Lions vs Cats vs Hawks - Which dynasty is the best?

[Hawkk]

Keep blowing your own trumpet all you like but any neutral looking at those match ups would award the points to the Lions.

Hawks back line simply isn't as good and Lynch, Brown, Bradshaw and Ackermanis would rip the Hawks a new one being fed by that midfield. Gibson wouldn't be allowed to zone off like he does against weaker forward lines.

Voss wins v Hodge.

The rucks isn't even a fair contest.

Go compare that Lions side against the teams the Hawks have beat in the GF. If you can't join the dots you don't know much about football. How does the Freo forward line compare to the Lions? What about the Eagles midfield v Lions? And that Lions team doesn't "not turn up" like the Swans did.

Hawks won three flags against opposition who were not even in the same league as that Lions side.

Pretty amazing to think Hawthorn has already won more flags (4 to 3), made more GFs (5 to 4), more games, had a significantly better for / against and actually won some minor premierships (2012-13 v 0)

So Hawthorn had the vastly superior record despite having the inferior team...am I missing something?

 

[Hawkk]

Which one is you?

So that Lions forward line wouldn't kick three more goals than Freo did?

I dunno but I definately know that the Hawthorn side wouldnt limp over the 2002 Collingwood side or get belted by 7 goals by the 2004 Power

 

[Scotland]

Pretty amazing to think Hawthorn has already won more flags (4 to 3), made more GFs (5 to 4), more games, had a significantly better for / against and actually won some minor premierships (2012-13 v 0)

So Hawthorn had the vastly superior record despite having the inferior team...am I missing something?

The only thing you can deduce from Hawthorn's 2008-15 record is that Hawthorn are the most successful team over that period.

It's not really relevant to a 'who would win?' hypothetical as it doesn't take into consideration strength of opposition etc.

 

[Pessimistic]

Perspective says that even if a team were clearly in third place in this discussion, theyre still a damn fine team with an excellent record

 

[jonesy233]

I think the most dominant out of all the aforementioned was Brisbane. But if they all played each other during their prime in a round robin, it would be a smashing in Hawthorn's favour....

 

[beta_condition]

The only thing you can deduce from Hawthorn's 2008-15 record is that Hawthorn are the most successful team over that period.

It's not really relevant to a 'who would win?' hypothetical as it doesn't take into consideration strength of opposition etc.

It does matter more than anything else, since the two teams will never face each other you can only go on the stats in front of us, during the Brisbane era they were never minor premiers that's a fact, they were never the best team over a course of a season so how can you say they would beat Hawthorn.

B: Chris Johnson Mal Michael Darryl White
B: Ben Stratton Brian Lake Brent Guerra

HB: Luke Power Justin Leppitsch Nigel Lappin
HB: Shaun Burgoyne Josh Gibson Grant Birchall

C: Jason Akermanis Michael Voss (c) Martin Pike
C: Isaac Smith Sam Mitchell Jordan Lewis

HF: Ashley McGrath Jonathan Brown Robert Copeland
HF: Luke Breust Lance Franklin Cyril Rioli

F: Craig McRae Alastair Lynch Daniel Bradshaw
F: Paul Puopolo Jarryd Roughead David Hale

Foll: Clark Keating Simon Black Shaun Hart
Foll: Max Bailey Brad Sewell Luke Hodge (c)

Int: Jamie Charman Blake Caracella Marcus Ashcroft Richard Hadley
Int: Liam Shiels Jack Gunston Bradley Hill Jonathan Simpkin

 

[dean31]

It does matter more than anything else, since the two teams will never face each other you can only go on the stats in front of us, during the Brisbane era they were never minor premiers that's a fact, they were never the best team over a course of a season so how can you say they would beat Hawthorn.

