Team Mgmt. Makeup of our team II - Strengths & deficiencies, player development

[Old Campaigner]

Saints fan but I have family that support the Bombers so like to read what’s going on here.
Caddy and Durham look like a good start for a rebuild but nothing about the recent signings and general age demographic of your most prominent players suggest you’re in a rebuild.
Are you suggesting start a rebuild now? Who would you trade?

I would be open to trading anyone who isn't going to be around in 8 years or so, and who isn't helping drive the cultural shift the coach is looking for. It would be better imo to do it over the next couple of years one or two players at a time.

 

[crackers65]

Hardwicke started at the Tigers in 2010 and it took 7 years . First 3 years where 15t-12th-12th before 3 years of finals then 13th and then their 17 / 19 / 20 GF wins. Richmond already had Riewoldt / Edwards / Cotchin / Rance / Martin / Astbury / Grimes on the list before Hardwicke took over.

SuperCoach Hardwick already had the beginnings of a premiership team. Imagine if Scott had these 7 players his first year at Essendon. That would be our best 7 players!

 

[Yoda_]

Even just a Dusin Martin would be handy.

Remember a few people ribbed me for Adrian Dodoro not having any luck? This just another example of another club having the fall of the ball player in drafting. Some clubs just have all the luck whilst others have none. They then pot development when it sounds like a lot in the industry suggest luck is just as much a factor as it is development and s&c etc

 

[ghostdog]

Have decided that I will do a bit of a deep dive into some recent rebuilds . Have started a new thread because there will be a cross over of discussion between Essendon and other clubs .
I am currently getting some stats and time lines in order but I will look at Melbourne / Richmond / Hawthorn / Brisbane to start with.
Some facts I already have but will research further are

Melbourne took 9 years from when Roos / Goodwin / Taylor / Mahoney took over and only two players from that first year played in the GF winning side. Gawn and T McDonald .

The Hawks rebuild had its origins at the end of the 2019 season when they went 11-11 after making the top 4 the previous season but losing both finals. Mitchell was seen as the next coach even when he was midfield coach in 19/20 . A few of the players leading the charge now came in under the end of Clarkson's top up days and early days of rebuild.
Although Clarkson was pushed out early and Wright went to the Pies the promotions came from within and where all part of the new build from day one in their previous roles at the club.
Even though there was a fight at board level there both sides where backing Mitchell as coach. McCartney as GM of footy and McKenzie as list manager.
They had a very good CEO in Justin Reeves from 2017 who only stepped down in 2023 due to the pressure of the Racism scandal and mental health issues.

Hardwicke started at the Tigers in 2010 and it took 7 years . First 3 years where 15t-12th-12th before 3 years of finals then 13th and then their 17 / 19 / 20 GF wins. Richmond already had Riewoldt / Edwards / Cotchin / Rance / Martin / Astbury / Grimes on the list before Hardwicke took over.

You see why those clubs are wack and we're not? We're Essendon. We should be able to rebuild in 2 years FFS. It's clearly Scott's fault. Hird would have us top 4 by now. etc. etc. ad infinitum.

 

[ghostdog]

Hardwicke started at the Tigers in 2010 and it took 7 years . First 3 years where 15t-12th-12th before 3 years of finals then 13th and then their 17 / 19 / 20 GF wins. Richmond already had Riewoldt / Edwards / Cotchin / Rance / Martin / Astbury / Grimes on the list before Hardwicke took over.

SuperCoach Hardwick already had the beginnings of a premiership team. Imagine if Scott had these 7 players his first year at Essendon. That would be our best 7 players!

The board having the gumption to keep their resolve when they finished 13th was key. That's what we need for Scott, from the board and the fans.

 

[eth-dog]

Let's be serious here. Our rebuild is in year 4. None of our moves have suggested anything but rebuild and bringing in cheap fringe players from other clubs.

The issue currently is that most of the young core of Cox, Reid, Perkins, Hobbs, Tsatas, Hayes, Caddy and Lual have proven themselves. Please note I'm putting up the first and second round picks in that time. Yes, Caldwell, Martin, Durham and Duursma will be important and have settled into senior roles but the players above were picked to be that core.

I'm confident we'll get there. A few tweaks and you'd be surprised how quickly it could change.

