Looking ahead to 2024

[bungalow_bill]

Everyone else?

Sydney have improved. Pies - definitely with Shultz and McStay coming into their GF team.

For all Port have been linked with, I don’t see any of them making much difference at all.

Can’t say many teams have made significant improvements over the trade period. Adelaide, Carlton, GWS, GCS all likely to have the most scope for improvement out of all teams.

And we have Doedee Ashcroft & Payne coming into our grand final team. And there's Ryan who could be anything

 

[Mighty Lions]

Don’t believe he will be when Doodee is fit and available.


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Well only time will tell when that comes...probably around Round 16 onwards. Dizzy is highly regarded (understandably) and you have seen in the past how hard it is to demote a player who the team & coach's rate highly. Form over 16 Rounds will determine if anyone comes out of the back 6 or 7 in my opinion. Doodee is no automatic selection when fit...especially straight after an acl.

 

[Warwick]

Possibly. We tend to find a place for our recruits (especially the highly paid ones) pretty quickly.

 

[Berrygood]

Well only time will tell when that comes...probably around Round 16 onwards. Dizzy is highly regarded (understandably) and you have seen in the past how hard it is to demote a player who the team & coach's rate highly. Form over 16 Rounds will determine if anyone comes out of the back 6 or 7 in my opinion. Doodee is no automatic selection when fit...especially straight after an acl.

I kind of agree. I don't think Doedee is automatic either. I hope they treat him cautiously. 10 or 11 games when he is cleared to play may not be enough to see the best of him. There will be a period of time needed to get his confidence back in his knee, and his ability. Softly softly thru the ressies maybe. To be fit and firing and in form, to fully contribute to the team come finals time will be a big ask. If he gets back to a stage where he becomes next man in for injuries I'll be happy with his progress. To come back, slot straight in and perform to a GF level would be extraordinary.

Same could be said for Ashcroft too. A big ask to get back to where he was, in half a season, maybe less. He does have youth on his side, and an unwavering determination. But we may not see him back to his best either come finals.

I don't think we can just rely on these 2 players to improve our GF chances. They could both take a bit of time to reach 100%. I'm hoping they do but realistic enough to know they mightn't.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I kind of agree. I don't think Doedee is automatic either. I hope they treat him cautiously. 10 or 11 games when he is cleared to play may not be enough to see the best of him. There will be a period of time needed to get his confidence back in his knee, and his ability. Softly softly thru the ressies maybe. To be fit and firing and in form, to fully contribute to the team come finals time will be a big ask. If he gets back to a stage where he becomes next man in for injuries I'll be happy with his progress. To come back, slot straight in and perform to a GF level would be extraordinary.

Same could be said for Ashcroft too. A big ask to get back to where he was, in half a season, maybe less. He does have youth on his side, and an unwavering determination. But we may not see him back to his best either come finals.

I don't think we can just rely on these 2 players to improve our GF chances. They could both take a bit of time to reach 100%. I'm hoping they do but realistic enough to know they mightn't.

Agree 100%.
The other factor is how Gardners form is going at the time. I often see Dizzy's ( & a few other players) contribution to the team being significantly under rated on BF but his Team Mates & Coach have a very different regard for what he brings to the backline....It will be an interesting situation if/when it comes.

 

[twhowler]

Agree 100%.
The other factor is how Gardners form is going at the time. I often see Dizzy's ( & a few other players) contribution to the team being significantly under rated on BF but his Team Mates & Coach have a very different regard for what he brings to the backline....It will be an interesting situation if/when it comes.

Re Gardner it's an interesting one because we have competing Lions ideologies of A back in the player we like and rate versus B always making recruits best 22 players (at least in the beginning). I can't think of a single recruit who didn't get that chance. Even Cockatoo off pretty limited form in the 2s got a gig and plated finals.

Is there room for both? Would seem unlikely if Andrews and Payne are playing. Not many teams have anyone resembling a third tall to worry about. Andrews and Payne play a lot of minutes. So would be very strange to play 2 third tall types. Gardner could be lockdown and Doedee intercept at a stretch. But it makes us slower which is the opposite of our transition from 2022 to now when our backline has got so much more speed in it and ability to cover transition.

Anyway not a huge issue - cover is good to have. And Doedee coming off a knee.

 

[Berrygood]

Agree 100%.
The other factor is how Gardners form is going at the time. I often see Dizzy's ( & a few other players) contribution to the team being significantly under rated on BF but his Team Mates & Coach have a very different regard for what he brings to the backline....It will be an interesting situation if/when it comes.

His body is good, he'll get a good preseason into him, I think Gardiner will start the season the best he's been for years. He starts over Lester. He brings a bit of that cranky mongrel to the team, to the back 6. Starce will thrive off it. I think we forget how valuable Darcy was as a mainstay of our defense with Andrews for years. Plagued with injuries the last cpl of years. Now at 28 with a strong body, benchmark performances in the finals to work from, I think he can get back to his near best and really contribute not just keep the seat warm for Doedee.

I also read earlier here that Berry had been seen showing signs of shoulder surgery. I hope we go very cautious with him. I've felt he's been rushed back too early in the past, cops a setback, never heals properly and battles thru the season. There is absolutely no need to rush him back. Let him get 100%, give him the best chance to be his best this season. I think he's a best 22 player, bottom 6 of that 22 now but still in there. Like Darcy could really improve with a reliable body.

 

[KissKiss]

I admit I struggle to see Dizzy as a straight into the best 22, not because of how I rate him but more on the mix of roles in the back 6.

