List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022

[VernonSpots]

And this is why I still have reservations around Franklin. Enjoyed the scenes over the weekend and I am not foaming at the mouth over him - but the way he left will never sit right with me. As much of a flog on the field as Dangerfield is - he didn't get Geelong to structure a deal that would fu** over Adelaide and they eventually got a trade done. I know Pickering and the Swans masterminded that deal and Buddy is just a dense footy player who signs paperwork, but I can only imagine if he said "hey Pickers I don't want Hawthorn to get screwed here" then we could have all dealt in good faith once the shock died down. Hell - Sydney may have not even endured the loss of COLA and draft penalties for being campaigners.

Yeah but to avoid hawthorn getting screwed, it would mean he accepts less money. Sydney offered him that contract knowing it would not cost them any draft or player assets in a trade.

Why should he, and his Manager acting in his best interests, do that?

 

[theiaofseed]

Hawthorn need to pick up a Ruckmen that can step in and play for boxhil at the very least, Oliver Eastland is worth a look.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Shame we likely won't be near pick 1 The athletic ruckman to “keep an eye out” for in lead up to the mid-season draft

 

[Davo-27]

Shame we likely won't be near pick 1 The athletic ruckman to “keep an eye out” for in lead up to the mid-season draft

he is still skinny and raw, so wont be ready straight away, but he does have some skill from his debut for Sandringham Dragons, rookie draft and MSD historically are the best places to recruit developing rucks.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Why did we not grab an extra ruckman to play at BHH and have them on our supplementary COVID list when we had a chance? It is ridiculous that Kosi and Callow are having to do the rucking at BHH.

 

[James Buchanan]

Shame we likely won't be near pick 1 The athletic ruckman to “keep an eye out” for in lead up to the mid-season draft

He certainly fits our core profile - serious runners.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[FB19]

Reckon cashion has a big say in it; not to mention Sicily helping out all goes into the mix.

AFLW List Manager Mitch Cashion talks us though the signing
AFLW List Manager Mitch Cashion talks us though the signing

I agree with that the team do a great job with what they have, but the omeara and wingard trades hurt badly. that’s not hindsight it was clearly massive overs at the time for a guy who hadn’t played for years, with Chad I understand why but 2 picks and Ryan burton (our only first rounder for ages) was crazy don’t know why we didn’t wait a year and get chad as a free agent or would have been happy to risk losing him to the dogs. I like both players to be clear but we lost a lot getting them and a few more 20-22 year old talents would have us in great shape.

 

[mustang]

Callow and Long haven't put a foot wrong and look promising but I can see why they went so late in the draft, however as for Serong he presents so well into space and his set shots are rock solid, fair to say I'm pretty keen on this one.

Hopefully Serong comes on as a Gunston replacement and if it brings his brother home to our club to play with him or the better for us great bonus.

 

[Topiary]

I agree with that the team do a great job with what they have, but the omeara and wingard trades hurt badly. that’s not hindsight it was clearly massive overs at the time for a guy who hadn’t played for years, with Chad I understand why but 2 picks and Ryan burton (our only first rounder for ages) was crazy don’t know why we didn’t wait a year and get chad as a free agent or would have been happy to risk losing him to the dogs. I like both players to be clear but we lost a lot getting them and a few more 20-22 year old talents would have us in great shape.

Hindsight is a wonderful concept, but I agree now, the examples above appear as poor List Management. We clearly over rated these players and undervalued Draft picks. The last bit the part that hurt the most.

All that said, what is done is done, it can’t be changed, we have to move on, we now must secure from here, more good selections like Warde and McDonald, and luck out and be shrewd with selections like Newcombe. We have to do our best to get more selections and use FA/Trading wisely.

No more trading of first rounders without proper Board scrutiny, not rubber stamping.

 

[Sixpence]

I agree with that the team do a great job with what they have, but the omeara and wingard trades hurt badly. that’s not hindsight it was clearly massive overs at the time for a guy who hadn’t played for years, with Chad I understand why but 2 picks and Ryan burton (our only first rounder for ages) was crazy don’t know why we didn’t wait a year and get chad as a free agent or would have been happy to risk losing him to the dogs. I like both players to be clear but we lost a lot getting them and a few more 20-22 year old talents would have us in great shape.

As far as Wingard goes, we didn't lose nearly as much as you think we did (if anything at all). Have a look at the 2018 draft, it wasn't stacked with talent. Duursma was the best choice at that pick, the second round pick ended up being Tom Joyce who hasn't played a single game, beyond him there's no standout players that I'd be concerned about missing out on. In the same trade period, we got Scrimshaw for next to nothing, who is an improvement on Burton.

The Wingard trade has not hurt us!

 

[play2win]

Assessing the value of the Tom/JOM/Chad trades must consider their age profile and the gap in our list profile that needed filling. As such, who were the other available players within that age range that we missed out on that would be better than them? If we didn’t fill this age profile back then our list would be so much harder to manage going forwards.

 

[Teamwork Talks]

Why did we not grab an extra ruckman to play at BHH and have them on our supplementary COVID list when we had a chance? It is ridiculous that Kosi and Callow are having to do the rucking at BHH.

Poor list management

 

[CHUBBSS]

Hindsight is a wonderful concept, but I agree now, the examples above appear as poor List Management. We clearly over rated these players and undervalued Draft picks. The last bit the part that hurt the most.

