List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[Brishawk]

Leather poisoning would say other wise

Bnf results suggest he is playing the role given to him by the coaches

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Bnf results suggest he is playing the role given to him by the coaches

Some one had to win it and he had very little competition due to form or injuries.

Listening to Sam, i think we will see Toms playing style change. Sam seems to be more happy with 20 quality possessions that make an impact, than 44 possessions and half of them being junk.

 

[Stratton24]

Looks like he is still in WA holidaying going by his IG. Perhaps Sam has seen him weighed down as well and told him to take an extended break. Wonder if he wanted a trade to WA when all the rumours were circulating.

He did not

 

[TheFourPillars]

JOM was at training today

 

[Pessimistic]

Petracca and Oliver just spearheaded a super dominant flag win. Miller broke the record for most games in a row over 30 touches.

Mitchell no doubt a good midfielder but a rung below the very best mids with his end of 2021 form. And a rung below that from his start of 2021 form.

in our top years all our mids were described as second rung. Even Sammy had to go to west coast before the media discovered he was top line

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

His averages post bye were around:
36-37 touches
13-14 contested possies
18 kicks 19 handballs (there abouts)
74% DE
0.7 goals a game i think
6 ish score involvements
450-500 metres gained
6 ish clearances
6 ish tackles
4.5-5 inside 50s.

So a few stats a little lower or a little higher, it's similar.

Apart from contested possessions & clearances. His just not a damaging player.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Apart from contested possessions & clearances. His just not a damaging player.

So apart from the main part of his game as an inside mid? LOL

He was kicking goals to go with his contested game, helping defense, tackling, running well and just being elite.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Yes even after the bye. I didn’t have him in the top rung.

I feel very comfortable saying he overpolled in the second half of the year compared to his output infield and relative to other players in the league.

I have him rated alongside Miller and Macrae with his form in the second half of the year. All a rung below the top mids.

Plus I will say I also don’t think his form in the back half of this year equalled his Brownlow from either in a 4 week stretch Mitchell had 43, 46, 42 and 43 possessions alongside 5 goals as well as starting the year with 50, 40 and 42 with 3 goals. In 22 H and A games he hit 40+ disposals 11 times. He only hit this mark 4 times this year. With only 2 being post bye.

I’m on the record about not wanting Mitchell to have a ton of disposals but let’s not make out like his 2021 equals his 2018 form.

He was more consistent post bye 2021 than at times in 2018. It's why his post bye avg disposals is higher because he wasn't having high and lows it was just all pretty high, even tho his 2018 season is still unbelievable.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Leather poisoning would say other wise

Sam was a ball magnet and was also a team player.

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

So apart from the main part of his game as an inside mid? LOL

He was kicking goals to go with his contested game, helping defense, tackling, running well and just being elite.

You understand why teams don't tag him, cause I asked Sam Mitchell at their 2020 pre-season out on the ground during a drill, who would he tag if he was an opposition coach & he said Jaeger or Worpel. I asked why not Titch & he explained that he's not as damaging as Jaeger & he's been out so may take him awhile to catch up.

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

He is ;0

He's definitely got better at it, I've been apart of Hawks pre-seasons, camps & gameday... Titch was alot about himself & not enough about the team, but he has improved in that area, including leadership aswell. Still has abit to go to catch up to players that do really play as a team.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You understand why teams don't tag him, cause I asked Sam Mitchell at their 2020 pre-season out on the ground during a drill, who would he tag if he was an opposition coach & he said Jaeger or Worpel. I asked why not Titch & he explained that he's not as damaging as Jaeger & he's been out so may take him awhile to catch up.

I don't understand, because he was tagged haha. He was tagged against Geelong and ridden like a bad smell there was a few others if you really want me to check for you.

And that's just a joke, Worpel is a very similar player, will be a more modern type player and same with Jaeger but **** me i'm tagging Titch, stop the ball flow from the source, stop him as the middle man and extracting it and it makes it hard for us. Alot of the games we get smashed in the middle Titch is performing below his standards or in a different role.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

He's definitely got better at it, I've been apart of Hawks pre-seasons, camps & gameday... Titch was alot about himself & not enough about the team, but he has improved in that area, including leadership aswell. Still has abit to go to catch up to players that do really play as a team.

Titch is in the leadership group, was a vice captain and stiff to not be captain (Jaeger aswell) before McEvoy.

He's most def a team player, his role is to be an extractor to his teammates ffs and to link the play with his teammates, to help his teammates and so on.

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

I don't understand, because he was tagged haha. He was tagged against Geelong and ridden like a bad smell there was a few others if you really want me to check for you.

And that's just a joke, Worpel is a very similar player, will be a more modern type player and same with Jaeger but fu** me i'm tagging Titch, stop the ball flow from the source, stop him as the middle man and extracting it and it makes it hard for us. Alot of the games we get smashed in the middle Titch is performing below his standards or in a different role.