B: Chris Johnson Mal Michael Darryl White
B: Ben Stratton Brian Lake Brent Guerra

HB: Luke Power Justin Leppitsch Nigel Lappin
HB: Shaun Burgoyne Josh Gibson Grant Birchall

C: Jason Akermanis Michael Voss (c) Martin Pike
C: Isaac Smith Sam Mitchell Jordan Lewis

HF: Ashley McGrath Jonathan Brown Robert Copeland
HF: Luke Breust Lance Franklin Cyril Rioli

F: Craig McRae Alastair Lynch Daniel Bradshaw
F: Paul Puopolo Jarryd Roughead David Hale

Foll: Clark Keating Simon Black Shaun Hart
Foll: Max Bailey Brad Sewell Luke Hodge (c)

Int: Jamie Charman Blake Caracella Marcus Ashcroft Richard Hadley
Int: Liam Shiels Jack Gunston Bradley Hill Jonathan Simpkin

Despite the fact that the Lions team were assembled by AFL headquarters I still think the Hawks play a more selfless and better team game and have less passengers. Hawks bottom 6 players are better than the Lions so that with the team work would get them the win over the lions.

 

[Pessimistic]

above is true, we only made two changes from '14 to '15 lions made six from '02 to '03

 

[Scotland]

It does matter more than anything else, since the two teams will never face each other you can only go on the stats in front of us, during the Brisbane era they were never minor premiers that's a fact, they were never the best team over a course of a season so how can you say they would beat Hawthorn.

H&A results are a means to an end in the AFL. Yes minor premierships are nice, but they don't actually mean anything - otherwise people would talk about Port Adelaide in the early 2000s as an era. They don't.

I mean Hawthorn finished 3rd this year and had to play their QF and PF in Perth. Didn't stop them recovering from a loss to WC to beat Freo in the PF then back it up to beat WC in the GF to win the flag. Ignoring our abysmal showing in the GF, I'd say that should rate as highly if not higher than finishing 1st and having an easy run to the GF. To travel to Perth twice, lose a QF and have a SF in Melbourne, travel back to Perth to beat the top team then win a GF is something that will take a while to replicate. Hawthorn did it because they have a strong team of hardened finals players. During the season they also beat WC in Perth, smashed Freo in Launceston and demolished Sydney in Sydney. Still finished 3rd, but that sent a pretty strong message.

How can I say Brisbane would beat Hawthorn? Easily. It's a hypothetical so my opinion is just that.

Voss, Black, Lappin, Power, Akermanis + Lynch, Bradshaw, Brown with Brisbane's back 6 is an exceptional side. I think at their best they were better than Hawthorn, even if Hawthorn's record is better. I think Brisbane would've had little trouble against Freo 13 or WC 15 etc.

 

[beta_condition]

Voss, Black, Lappin, Power, Akermanis + Lynch, Bradshaw, Brown with Brisbane's back 6 is an exceptional side. I think at their best they were better than Hawthorn, even if Hawthorn's record is better. I think Brisbane would've had little trouble against Freo 13 or WC 15 etc.

Why did they struggle against a very average Collingwood?

 

[HawkMongrel]

I just love that we're in this conversation at all.

 

[Smooth Banana]

I have really enjoyed this meltdown. To top it off, our threepeat has thrown Geelong out of the conversation.

Thread should be changed to Hawks or Brisbane

Maybe we can start a new thread:

Geelong or Adelaide (back to back)

 

[Smooth Banana]

I think the most dominant out of all the aforementioned was Brisbane. But if they all played each other during their prime in a round robin, it would be a smashing in Hawthorn's favour....

So Brisbane were more dominant but would lose to Hawks?
Some great logic there mate

Like u said, if it was both teams playing at their best Hawks would smash Brisbane. The game has changed considerably in 10 years.

Brisbane team of champions, Hawks champion team.

Last I checked it was a team sport

 

[thebarry111]

I have really enjoyed this meltdown. To top it off, our threepeat has thrown Geelong out of the conversation.

Thread should be changed to Hawks or Brisbane

Maybe we can start a new thread:

Geelong or Adelaide (back to back)

And yet we beat hawthorn side 10 times on the trot. What an amazing side that geelong team was.

 

[Hawkk]

And yet we beat hawthorn side 10 times on the trot. What an amazing side that geelong team was.

