated preference was for a merger with a Melbourne based AFL club and North Melbourne was the preferred merger partner. However he was also intent on preserving as much of Fitzroy's identity as possible.
Once again, I don't understand this comment. Once the administrator was appointed, Hore Lacy and the rest of the Fitzroy board had no power over what was to happen to the Fitzroy Football Club. Control of the club was only returned to the Fitzroy directors in 1997, when the administrator had discharged the debt to the secured creditor. The merger agreement prevents Fitzroy taking legal action against the AFL to this day.
What would you have had the Fitzroy directors do?
Yep. Of course they are.
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The sad thing is that, we as a club have said our membership in Melbourne is dwindling and we go into court with a QC who inflames the situation with the very members we do have in Melbourne.
We are a disgrace.
We are a disgrace.
I do believe that Brisbane have failed in two key ways over the whole logo issue.
Firstly the new Lion, especially the front on look, is third rate. Its foul and it will not last.
Secondly, they have failed to make the case that the new lion is an update of the original. Lion in profile, paw on the ball.... they are going to claim it is the Fitzroy lion updated. They should be proclaiming this lion (even if they dont believe it) is the Fitzroy lion for the 21st century. They should be saying that they will never disrespect the Lion heritage.
However, they seem to want to move away from the Fitzroy link to forge something that is more local. Worried by the "genuine" QLD team that will playing on the Gold Coast soon they want to hang on to the local support, make it more exclusively Brisbane, even if that is at the expense the Fitzroy fans.
Ask yourself this.... what Lion was on the front of the Jumper that won three Brisbane premierships in a row? Being on the other end of two of those premierships I know that if it was me I would never dump That Lion (Brisbane or Fitzroy). That Lion is the most critical visual emblem from those premiership victories - only morons would fail to appreciate that, unfortunately that is what is what the club has got.
Firstly the new Lion, especially the front on look, is third rate. Its foul and it will not last.
Secondly, they have failed to make the case that the new lion is an update of the original. Lion in profile, paw on the ball.... they are going to claim it is the Fitzroy lion updated. They should be proclaiming this lion (even if they dont believe it) is the Fitzroy lion for the 21st century. They should be saying that they will never disrespect the Lion heritage.
However, they seem to want to move away from the Fitzroy link to forge something that is more local. Worried by the "genuine" QLD team that will playing on the Gold Coast soon they want to hang on to the local support, make it more exclusively Brisbane, even if that is at the expense the Fitzroy fans.
Ask yourself this.... what Lion was on the front of the Jumper that won three Brisbane premierships in a row? Being on the other end of two of those premierships I know that if it was me I would never dump That Lion (Brisbane or Fitzroy). That Lion is the most critical visual emblem from those premiership victories - only morons would fail to appreciate that, unfortunately that is what is what the club has got.
Hollow Knight
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Like I said, it was a very understandable mixup in the end. When the Lions receive a cheque addressed to the BRISBANE LIONS FC from an estate, what do you expect them to do?
Blame the administrator of the estate who decided to interpret the will as Fitzroy FC = Brisbane Lions.
The jumper/logo issue is a disgrace, but I am not going to blindly condemn the club on everything, especially when I know the facts.
Blight von Torp
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I agree the current jumper can't last. Not only does it get rid of the Fitzroy Lion, but it trashes the clean line of the old yoke.
TBH, when the Brisbane Lions jumper first came out, I wasn't a fan of the Lion on the front. I thought it was tacky, just like North Melbourne playing in that stupid kangaroo emblazoned jumper, or what Western has today with their Bulldog face.
So I just can't understand the mentality of those who went for the comic character on the new jumper.
If it was me, I would go back to a monogram. I reckon they look alright ... and saying that is hard because Carlton give monograms a bad name.
Changing the FFC monogram to BFC and making them look similar would be pretty easy. Then Brisbane would look like a real football club and the Fitzroy history would be even more preserved. The monogram and jumper is what I remember from them, not the Lion.
TBH, when the Brisbane Lions jumper first came out, I wasn't a fan of the Lion on the front. I thought it was tacky, just like North Melbourne playing in that stupid kangaroo emblazoned jumper, or what Western has today with their Bulldog face.
So I just can't understand the mentality of those who went for the comic character on the new jumper.
If it was me, I would go back to a monogram. I reckon they look alright ... and saying that is hard because Carlton give monograms a bad name.
Changing the FFC monogram to BFC and making them look similar would be pretty easy. Then Brisbane would look like a real football club and the Fitzroy history would be even more preserved. The monogram and jumper is what I remember from them, not the Lion.
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And I'm going to disagree with you there. If they kept the lion for 31 years without changing it, I don't see how it is a small chance they would keep it for the next 15 or so. It is part of the club, a symbol that is now one of the major identifiers of the club - why on earth would you want to get rid of it?
In what way is this improving the brand? The majority of Brisbane supporters believe the new logo to be inferior to the last one, and the new jumper to be inferior to the last one. As for 'moving on'... well, if they want to 'move on' from the history of not only the Fitzroy component, but also the Brisbane component of their club (particularly the jumper 3 premierships were won in), then they stand to lose a fair chunk of their membership base, not to mention their supporter base. Any administration that basically says "our supporter base in a certain geographical area, particularly one with quite a clear connection to the club, is vanishing and therefore irrelevant", needs to be removed, and soon.
Really? I doubt you entice young supporters with stupid and cartoon-like jumper designs, and, even if you do, such a superficial connection is hardly going to last, especially when they're old enough to realise how stupid the desigin is.
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Its pretty disgusting the way north supporters whore themselves out to try and get more members
In what way is this "whoring out" the club? Krakeour Magic simply made an invitation to any disillusioned Fitzroy supporters to come and join a club many others disillusioned from the merger had already found a home at. What the hell's wrong with that?
In response to those that say that Fitzroy supporters should let Brisbane do whatever it can for marketing purposes / Fitzroy would have changed their logo if they still existed, I say this:
- I don't mind Brisbane having a second logo for marketing purposes or even wearing a cartoonish jumper for say 6 matches a year - although they have nowhere near proven that it was financially worth it to do what they have done. Increased member numbers in Brisbane will come from nothing more than on-field success.
- If Fitzroy still existed and we absolutely believed (based on a comprehensive business plan, not some CEO's word) we had to change our logo to survive, then Fitzroy supporters would cop that. However we gave up almost everything in the merger. The Fitzroy Lion was one of the few things we didn't give up. It is one of the very few links to Fitzroy we have left. That is why we will fight tooth and nail to make sure it remains. I want to see future generations of Lions supporters have that connection with Fitzroy. I don't want to see it striped away piece by piece by marketing gurus.
Brisbane have released their clash strip today: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...e-clash-guernsey/story-e6frf9io-1225839587483
You would think the club would listen to it's supporters after the release of the the new jumper, but obviously not.
You would think the club would listen to it's supporters after the release of the the new jumper, but obviously not.