All that said, what is done is done, it can’t be changed, we have to move on, we now must secure from here, more good selections like Warde and McDonald, and luck out and be shrewd with selections like Newcombe. We have to do our best to get more selections and use FA/Trading wisely.

No more trading of first rounders without proper Board scrutiny, not rubber stamping.

I think hindsight will show the failed strategy allowed us to bottom out properly and still having some senior leaders at the club, not ideal but we are where we are. Exciting times ahead

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Don't really think it is bad list management.

We are not winning the flag or contending this year. Having Lynch or Reeves ruck solo entire games accelerates their development.

Don't really care if Box Hill doesn't have a ruck, surely they can grab some beanpole from Vermont or Blackburn

 

[TheFourPillars]

Reeves at the moment is long way behind in terms of endurance. In saying that he has come a long way since he first started. Each pre season has seen an improvement.

 

[Pessimistic]

List management has an element of luck

We got Burgoyne in the latter part of his career after about age 28, and lost Rioli before he was much older than 28

The happy coincidence is we got valid parts of these guys careers, simultaneously

It’s an extreme case, but shows you can’t slot ages neatly into some ‘rebuild strategy’. Each individual recruitment has its own comparison to the recruitment opportunities at the time

 

[Lickmesocks]

As far as Wingard goes, we didn't lose nearly as much as you think we did (if anything at all). Have a look at the 2018 draft, it wasn't stacked with talent. Duursma was the best choice at that pick, the second round pick ended up being Tom Joyce who hasn't played a single game, beyond him there's no standout players that I'd be concerned about missing out on. In the same trade period, we got Scrimshaw for next to nothing, who is an improvement on Burton.

The Wingard trade has not hurt us!

Except for the 700k per year we could be using on someone else.

 

[Pessimistic]

Reeves at the moment is long way behind in terms of endurance. In saying that he has come a long way since he first started. Each pre season has seen an improvement.

Young for a ruckman, as is Lynch. It’s a compromise we have made to tale more openings to mid yer draft ot national draft

That’s why it’s surprising we don’t have a journeyman on the covid supp list. It’s a free hit essentially, were all our rucks to be injured

 

[TheFourPillars]

Except for the 700k per year we could be using on someone else.

Who? and its not like we have salary cap pressure. In fact we generally have pressure trying to pay 95% at this stage

 

[PenAndPaper]

Poor list management

I wouldn't think that having 3 genuine ruckmen on our list is bad list management. No team is expecting their #1 ruck to miss an extended period due to a neck fracture as well as their 3rd ruck getting a concussion and then covid in succession.

It also opens something for us to get a MSD ruck anyway.

 

[TheFourPillars]

This discussion brings me back to Sicily and the media pressure I am sure instigated by his manager to get him a pay day. I am not sure we will go more than 5 years and this is just a hunch so it will be interesting

 

[Bardo State]

Don't really think it is bad list management.

We are not winning the flag or contending this year. Having Lynch or Reeves ruck solo entire games accelerates their development.

Don't really care if Box Hill doesn't have a ruck, surely they can grab some beanpole from Vermont or Blackburn

But now Kosi and Callow are spending half their time in an unnatural position that they will never play at AFL level.

Kosi only came into his own with consistent time up forward. Callow was showing promise behind the ball last year.

Now that goes out the window to be out-tapped, chasing stoppages and running into other ruckmen's knees for half a game.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I wouldn't think that having 3 genuine ruckmen on our list is bad list management. No team is expecting their #1 ruck to miss an extended period due to a neck fracture as well as their 3rd ruck getting a concussion and then covid in succession.

It also opens something for us to get a MSD ruck anyway.

I'm not saying it's poor list management - but the reality is coming in to the season we had one mostly cooked and two completely unproven rucks on the list.

 

[RJL Hawk]

As far as Wingard goes, we didn't lose nearly as much as you think we did (if anything at all). Have a look at the 2018 draft, it wasn't stacked with talent. Duursma was the best choice at that pick, the second round pick ended up being Tom Joyce who hasn't played a single game, beyond him there's no standout players that I'd be concerned about missing out on. In the same trade period, we got Scrimshaw for next to nothing, who is an improvement on Burton.

The Wingard trade has not hurt us!

We tend to forget that the Wingard trade cost us Burton plus 2 chances to roll the dice in the 2018 draft.

And because each draft only has limited talent, especially from the late 1st round onwards, it cost us a very small chance to get 2 good to great players, and a very big chance to get 2 average to poor players.

Through the whole of 2012-2015 we were pretty unlucky and only landed 3 good to great players; most were average to poor, which meant that by the end of 2018 the bottom end of our best 22 was pretty weak.

That's why the Wingard trade and the whole strategy of the time was probably a miscalculation. Due to the poor returns from 2012-2015, there just wasn't enough depth to give him or the other top players a platform to shine.

So, with hindsight the correct move would probably have been to pass on Wingard (better for him, better for us) and instead roll the dice in the draft again, even with the low odds of getting good players.

But the good news is that in spite of that miscalculation we got incredibly lucky in 2016, 2017, and may still do well out of 2018. That plus more good fortune in 2019, 2020, 2021, suggests that the platform is close to being ready for another big Burgoyne like trade in next year or two. And it will probably work out well.