They actually had two negating players on that day.

Worpel came out of B&F year and he & O'Meara shared the load in clearances & averaged the same as Mitchell & O'Meara did the year before. It's either Mitchell or Worpel, I'd be picking Worpel because he's younger & we are transitioning through a rebuild.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

They actually had two negating players on that day.

Worpel came out of B&F year and he & O'Meara shared the load in clearances & averaged the same as Mitchell & O'Meara did the year before. It's either Mitchell or Worpel, I'd be picking Worpel because he's younger & we are transitioning through a rebuild.

Geelong sent O'Connor (after eating Neale alive) to Mitchell who had been worn all day, still managed to play a pretty decent game which was fine since O'Meara had the game of his life in the middle since Titch ended up taking O'Connor out of the centre square at times and ran him around.

Mitchell is my pick as the number one mid, till Worpel can develop to anywhere close, literally what we did late in the year where Worpel played MID-FWD with Wingard and was kicking a goal a game to go with like 25 touches a game, till he got injured in that Pies game.

Mitchell dominated and Jaeger also played super well playing a more outside role, pushing forward and overall just the workrate from Jaeger and Mitchell, Worpel being able to play a good role and work hard while you had Wingard in a natural role and Nash/Newcombe the bash bros. Add into the fact we've got Ward who i'm a huge huge fan of, Ned Long, Sam Butler (MID-FWD) and Connor MacDonald who i am also a huge fan on to go with Finn Maginness.

Future is bright, the present for 2022 looks bright. It just seems all up. To go with the fact we have 0 injuries and everyone's fit (Probably Jinxed now.)

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

Titch is in the leadership group, was a vice captain and stiff to not be captain (Jaeger aswell) before McEvoy.

He's most def a team player, his role is to be an extractor to his teammates ffs and to link the play with his teammates, to help his teammates and so on.

He wasn't vice Captain last year... He didn't extract the ball enough & one half of high standard footy is not enough when you're moving through a transition stage with our list where young midfielders need the exposure to the AFL level. One should be dropped to improve our midfield balance, if Mitchell comes out firing next season & gets the clearances, who cares if you get 30+ touches, cause handballs back & forward to a teammate and doesn't advance the ball means nothing. Neither does handballing to someone under pressure.

I've had exposure of inside the Hawthorn walls, so all you're talking about is you going off is what you've seen from the outside. How do you know his role...?

 

[CHUBBSS]

Apart from contested possessions & clearances. His just not a damaging player.

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

Geelong sent O'Connor (after eating Neale alive) to Mitchell who had been worn all day, still managed to play a pretty decent game which was fine since O'Meara had the game of his life in the middle since Titch ended up taking O'Connor out of the centre square at times and ran him around.

Mitchell is my pick as the number one mid, till Worpel can develop to anywhere close, literally what we did late in the year where Worpel played MID-FWD with Wingard and was kicking a goal a game to go with like 25 touches a game, till he got injured in that Pies game.

Mitchell dominated and Jaeger also played super well playing a more outside role, pushing forward and overall just the workrate from Jaeger and Mitchell, Worpel being able to play a good role and work hard while you had Wingard in a natural role and Nash/Newcombe the bash bros. Add into the fact we've got Ward who i'm a huge huge fan of, Ned Long, Sam Butler (MID-FWD) and Connor MacDonald who i am also a huge fan on to go with Finn Maginness.

Future is bright, the present for 2022 looks bright. It just seems all up. To go with the fact we have 0 injuries and everyone's fit (Probably Jinxed now.)

Cats pitched Guthrie to O'Meara & Jaeger smashed him.

The issue is Worpel can't develop his inside game more with Titch not sharing. There is mo point in building our midfield game plan off a midfielder that won't be there in 5 years time.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

He wasn't vice Captain last year... He didn't extract the ball enough & one half of high standard footy is not enough when you're moving through a transition stage with our list where young midfielders need the exposure to the AFL level. One should be dropped to improve our midfield balance, if Mitchell comes out firing next season & gets the clearances, who cares if you get 30+ touches, cause handballs back & forward to a teammate and doesn't advance the ball means nothing. Neither does handballing to someone under pressure.

I've had exposure of inside the Hawthorn walls, so all you're talking about is you going off is what you've seen from the outside. How do you know his role...?

Him and Jaeger have been vice captains i'm 90% sure, he's also been in the leadership group for a little bit.

He had a very very slow start to the game, had less than 10 at half time i think but he and the rest of the mids exploded second half and he had 14/15 after HT (still below his standards) and it opened up the game with his gut running to release the other mids.

No, wtf Jaeger, Worpel and Titch are locks. Don't make me ever see you mention otherwise.

