Lions vs Cats vs Hawks - Which dynasty is the best?

[STFU Donnie]

When did I ever say those seasons were included in Geelong's dynasty discussion?

When did I say you did?

Your "dynasty" ended some years ago, as amply evidenced by the two most recent seasons. The Hawks' dynasty is vey much still continuing. Any discussion as to superiority should probably wait.

Oh, and Back. To Back. To Back.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

When did I say you did?

Your "dynasty" ended some years ago, as amply evidenced by the two most recent seasons. The Hawks' dynasty is vey much still continuing. Any discussion as to superiority should probably wait.

Oh, and Back. To Back. To Back.

Well we're in a thread designated to dynasty discussion and you proceeded to post 2 years that hasn't previously been mentioned in Geelong dynasty discussions in this thread. Now that you mention it...

Yes, so did our dynasty ended this year? 8 years in total?, or 5 if you prefer to discount every year since our last premiership. That's open for debate. Hawthorn are 3 years in. Win next year and the weight of numbers are too large to argue against... you're the best. Until then... the winner is Geelong.

 

[dean31]

And Geelong gain points for longevity?

Not a chance, 3peat is far superior and the longevity is questionable as the Hawks journey is not yet over 2007-2011 is 5 years. Hawks have already matched that 2011-2015 is also 5 years. 1 prelim, 1 GF loss and 3 GF wins. Longevity is now proven to be equal. Hawks win due to 3 peat and it's not even close.

To win back to back years is extremely hard, hence why the Cats were not good enough to do so. Back to back wins result in reduced pre seasons, more teams focusing on your game style (been the hunted) player retention due to salary cap constraints, players market value and opposition looking to poach talent.

Throw on top of all this the massive amount of coaching talent the Hawks have had poached from them over the past 6 years and it's undeniable that the Hawks are greater.
Hawks also beat Geeloning at their absolute peak in 08 with a much weaker team than 2012-15 team.

 

[STFU Donnie]

Well we're in a thread designated to dynasty discussion and you proceeded to post 2 years that hasn't previously been mentioned in Geelong dynasty discussions in this thread. Now that you mention it...

Yes, so did our dynasty ended this year? 8 years in total?, or 5 if you prefer to discount every year since our last premiership. That's open for debate. Hawthorn are 3 years in. Win next year and the weight of numbers are too large to argue against... you're the best. Until then... the winner is Geelong.

Back. To Back. To Back.

trumps

Flag. Squib. Flag. Flogging. Flag.

 

[dean31]

Well we're in a thread designated to dynasty discussion and you proceeded to post 2 years that hasn't previously been mentioned in Geelong dynasty discussions in this thread. Now that you mention it...

Yes, so did our dynasty ended this year? 8 years in total?, or 5 if you prefer to discount every year since our last premiership. That's open for debate. Hawthorn are 3 years in. Win next year and the weight of numbers are too large to argue against... you're the best. Until then... the winner is Geelong.

Agreed we will go with 8 seasons as you have suggested and as your now happy to include not making the finals in your dynasty. Hawks 2008-2015 that's 8 seasons 5 grandfinal appearances for 4 wins. With a 3peat.

Geelong 3 GF wins.
4>3
Hawks>Geelong
Hawks also gave Geelong a touch up in 2008 GF. Hawks now undisputed champion.
I'm glad you now understand.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Agreed we will go with 8 seasons as you have suggested and as your now happy to include not making the finals in your dynasty. Hawks 2008-2015 that's 8 seasons 5 grandfinal appearances for 4 wins. With a 3peat.

Geelong 3 GF wins.
4>3
Hawks>Geelong
Hawks also gave Geelong a touch up in 2008 GF. Hawks now undisputed champion.
I'm glad you now understand.

2007-2014 is 8 years with finals every season... ends that longevity debate.

8 years with 3 flags trumps 3 years with 3 flags.

 

[dean31]

2007-2014 is 8 years with finals every season... ends that longevity debate.

8 years with 3 flags trumps 3 years with 3 flags.

8 years with 4 flags and 1 missed final series trumps 3 flags in 8 years.

Just consulted the Poll for this thread Geelong come in last vs Hawks and Lions.

 

[SSSSSS]

Geelong were a great side but always lacked the mental strength to back up successive flags. It's a mental struggle to continually strive to be top dog with everyone hunting you which only a few of the truly immortal sides (Brisbane and Hawthorn) can accomplish. Geelong for all their dominance did not have the fortitude to accomplish such a feat.