I dont think we can/should play all 4 of Andrews, Payne, Lester and Dizzy at the same time. For the talls Gardiner is maybe better defensively than Payne at this point (though I think Payne is developing great) but I want Payne's extra size in the team. So I see Dizzy competing then for the third spot. At the moment I think Lester offers a bit better intercepting and rebounding than Dizzy which is what I rate in the third spot a little more. So at the moment he is the one who drops out of a tall back spot on the "physical" make up of the back line. That is ignoring things like playing roles and following instructions which is so much harder to see from the outside.

Of course its a long off season and things will likely change over the pre-season pending who is fit and firing. And of course then over the season and once Doedee gets fit there's another player to see how they fit into the system

 

[On the quiet]

IMO there is, and always has been a question mark with Dizzy playing true lockdown role on the big boys, pre Adams. Don't doubt his competitiveness, but too short and gives aways frees and not heavy enough for the bigger full forward types nor arguably the 2m+ agile taller forwards. Pre Adams and Payne, on occasions, Andrews has had to match up on the Hawkins, the McKay the King types and has struggled at times when performing that 1 v 1 role, as opposed to intercepting. Yes I know there are 1 v 1 stats on Andrews, but as Mark Twain said, ...

Unless Payne regresses, or he takes some time to overcome his injury, he offers a number of options. I am pretty sure he did a pretty decent role on Jamie Elliot up at the GABBA early in the season. Not sure too many 100kg+ backs offer that flexibility.

FWIW Round 1-2024, I see a fit Dizzy picked ahead of Lester (sorry 3kz) Andrews and Paynes as the talls.

 

[BuntonRules]

I just think that, as a team, our needs have moved beyond Darcy. I say that with respect. When we were getting flogged, we needed a dour defender. To win a flag we need an intercept/ creative type. Both Ryan and Tom are in front of Dizzy, IMO.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I just think that, as a team, our needs have moved beyond Darcy. I say that with respect. When we were getting flogged, we needed a dour defender. To win a flag we need an intercept/ creative type. Both Ryan and Tom are in front of Dizzy, IMO.

Lester a long way back from a fit Gardner and I have no doubt Gardner will be selected well ahead of Lester come Round 1 "should he be fit". (thats the important words) ....Take that to the bank.

P.S. Who is Tom? Doodee?

 

[BuntonRules]

Lester a long way back from a fit Gardner and I have no doubt Gardner will be selected well ahead of Lester come Round 1 "should he be fit". (thats the important words) ....Take that to the bank.

P.S. Who is Tom? Doodee?

Each to there own.

P.S. Who doo you reckon, club expert?

tom doedee - Bing

 

[Big Sauce 21]

I'd prefer Lester.

 

[On the quiet]

Lester a long way back from a fit Gardner and I have no doubt Gardner will be selected well ahead of Lester come Round 1 "should he be fit". (thats the important words) ....Take that to the bank.

P.S. Who is Tom? Doodee?

'Mighty Lions' you also had Rich having a huge 2023, because apparently he had a good preseason. Things change. Agree a fit Dizzy is ahead of Lester come round 1, all things equal. But, if you have Dizzy as a lock best 22 for the year (your other posts have indicated this) then why did we get Tom D? and then we have Payne on a long term deal.

We have shown that when we target players they get a decent crack at it, so I expect Doedee to be playing best 22 when fit, approximately sometime after the bye.

 

[Nunez]

'Mighty Lions' you also had Rich having a huge 2023, because apparently he had a good preseason. Things change. Agree a fit Dizzy is ahead of Lester come round 1, all things equal. But, if you have Dizzy as a lock best 22 for the year (your other posts have indicated this) then why did we get Tom D? and then we have Payne on a long term deal.

We have shown that when we target players they get a decent crack at it, so I expect Doedee to be playing best 22 when fit, approximately sometime after the bye.

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

 

[mpal6]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

Dizzy would be an interesting pick to play defensive forward on say May or Aliir or Moore. He'll wrestle with them like his life is dependent on it.

We could trial him to play on opposition intercepting talls like what Gold Coast did to Andrews last year.

 

[Section 5]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

Don't see that happening even if one of Joe or Hippy went down.

 

[Nunez]

Don't see that happening even if one of Joe or Hippy went down.

Never say never.

 

[Nathan Barley]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

Watching Doedees strong marking in the highlist video did make me wonder what he would be like forward

 

[Section 5]

Watching Doedees strong marking in the highlist video did make me wonder what he would be like forward

Quite a few forwards in AFL do make a successful transition to defense.
It is going the other way that is far more difficult for players to adjust to.

I think a bit straighter running that is done by defenders will be better for his ACLs

 

[On the quiet]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

No I cant see it happening, but that said, there might be the odd game where I reckon Payne could be effective as a defensive type forward doing a role on Moore. BUT it will not happen, i think his cards are marked as under the goal post lock down role.

Also as mentioned by another poster, Dizzy could perform possibly a similar role. BUT very likely it will not happen

 

[Grasshopper17]

No I cant see it happening, but that said, there might be the odd game where I reckon Payne could be effective as a defensive type forward doing a role on Moore. BUT it will not happen, i think his cards are marked as under the goal post lock down role.

Also as mentioned by another poster, Dizzy could perform possibly a similar role. BUT very likely it will not happen

Payne's height would be wasted in that role. Just as key position defenders are quite often effective even against taller opponents, so would a defensive forward playing against a taller intercept defender.

It's why I think a guy like Callum Ah Chee would be well suited to the role.

 

[Scubaveg]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

Doodee forward?


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[martinson]

I don't see anything wrong with what Lester did this year.

I was surprisingly impressed.

 

[SizeMatters]

I don't see anything wrong with what Lester did this year.

I was surprisingly impressed.

I'd have Lester over Gardiner to be honest. We can't have two shutdown type defenders but Lester is a leader and actually improved his offensive game a lot. Gardiner is probably the slightly better defender but his go to kick is a backwards/sideways kick to Andrews a lot of the time.