Lovett Trades (merged thread)

[Ealesy]

This is a simplistic argument.

Lovett's worth may be greater to a specific club rather than to Essendon.

As an example - McLean will be traded to carlton for Pick 11. I doubt many if any other clubs would give pick 11, but Carlton obviously considers that he feels a specific need.

Another example - Jonathon Brown didn't finish in the top 5 in Brisbane's B and F in any of his first 6 years. Brown was obviously a gun player, and would have attracted two first round draft picks if traded - although he didn't feature prominently in B and F voting.

Results in B and F voting are not the only criteria used to determine's a players trade currency.

Another example, Matthew Lloyd, champion full forward, kicked 900+ goals, had 2 x 100 goal seasons, won 3 coleman medalls, 5 AA, yet the best he ever finished in the Essendon B&F is 2nd.

 

[The Donners]

All you are saying is that Brisbane is in a position to add a top-up player.

That does nothing to demonstrate that they'd go hard for Lovett.

How can you argue with your own B&F results?

It's akin to saying that your club doesn't know how to rate its own players.

Some Essendon fans reckon Lovett was one of their best few this year. But the people who run your club didn't think so. Who's opinion do you think carries more authority?

How about you use your own intelligence. He is unpopular with the players, the coaches and is up for trade for a second straight year. If you don't think this influences the match review panel in any way then your head is stuck firmly in the sand. You can call it unprofessional but I would call it human nature.

 

[Grimreepah]

How about you use your own intelligence. He is unpopular with the players, the coaches and is up for trade for a second straight year. If you don't think this influences the match review panel in any way then your head is stuck firmly in the sand. You can call it unprofessional but I would call it human nature.

I thought it was Lovett that wanted to leave. Essendon could have traded him last year for a 2nd round pick, but because he was contracted decided to keep him.

 

[The Donners]

I thought it was Lovett that wanted to leave. Essendon could have traded him last year for a 2nd round pick, but because he was contracted decided to keep him.

If there was a concrete 2nd round offer the deal would've been done, full stop.

I am of the understanding that Knights, during the end of season players review, informed Lovett that he would be put up for trade again and would not be offered another contract as this time Lovett was uncontracted. It sounds a lot saucier if "Lovett walked out on the club".

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

How can you argue with your own B&F results?

It's akin to saying that your club doesn't know how to rate its own players.

Some Essendon fans reckon Lovett was one of their best few this year. But the people who run your club didn't think so. Who's opinion do you think carries more authority?

You might need to read between the lines a little bit there.

Lovetts' goose was cooked at the start of the year when he got caught driving without a licence. There was no way known they were going to give him votes after that.

Why are you still in this thread when you've made it clear that the only way you can gauge a players true value is only after the fact. You'll need to wait till the end of trade week so stop wasting our time.

 

[Grimreepah]

If there was a concrete 2nd round offer the deal would've been done, full stop.

Geelong offered their 2nd round pick, but Knights decided to keep him.

It sounds a lot saucier if "Lovett walked out on the club".

Can't see how that would be any saucier than "Knights wants to get rid of Lovett".

 

[Grimreepah]

Lovetts' goose was cooked at the start of the year when he got caught driving without a licence. There was no way known they were going to give him votes after that.

What is Lovett's highest ever finish in the B&F?

 

[adii_7]

brisbane will give up there 1st rounder and riskitelli...

essendon will give up lovett and a packet of jelly beans.

 

[Ironmonger]

brisbane will give up there 1st rounder and riskitelli...

essendon will give up lovett and a packet of jelly beans.

Pretty confident thats not going to happen.

I'd be disappointed if he gave anything along with Risca for Lovett. Truth be told, I wouldn't be all that thrilled if we gave up Risca. He's a good player for us.

I'm not convinced Lovett would fit in all that well at the Lions.

 

[dave_27]

just take the jelly beans brisbane and shut up.

 

[thesmallprint]

 

[The Donners]

Geelong offered their 2nd round pick, but Knights decided to keep him.

Can't see how that would be any saucier than "Knights wants to get rid of Lovett".

Geelong couldn't fit him into their salary cap, I dare say Essendon weren't willing to subsidise Lovett's salary while he played at another club.

You're kidding me aren't you? Knights wanting to get rid of Lovett happened last year, if the papers went with the same story again after the failed attempt to move him on in the previous season would you buy the paper?

 

[whatboutbob]

Dons fans are getting a bit tetchy considering they've got the upper hand in this trade...

 

[The Donners]

Dons fans are getting a bit tetchy considering they've got the upper hand in this trade...

Well if we lose Lovett to Fremantle for no compensation I don't think there'd be too many surprised Essendon supporters, obviously a little disappointed but we'd get on with living the rest of our lives.

 

[Hencho]

I think Essendon is lucky there is interest from more than one club...and I'm pretty sure they'll make a deal with who ever they can, even if it turns out to be a third round pick. There is a good chance we'll get jack shit for Lovett. Lovett strikes me as the type of person who wouldn't care too much if the club got compensated for him leaving or not.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

What is Lovett's highest ever finish in the B&F?