Geelong does not and should not feature in this discussion of the best dynasty in the modern era. Like the past 4 years Geelong have merely been making up the numbers.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

8 years with 4 flags and 1 missed final series trumps 3 flags in 8 years.

Just consulted the Poll for this thread Geelong come in last vs Hawks and Lions.

Absolutely not unless you're a supporter of rewarding mediocrity.

 

[SSSSSS]

To put it into perspective. Our worst ever Premiership side in terms of list quality absolutely embarrassed the greatest Geelong side of all time on the biggest stage.

Surely that stings.

 

[dean31]

Absolutely not unless you're a supporter of rewarding mediocrity.

Wow you are really a delusional piece of work. Gotta be a troll or 12 year old. Where's all your fellow Geelong supporters backing your lunacy up? .............
That's right no where to be seen, their embarrassed that you follow the same team.

Any person that would describe 4 flags in 8 seasons as mediocre needs some serious help. What's the word of choice for 3 from 8?

4>3

 

[dean31]

To put it into perspective. Our worst ever Premiership side in terms of list quality absolutely embarrassed the greatest Geelong side of all time on the biggest stage.

Surely that stings.

Well said. Loved that game and especially the Stuart Dew, Cyril Rioli cameos.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Wow you are really a delusional piece of work. Gotta be a troll or 12 year old. Where's all your fellow Geelong supporters backing your lunacy up? .............
That's right no where to be seen, their embarrassed that you follow the same team.

Any person that would describe 4 flags in 8 seasons as mediocre needs some serious help. What's the word of choice for 3 from 8?

4>3

When all else fails resort to personal attacks.

I take it you're one of those extra 40 odd thousand supporters who jumped on at/or after 08. More than doubled your supporter base in that time.

 

[STFU Donnie]

Someone in this thread continually mentions "mediocrity" and "longevity."

Since his teams last flag, these are the finals results of that team.

2012: P1, L1
2013: P1, L1
2014: P2, L2
2015: --

In that same time, the team he declares to be inferior has the following finals record:

2012: P3, W2
2013: P3, W3 - Premiers
2014: P3, W3 - Premiers
2015: P4, W3 - Premiers

Only one of these qualifies as "mediocre."

And only one satisfies the criteria for "longevity."



I suggest we leave him be in his special world. He seems to be happy there.

 

[dean31]

When all else fails resort to personal attacks.

I take it you're one of those extra 40 odd thousand supporters who jumped on at/or after 08. More than doubled your supporter base in that time.

Wrong again troll. Was born into going for the Hawks as that was my dads team so no choice really and surely no regrets as they are hands down the best and most successful team in my 33 years of existence. Become a member as soon as I could afford it and have been a member for 17 consecutive years. Became a Kennedy club member in 2009 as I couldn't get a GF ticket that 2008 GF you enjoyed so much have been a Kennedy club member ever since and have been to 3 of the past 4 GF's.

 

[Obeanie1]

The Hawks have dominated a competition with 18 teams, the 2 expansion teams have hoarded the talent for the last five seasons after the Hawks list had set themselves up nicely. Pretty difficult for any side in partial rebuild to develop a side to rival them over that period especially with FA coming in and the Hawks tapping into that nicely.

The Lions built their list in a 16 team comp with no FA freebies and sustained it with no expansion teams taking all the talent. So the opposition had more talent to draft and play against them.

Lions had three Brownlow medalists, seriously good KP forwards (Brown, Lynch and Bradshaw) and backs and importantly dominant rucks. And they were hard and mean.

Head to head Lions would win and win easy IMO.

 

[SSSSSS]

I still don't understand how FA has any bearings on our flags. We lost a once in a generation player for James Frawley. If there was no FA Sydney would have had to pay through their nose to land Buddy.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Someone in this thread continually mentions "mediocrity" and "longevity."

Since his teams last flag, these are the finals results of that team.

2012: P1, L1
2013: P1, L1
2014: P2, L2
2015: --

In that same time, the team he declares to be inferior has the following finals record:

2012: P3, W2
2013: P3, W3 - Premiers
2014: P3, W3 - Premiers
2015: P4, W3 - Premiers

Only one of these qualifies as "mediocre."

And only one satisfies the criteria for "longevity."



I suggest we leave him be in his special world. He seems to be happy there.

Lol. Again pulling out years where Geelong didn't win the premiership. Selective stats used again.

Consecutive finals series played:

Geelong - 8
Hawthorn - 6

Consecutive finals played after initial premiership

Geelong - 8
Hawthorn - 3

Even when it comes to longevity you don't have a leg to stand on.