 

[jannissary]

i think we're too proud of a club to actually commit to a 'rebuild' and will happily float around the 9/10 position on the ladder until we luck our way into a good draft hand

 

[Yoda_]

Let's be serious here. Our rebuild is in year 4. None of our moves have suggested anything but rebuild and bringing in cheap fringe players from other clubs.

The issue currently is that most of the young core of Cox, Reid, Perkins, Hobbs, Tsatas, Hayes, Caddy and Lual have proven themselves. Please note I'm putting up the first and second round picks in that time. Yes, Caldwell, Martin, Durham and Duursma will be important and have settled into senior roles but the players above were picked to be that core.

I'm confident we'll get there. A few tweaks and you'd be surprised how quickly it could change.

We need at least two of the kids under 22 to “pop” from kid to genuine game changer (does not mean superstar but game changer like Caldwell was starting to do last year before taking a further step this year)

 

[windyhill]

Hats off to the hawks. They have the secret recipe. Starts with smart left footers with immaculate delivery, blokes you trust with the ball. (D’Ambrosia anyone ?)Couldn’t trust one of our defenders. McGrath, McKay, Lav, Kelly, all borderline atrocious when forced to kick.

 

[Skipper_]

Hats off to the hawks. They have the secret recipe. Starts with smart left footers with immaculate delivery, blokes you trust with the ball. (D’Ambrosia anyone ?)Couldn’t trust one of our defenders. McGrath, McKay, Lav, Kelly, all borderline atrocious when forced to kick.

If only we could’ve had the chance to have someone like Massimo on our list…

 

[FootyGuru]

Saints fan but I have family that support the Bombers so like to read what’s going on here.
Caddy and Durham look like a good start for a rebuild but nothing about the recent signings and general age demographic of your most prominent players suggest you’re in a rebuild.
Are you suggesting start a rebuild now? Who would you trade?

Have a look at the age demographic of our actually best 22 last few weeks. Fielding a younger team than north.

 

[Vindicater]

This offseason/preseason is the big moment.

Core hopefully clicks on the gameplan. Last few pieces are added to round out the list.

Or

We stay mid table.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

It is a big off season as far as we will see the direction but I think the finishing touches will be added in the next few years. Not sure there is a lot to bring in that will nail a lot of gaps .

Agreed but they do need to show their hand a bit more. To date it's been tinkering around edges which is fine because Scott only came in after 22 trade season and needed a good look at list, but now we need to see the start of an actual strategy.

I'm cautiously optimistic but there is a lingering concern that there is still a breakdown between football department and list management/contracting because of the number of long contracts handed out and optics of dodoro still hanging around.

 

[Andyy]

Richmond boosted its roving division with Lambert Short & Castagna. In the rookie draft. Followed by Rioli, Bolton, Baker etc and just went to another level.
But the Prestia trade was the big one. Before that Martin had to go in and win the ball. Prestia took Martin off the leash.

Great observation.

Bringing in Nank & Caddy helped as well. Caddy played a bit of forward/mid, also releasing Dusty to do either.

Nank was actually a decent ruck.


Equally important to all of the above was the decision to trade out Deledio. A great player, but reportedly a terrible clubman and horrible for the culture. I think he was expected to be a leader because of his talent but absolutely wasn't suited to it. I don't think it's a coincidence that things turned after he left and Cotchin's approach to captaincy suddenly changed also.

 

[Howard Moon]

Feel like ant is taking a full club approach to analysis of a rebuild, focussing first on rebuilding the football dept, recruiting team , back of house ect. The main issue I have with our 'rebuild' outside of the obvious barnacles we are unable to scrape off the hull is that most successful builds generally start with a core set of players that you can build around. The problem out our way is we seem to be building around a rotten core which will would seemingly infect the new players and render any rebuild worthless. As the Richmond guy said, getting rid of deledio was a key moment for them

 

[BomberManU]

Has anyone actually used the term 'rebuild' officially, at Ess, when discussing where we're at?

 

[faible]

Has anyone actually used the term 'rebuild' officially, at Ess, when discussing where we're at?

Letter from the President

President Dave Barham addresses members and fans.

www.essendonfc.com.au

I'd say Barham & Scott have both made it clear this is a rebuilding phase, however you want to phrase it. Albeit not a scorched earth rebuild like Melbourne, Carlton and now North have all done.

