- Oct 17, 2011
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- Hawthorn
Yeah i'm not as fussed with his kicking when he goes short, its the long ones that get me. He's just done way too many of them this year for my liking haha
List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022
- Thread starter Strapping Young Lad
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chopflop
Premiership Player
- Nov 15, 2020
- 3,301
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- Hawthorn
So is wingard really OOC?
He wouldn't be a free agent then? So if he wants to move does it need to be a trade?
He wouldn't be a free agent then? So if he wants to move does it need to be a trade?
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
No, you’re incredibly wrong about Jordan Lewis. I would take a prime Jordan Lewis over a prime Tom Mitchell every day of the week. If for no other reason that he could play more than one position and fill more than one need in a side. Being that you’d have literally been a kid living in another state when Lewis was doing his best work you’re really not fit to claim what you did.
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
Correct, correct and correct.
It's all about overall team workrate.
If there's no obvious short option he has to go long and as we know he can't really help the fact he kicks it as high as he does, but at my club we usually have a "bail out" and we are instructed to kick it high to them so they can A. Mark, B. Bring it to ground or C just make a contest without it being intercept and rebounded. This has to include blokes at ground level hunting aswell, it's frustrating watching it all because i know exactly what needs to happen.
Obviously he's not a great kick but there's two kicks i think he does well, short kicks (short 45s.) and kicks to leads, i find the air on his kick makes it easier to mark and he usually gives it enough space in front for the forward to lead onto.
MATE HAHAHAHAHA
Jordan Lewis has never produced Brownlow quality football like Tom did for as long as he did.
It's a fact, though Lewis is a different type of player and he was extremely versatile.
But if you're talking about someone at their best, it's not close and that's not a pour down on Lewis, he was a great player in a great team. But Tom's best is elite.
I'd have both in the side, i can only imagine what Tom would do with the outside runners we had and to add him with Sam, Lewis and Hodge (mid rotation). Even Silk in there.
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
Yeah you never saw enough of Jordan Lewis at his best so you’re not in a position to make the judgement.
And Lewis’ 2014 season was absolutely Brownlow-level form. It’s hard to get votes however when you’re playing in a side with as many champion players as we had in that era. There’s no way known Mitchell would have displaced Jordan Lewis in that side.
Peak Sam was better than peak Tom. Jordan Lewis won a BnF in a premiership year in the same side as Sam.
Tom has been great but he has his flaws.
I think you are underselling Jordan here
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In your opinion.
Think you oldies forget that footage is rewatchable, but go on!
And in 2014 i wasn't that young at all lol.
I don't think Lewis would've been the spot Mitchell took, Titch is at his elite best when he's playing as a pure inside mid, Lewis was versatile, but like most of our side was.
And Lewis was very good in 2014, but again i don't think his quality was ever Brownlow good like Tom was in 2018.
And you make a good point re getting votes in a stacked team, it's why our B&F every year was so hot and no one really knew who would win it.
TM is/was not as influential in games as his stats suggest. Everyone was wowed by his numbers at the time. A bit similar to Terry Wallace in the 1980s. Broke all the disposal records, won media awards. Then you look back and go, hey we had heaps of more influential and effective players (Wallace was better also than TM). There is not a single person outside of Hawthorn supporters who would rate TM as a champion. Go back and watch JL in our premiership years, particularly the GFs, he was an absolute A grader. TM as never played a better gam ethan JL's 2014 GF (one vote off the Norm). Underrated, and a better footballer than TM, over a much longer period.
If we were going into a GF, I would take JL over TM.
Sixpence
Brownlow Medallist
I'd kill for Lewis' toughness, leadership and foot skills in our midfield right now!
(On another note, my phone auto corrected foot skills to foreskin. That could've been awkward if I didn't catch it!)
Jordan Lewis was very good player, great even. But his quality never reached that level imho.
Tom as a pure inside mid is next level. The reason both Lewis and Sam were so good was their versatility inside and outside and having a balance.
Lewis was a very underrated kick, and as everyone knows Sam is one of the best dual footed kicks ever.
And that again, Sam won a brownlow but that year wasn't as good as Tom in 2018, I think everyone here is underselling Tom, often do.
Especially talking about his 2018 season, it was ridiculously good.
Sam was so great because he was good every year with an elite level of consistency and an unreal amount of balance, he was tough and hard and a really smart inside mid but he also had elite ball skills.
This thread feels massively derailed lol
Jordan Lewis isn't coming back onto our list, and Titch is a long way off his 2018 form. Arguing about who is better at their peak probably deserves a joke/less serious thread as as much as I love the insights, I don't think these arguments are all that interesting.
Jordan Lewis isn't coming back onto our list, and Titch is a long way off his 2018 form. Arguing about who is better at their peak probably deserves a joke/less serious thread as as much as I love the insights, I don't think these arguments are all that interesting.
Nah, it's often people here underrate how good he was in 2018. If people wanna go after him for his lack of impact even the year before that and since his broken leg go for it, but in 2018, he was extremely good.
He had games in 2018, a couple actually where he had 40 and 2 goals. His first three games of the season were ridiculous against Collingwood, Geelong and Richmond.
This video is an awesome watch, a real good explanation of it!
Haha that would've been Hawkward
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
Oh good lord. We know you love Tom - but he scored two more votes overall than Sam’s 2013 haul that season and had no other player to contend with in getting votes whereas Sam had Rioli, Franklin, Hodge and Lewis among others. I don’t care how many highlight reels and YouTube clips you’ve watched - Tom Mitchell can’t lay a finger on Sam Mitchell.
My god, the amount of Mitchell bashing that goes on here is next level.
People must have short memories. Anyway let's move on, it's too off topic!
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
Saying that Tom Mitchell isn’t close to being as good as Sam Mitchell isn’t bashing him - it’s just common sense. There’s a good deal of very good midfielders who’ll never be as good as Sam Mitchell - it’s not an insult to them it’s just how bloody incredible Sam was.
Nah you're just off, and there's no point aruging it anymore. I could go in depth into it and why, but again this is not what the thread is for.
arupist
Premium Platinum
And Tom is a fair way behind Lewis, too.
- Banned
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Why the **** to people feel the need to now bash Tom against legends of our club? Its never ending... Dom is Dom, its not an excuse...
The pile on in here against Tom is disgusting.
You can be fine with trading him as I am, but three time Crimmins deserve more respect than this crap from fans.
The pile on in here against Tom is disgusting.
You can be fine with trading him as I am, but three time Crimmins deserve more respect than this crap from fans.
Sixpence
Brownlow Medallist
Why the **** do you feel the need to bash Wingard at every opportunity?
Sixpence
Brownlow Medallist
Mate, Tom for pick 16 was a steal. But you're comparing him to some of our best ever midfielders. Sam, Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne ... Our midfield is crying out for just one player like any of those 4.
Saying that is not Tom bashing.
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