And we already know Geelong's finals record was superior... I produced that table a little earlier for special occasions such as this.

 

[dean31]

Lol. Again pulling out years where Geelong didn't win the premiership. Selective stats used again.

Consecutive finals series played:

Geelong - 8
Hawthorn - 6

Consecutive finals played after initial premiership

Geelong - 8
Hawthorn - 3

Even when it comes to longevity you don't have a leg to stand on.

Grand finals won Hawks 4 Cats 3
3 peat a lot more significant than longevity. In 50 years are people going to remember Geelong 8 straight final series? No they are going to remember Hawks 4 GF wins and a 3 Peat.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Grand finals won Hawks 4 Cats 3
3 peat a lot more significant than longevity. In 50 years are people going to remember Geelong 8 straight final series? No they are going to remember Hawks 4 GF wins and a 3 Peat.

So you keep saying... and I keep discounting 08 for obvious reasons.

The old fall back when you know your valiant attempts to make yourself believe you had the superior side fall by the wayside and despite what the key indicators suggest.

 

[STFU Donnie]

Consecutive finals played after initial premiership

Geelong - 8

Nope.

 

[dean31]

The Hawks have dominated a competition with 18 teams, the 2 expansion teams have hoarded the talent for the last five seasons after the Hawks list had set themselves up nicely. Pretty difficult for any side in partial rebuild to develop a side to rival them over that period especially with FA coming in and the Hawks tapping into that nicely.

The Lions built their list in a 16 team comp with no FA freebies and sustained it with no expansion teams taking all the talent. So the opposition had more talent to draft and play against them.

Lions had three Brownlow medalists, seriously good KP forwards (Brown, Lynch and Bradshaw) and backs and importantly dominant rucks. And they were hard and mean.

Head to head Lions would win and win easy IMO.

Free agent freebies?? Shows how little you understand. Hawks have lost out big time in free agency.
Hawks lost to free agency
Franklin
Suckling
Ellis
Young
Murphy

Hawks gained through free agency just 1
Frawley.

So yeah I can see how you losing players would have benefited Brisbane. Lose Jonathan Brown get pick 19? I see how that would have helped the Lions.

This is why I don't rate the Lions. You could have coached that team.

Here is just a few of the draft concessions (Gifts from the AFL) that Brisbane received while still the Bears. Michael Voss, Darryl White, Marcus Ashcroft, Jason Akermanis and Clark Keating. Just a couple Brownlow medalists, with 1 of them been perhaps the best player in Fitzroy/Brisbane history. Along with a heap of other key players. They had free unchallenged pick of the entire States of QLD, NT and numerous zones in Victoria and other places.
The Brisbane bears also benefited from a merger Chris Johnson (not the twins became a 2 time AA) and then trading of Fitzroy players that they gained for free netted them Mal Michael and Martin Pyke.
Despite already having ludicrous draft concessions to offset what I'm about to mention the merger allowed Brisbane to draft Jonathan Brown under father son, so with the players already listed and a father son pick lets now all except that the merger was extremely beneficial.

This merger also occurred directly after the Brisbane Bears team finished the 1996 season in 3rd. Imagine this for a scenario? GWS with all their stacked young talent you mentioned finished 3rd next year and then they merge with the bottom team on the ladder, pick over their bones to take who they want, have an extended playing roster to accommodate, trade players they don't want for others and gain father son selections. Throw on top of that a PHAT salary cap. Congratulations you've created an all conquering monster. Sorry to once and for all remove the Lions from this debate. Word has it the Lions have to share their premiership cups with AFL headquarters.

Hawks did it the hard and honest way. Success bought is not the same as success earnt.
Hawks hands down Greatest

 

[dean31]

So you keep saying... and I keep discounting 08 for obvious reasons.

The old fall back when you know your valiant attempts to make yourself believe you had the superior side fall by the wayside and despite what the key indicators suggest.

Why would you be discounting 2008? That was the year the Cats were at their absolute peak of their powers, their finest and most dominant season. The season they lost to a weak Hawks team. Yeah the Cats were great.

 

[dean31]

Why would you be discounting 2008? That was the year the Cats were at their absolute peak of their powers, their finest and most dominant season. The season they lost to a weak Hawks team. Yeah the Cats were great.

 

[dean31]

So you keep saying... and I keep discounting 08 for obvious reasons.

The old fall back when you know your valiant attempts to make yourself believe you had the superior side fall by the wayside and despite what the key indicators suggest.

Key indicators say.....
4>3