 

[yodellinhank]

Apart from the fact we have just changed 90% of the football department in the last 2 years . But hey what would I know . Maybe check back in . You may find that not all rebuilds are about trashing everything .
Anyway I would prefer this does not become a free for all about nothing. It will end up being a comparison between where we are at and where a few sides who where around the mark the same time we where last around the mark.

The sides I used to look at were Port, Brisbane, North, Carlton, Tigers (to a lesser extent)- sides around the top 4 when we were.

What I thought I found then was being frozen out of the strong '99 and '01 drafts through success and wanting to retain players, you almost need to float around waiting to catch that next wave.

 

[Andyy]

I actually think Essendon has the core group it needs to make finals and be dangerous.

Forward line with Wright, Stringer, Caddy etc.
Backline of Mackay, Ridley.
Some good mids and wingers.

I suspect they've just timed their run poorly, similar to Carlton.

Need to finish the year with a healthy list and some form.

Perhaps something to learn from 2024 about list management and timing that run better?

 

[Milanista28]

Nothing changes until our players stop being weak in the mind, so many of our senior/long term players are conditional.

 

[faible]

Nothing changes until our players stop being weak in the mind, so many of our senior/long term players are conditional.

Makes selection a bit more understandable when you look at guys like Heppell, Laverde, Menzie, Guelfi and Kelly. Not the most talented but you know the effort you get each week.

 

[Ambrosia]

I have no faith it'll amount to much but we have a fairly solid core of 17-18 players of proven AFL quality with plenty of footy ahead of them.

If we can just stop messing up first round draft picks and continue to get good players in via the trade table then we should become a reasonable football side.

 

[Milanista28]

Makes selection a bit more understandable when you look at guys like Heppell, Laverde, Menzie, Guelfi and Kelly. Not the most talented but you know the effort you get each week.

And that is the balancing act . When does effort and buy into the game plan fall below output from performance.

I hear that, but I find that to be a big part of our problem, these guys have massive limitations and can't raise our ceiling, all they do is raise the floor, what ends up happening is we outperform the draft hand we need.

 

[faible]

I hear that, but I find that to be a big part of our problem, these guys have massive limitations and can't raise our ceiling, all they do is raise the floor, what ends up happening is we outperform the draft hand we need.

I guess it's a balance, you need to bring in talented younger guys that you can develop that can have competitiveness and understand the system and be able to play to a high level.

If you don't have guys that can build a culture of competitiveness and play the system, you often then fail to develop those young talented guys in to much at all.

Geelong and Sydney have remained perennially competitive because they've managed to build that culture and understanding of the system across multiple generations of players, such that new draftees come in and have the right support around them to maximise their talent, and aren't also expected to be saviours of the club.

Melbourne and Richmond both had to be dragged out of a hole of mediocrity and keep adding kids and senior bodies that had the right level of effort and understanding of system until such time as it allowed them to actually maximise the talent. Arguably Melbourne are stumbling right now, and Richmond are in a similar position to Hawthorn (albeit a few years behind them) where they're hoping that their existing culture and system will allow them to bounce back quickly.

Scott has to balance culture with talent, I don't think a scorched earth rebuild is necessarily the way to go given it doesn't fix the culture that's there and you then bring in all these young kids with the weight of the world (or at least the members) on their shoulders, and they often fail.

I don't think EFC has ever really dragged itself out of the semi-professional era of the past and in to the fully professional era of the future that Sydney and Geelong have so effectively done.

 

[Milanista28]

So you like tanks
From a coaching perspective and personal experiences it can be worse to try and build a game plan and culture by playing blokes who do no get it or do not have the buy in compared to those who do but are lacking in some areas .
Lots of clubs have used these types for a year or two when they are setting things up .

I don't think it's tanking, I think it's trying to win with players who aren't ready but are also not in danger of getting hurt, you will find out quick smart which players have the mental fortitude to fight and scrap when it's tough.

I'm not saying to play every kid all at once (even though I'd love that), but phasing the older blokes out over time is where we can improve, Bryan could've replaced Goldy in round 6, Roberts could've replaced Hep/Kelly in round 10, Hayes could've replaced Lav in round 14. Do the results suffer? probably, but are those 3 kids better equipped for senior footy come round 1 2025? I think so.