Bookended by the 2008 GF and 2013 PF (which gifted Hawthorn 2 of our 4 flags in this era)

The Kennett curse was the ultimate troll. Watch this and you realise just how meaningless those games really were



With the benefit of hindsight its really quite pathetic

1989 GF (Hawks flag)
1991 SF (Hawks flag)
2000 EF
2008 GF (Hawks flag)
2013 PF (Hawks flag)
2014 QF (Hawks flag)

May as well throw in round 22 1987 and 2002 for the win (games that knocked the Cats out of finals contention in the final round)

In retribution the Cats did get one over us that lead to the 2011 flag though (QF 2011)

'When it matters'

 

[thebarry111]

Bookended by the 2008 GF and 2013 PF (which gifted Hawthorn 2 of our 4 flags in this era)

The Kennett curse was the ultimate troll. Watch this and you realise just how meaningless those games really were

Nothing better than watching Hawks fans melt down during that period. You can't argue with facts. 10 wins on the trot makes that team far superior. Sad that period is gone, those games were amazing.

 

[Smooth Banana]

And yet we beat hawthorn side 10 times on the trot. What an amazing side that geelong team was.

When it matters, we beat you.

Does not matter if u beat us 20 on the trot, we beat you in finals.

You realise flags are won in September right?

I'm not gonna give you all the stats, you would know them by now.

You remember the 2013 Prelim final yes, where we came back and ripped your soul out. Remember? That game alone has brought me all the happiness I need. We crushed that Geelong spirit and you guys still haven't recovered.

Since then you got knocked out in straight sets 14 and didn't make finals in 15.
Since then we have won 3 flags. Every flag since that match.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it brother

 

[Hawkk]

Nothing better than watching Hawks fans melt down during that period. You can't argue with facts. 10 wins on the trot makes that team far superior. Sad that period is gone, those games were amazing.

I dunno

We won 5 flags in 25 years (89, 91, 08, 13-14) due to the Cats spudding it up when it matters

 

[thebarry111]

When it matters, we beat you.

Does not matter if u beat us 20 on the trot, we beat you in finals.

You realise flags are won in September right?

I'm not gonna give you all the stats, you would know them by now.

You remember the 2013 Prelim final yes, where we came back and ripped your soul out. Remember? That game alone has brought me all the happiness I need. We crushed that Geelong spirit and you guys still haven't recovered.

Since then you got knocked out in straight sets 14 and didn't make finals in 15.
Since then we have won 3 flags. Every flag since that match.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it brother

Reality is you tried your best and that's all you can ask for. We were the better side and that's all that matters. Emotional how good our team was. Big deal Hawks won a few flags in a time when footy has been weakend by expansion teams coming in. Need to cull two teams. Standard of footy had dropped massively.

 

[Hawkk]

Reality is you tried your best and that's all you can ask for. We were the better side and that's all that matters. Emotional how good our team was. Big deal Hawks won a few flags in a time when footy has been weakend by expansion teams coming in. Need to cull two teams. Standard of footy had dropped massively.

But when it matters Hawthorn has won 6 of the 7 finals games between the clubs which has led to 5 flags to 1

Ultimately it is Geelong spudding up September which seperates Hawthorn (13 VFL/AFL flags from 19 GFs, 4 flags from 5 GFs since 2007) from Geelong (9 VFL/AFL flags from 18 GFs, 3 flags from 4 GFs since 2007)

When it matters and all that

 

[thebarry111]

But when it matters Hawthorn has won 6 of the 7 finals games between the clubs which has led to 5 flags to 1

Ultimately it is Geelong spudding up September which seperates Hawthorn (13 VFL/AFL flags from 19 GFs, 4 flags from 5 GFs since 2007) from Geelong (9 VFL/AFL flags from 18 GFs, 3 flags from 4 GFs since 2007)

When it matters and all that

Love to stay and argue but have to head to the bar. Wait till you discover alcohol and girls. They're amazing.

 

[brew]

Hawthorn premiership on average every 7 years.

Yep.... bestest

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

Hawks the best dynasty.
Geelong at their peak was a better team.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawks the best dynasty.
Geelong at their peak was a better team.

Yet the hawks beat them in a granny at their peak, and geelong then went on a run of wins v the hawks

Quite an anomoly

 

[Roddy]

Yet the hawks beat them in a granny at their peak, and geelong then went on a run of wins v the hawks

Quite an anomoly

And the Hawks of '13-14 would beat the Hawks of 08 by 5 goals +