Around the 10th mark.

 

[Grimreepah]

You're kidding me aren't you? Knights wanting to get rid of Lovett happened last year, if the papers went with the same story again after the failed attempt to move him on in the previous season would you buy the paper?

So all the journalists got together and hatched this plot that they will make up this story that Lovett wants to leave Essendon, and not the other way around, so they can sell more papers?

 

[SirJimi05]

I thought it was Lovett that wanted to leave. Essendon could have traded him last year for a 2nd round pick, but because he was contracted decided to keep him.

You might want to check your facts before making assumptions. Who could have Essendon traded him for a 2nd rounder with? Geelong agreed with our request for their second rounder but then reneged on the deal due to salary cap issues. They told us the only way they could take him is if we took that spud Tenace off their hands. We had no room for the spud at our club so we kept Lovett.

 

[SirJimi05]

Are you accusing Knights of deliberately fixing the results, or just lacking the ability to be objective?

Why doesn't Knights like Lovett?

You've got your head in the sand if you really believe coaches and clubs don't play favorites. James Hird won Essendons B&F in 2007. Are you going to tell me he was the most deserving winner?

Knights doesnt like Lovett because he is lazy, doesn't train hard, and has disciplined problems. Are you actually trying to tell us that Knights doesn't have a problem with Lovett?

Essendon didn't seem to mind when they got Mal Michael for free.

Maybe i don't know the situation. I thought Mal Michael retired because Leigh Matthews wouldn't allow him flexibility with his training workload? Sheedy then saw an opportunity, met with him and said he would give him that flexibility. What is wrong with coaxing a player out of retirement? How can the two situations be compared?

 

[Grimreepah]

You might want to check your facts before making assumptions. Who could have Essendon traded him for a 2nd rounder with? Geelong agreed with our request for their second rounder but then reneged on the deal due to salary cap issues. They told us the only way they could take him is if we took that spud Tenace off their hands. We had no room for the spud at our club so we kept Lovett.

Where do I go to check these 'facts'?

You've got your head in the sand if you really believe coaches and clubs don't play favorites. James Hird won Essendons B&F in 2007. Are you going to tell me he was the most deserving winner?

Knights doesnt like Lovett because he is lazy, doesn't train hard, and has disciplined problems. Are you actually trying to tell us that Knights doesn't have a problem with Lovett?

If Knight's is not professional enough to be objective in rating his players then he will never be a good coach. Do I think BigFooty posters are more objective than Knights? No. Do I think BigFooty posters have a better understanding of a player's ability than the coach? No.

 

[SirJimi05]

Where do I go to check these 'facts'?

A different place from wherever you found out Essendon could have taken a 2nd round pick for Lovett.

If Knight's is not professional enough to be objective in rating his players then he will never be a good coach. Do I think BigFooty posters are more objective than Knights? No. Do I think BigFooty posters have a better understanding of a player's ability than the coach? No.

Answer my question - Did James Hird deserve to win Essendons B&F in 2007 or do you think their was a touch of sentimentality? Would you consider this being objective? Your hand is buried deep in the sand.

 

[Grimreepah]

Answer my question - Did James Hird deserve to win Essendons B&F in 2007 or do you think their was a touch of sentimentality? Would you consider this being objective? Your hand is buried deep in the sand.

I didn't watch enough Essendon games in 2007 to comment. If that is the case then that cheapens the award if they can't even be objective about it.

 

[SirJimi05]

I didn't watch enough Essendon games in 2007 to comment. If that is the case then that cheapens the award if they can't even be objective about it.

It happens at all clubs. If Voss isn't a fan of a certain player for whatever reason and he is faced with giving his final votes to him and one other plater but is having trouble splitting them where do you think his votes are going? I don't really know why we are discussing this anyway. It's not really important. I very much doubt Brisbane are going ti be analyzing Essendons B&F results prior to making a decision on Lovett. If Voss is a fan i don't reckon he would give a stuff about any of that.

 

[Grimreepah]

It happens at all clubs. If Voss isn't a fan of a certain player for whatever reason and he is faced with giving his final votes to him and one other plater but is having trouble splitting them where do you think his votes are going?

Each player gets rated individually, so I can't see how it would be a case of choosing one over the other.

Regardless, I put it to you that all bias, favouritism, vendettas, etc are infinitely worse on BigFooty than that of the coaching staff.

I very much doubt Brisbane are going ti be analyzing Essendons B&F results prior to making a decision on Lovett. If Voss is a fan i don't reckon he would give a stuff about any of that.

Perhaps, but for the purposes of discussion, it is one of the best indicators we have of what his value is.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

How about you use your own intelligence. He is unpopular with the players, the coaches and is up for trade for a second straight year. If you don't think this influences the match review panel in any way then your head is stuck firmly in the sand. You can call it unprofessional but I would call it human nature.

So you are dismissing your own B&F results.

Let's be clear. That's what you're doing. You're saying "those results don't count, because I don't agree with them."