He got them post bye and was one of the best in the comp. (Btw if you have it 30+ times a game, the oppo doesn't )

Handballs that create space are useful, if you actually played footy you'd know this, he's elite in so many ways, the way he runs to open the ground, help out defense, push forward, create pressure, be elite at the contest and adding it all together will get him his disposals. He's kinda the give it to him and get a release of pressure to open it up.

Handballing to someone under pressure is an overrated thing in footy, people blame the person who handballs it but when you play you know it's, first option and voice. If someone is screaming for it you'll likely get it which sometimes the player won't know if they are about to be tackled which is why voice is good, pre bye it was inconsistent but post bye the way we moved the ball in this sense was awesome to watch.

Cool mate, i know his role because i watch him every week and have since he debuted. I watch way too much footy, i also talk to alot of people who are either in the walls at Hawthorn or have talked to them. Also just watching pre season aswell with the way the players are training.

His role is clear. Like many.

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

If you think he is... Then you're clearly biased as damaging is MaCrae, Petracca, Oliver, Bont.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Cats pitched Guthrie to O'Meara & Jaeger smashed him.

The issue is Worpel can't develop his inside game more with Titch not sharing. There is mo point in building our midfield game plan off a midfielder that won't be there in 5 years time.

Because Guthrie is way too small to deal with Jaeger, he's also not a tagger he's shit at it. He's an outside ball winner linking player not a tagger. Like when North asked ****ing Jared Polec to tag someone HAHA

Worpel and Titch need to be the two main inside mids, it teaches Worpel and we don't drop heaps. It gives Jaeger a more balanced role and Worpel/Titch can spend time forward like they did post bye which then opens it up for other mids.

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

Him and Jaeger have been vice captains i'm 90% sure, he's also been in the leadership group for a little bit.

He had a very very slow start to the game, had less than 10 at half time i think but he and the rest of the mids exploded second half and he had 14/15 after HT (still below his standards) and it opened up the game with his gut running to release the other mids.

No, wtf Jaeger, Worpel and Titch are locks. Don't make me ever see you mention otherwise.

He got them post bye and was one of the best in the comp. (Btw if you have it 30+ times a game, the oppo doesn't )

Handballs that create space are useful, if you actually played footy you'd know this, he's elite in so many ways, the way he runs to open the ground, help out defense, push forward, create pressure, be elite at the contest and adding it all together will get him his disposals. He's kinda the give it to him and get a release of pressure to open it up.

Handballing to someone under pressure is an overrated thing in footy, people blame the person who handballs it but when you play you know it's, first option and voice. If someone is screaming for it you'll likely get it which sometimes the player won't know if they are about to be tackled which is why voice is good, pre bye it was inconsistent but post bye the way we moved the ball in this sense was awesome to watch.

Cool mate, i know his role because i watch him every week and have since he debuted. I watch way too much footy, i also talk to alot of people who are either in the walls at Hawthorn or have talked to them. Also just watching pre season aswell with the way the players are training.

His role is clear. Like many.

Nah, it was just Jaeger VC last season.

We can't play O'Meara, Worpel & Mitchell be the midfield or we will have the same issue we did for half the season. with Jaeger the only one with pace. Nash/Newcombe were the point of difference. Worpel needs to hunt, but he & Mitchell are not quick enough to be the main two.

It isn't hard to defend for an oppo if they have O'Meara, Mitchell & Worpel starting, as they're average kicks. Team worked us out last season by trying to set up to stop our attacks from half back.

We need a point of difference in the middle that has class.

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

Because Guthrie is way too small to deal with Jaeger, he's also not a tagger he's sh*t at it. He's an outside ball winner linking player not a tagger. Like when North asked ******* Jared Polec to tag someone HAHA

Worpel and Titch need to be the two main inside mids, it teaches Worpel and we don't drop heaps. It gives Jaeger a more balanced role and Worpel/Titch can spend time forward like they did post bye which then opens it up for other mids.

Nah rather Jaeger & one of them be the clearance guys, cause Worpel & Mitchell aren't quick enough.

 

[CHUBBSS]

If you think he is... Then you're clearly biased as damaging is MaCrae, Petracca, Oliver, Bont.

you just took away an inside midfielders whole game by saying if he doesn't get clearances or contested ball. Hence the aneurysm meme

Whether he is a damaging player or not is directly related to clearances and contested possessions... because he is that player.

But hey maybe you rate forwards on not the amount of goals and assist they kick just meters gained

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

you just took away an inside midfielders whole game by saying if he doesn't get clearances or contested ball. Hence the aneurysm meme

Whether he is a damaging player or not is directly related to clearances and contested possessions... because he is that player.

But hey maybe you rate forwards on not the amount of goals and assist they kick just meters gained

Those boys are way more balanced than Mitchell, they can with their own ball & can dispose of efficiently & damaging. Mitchell's outside game isn't elite. His inside game when he's going is elite, and I'd choose him over Worpel... But I do feel having too many inside midfielders isn't great for our balance.