Malthouse prevented player revolt in 2011

[Monkey King]

If you were ever to put together an all-flog squad of the century, with the likes of Carey, Tippett, Fev, Akker et al in it, there is no doubt Malthouse would be the coach.

Hardly! Even just out of modern coaches Clarko is first in line.

Out of other more recent coaches I'd nominate Mark Williams as a dead-set gimmie too.

But boy oh boy, you Collingwood blokes have really turned on the man haven't you?

 

[bradrowe#32]

Could have been a legend if your President hadn't sold him up the river for his boy toy Buckley...

Malthouse wouldn't have coached us to a premiership if we hadn't put a time limit on him. We would've finished in the top four for the past few years without winning anything.

 

[Gone Critical]

Technically they could have, but that would have been extremely poor form from them and damaging to Bucks, so I take that as a couldn't myself. Maybe they asked, at a guess, given Eddie's comments and mannerisms it's fair to assume the question was never asked; certainly never with any strength of purpose.

Eddie is a savvy performer. I don't know at all if the question was asked but if it was Eddie wasn't giving it away to the public. Not a difficult thing for him to pull off at all.

 

[Gone Critical]

Nope. Read what I said, it's rare for a club. Please tell me in the last 20 years which club has achieved losing less than 2 games for the H&A season more than once? Rare as hen's teeth mate. I'm not saying it can be directly attributed to Bucks, but if we're going to play this game, then it can't be discounted either. The point is unarguable though, Mick had the Pies in a rare vein of form and the winning formula was messed with ... now you're back with the rest of the pack, perhaps even just off the pace of the leaders.

Not sure where you are going with this one. The answer as far as I can work out is nobody. Geelong obviously came closest . 18 wins in 2007 (only one loss after round 6) 3 finals wins then 2998 21:1 H&A before the losing GF. Best back to back H&W seasons I have seen. Add 18 wins 2009, 17 wins 2010 and 19 wins 2011 a truly spectacular record. In recent seasons Collingwood 2010-11 (17 and 20 wins) and St Kilda 2009-10 (20 and 15) are next best,Hawks good also. Suffice to say a number of teams have had impressive runs in recent years but only Geelong have translated that to multiple flags

I am not discounting the possibility that the agreement didn't cause any problems at Collingwood just that a myriad of other factors may also have come into play. Not the least is coming up against one of the truly great sides in AFL/VFL history. MM taking his eye off the ball and enhancing any problems is another factor to consider. Again we are just speculating on possibilities here. I don't believe if MM had stayed on and coached 2012 we would have won the flag assuming the same run with injuries etc. I am bullish about our prospects for 2013. Ball Thomas Cloke Krak Pendles Reid Brown of our established players are all likely to have better season in 2013 and Beams Sidey Fasalo Blair are young established players still rising. It's an impressive core when you add the other senior players.

 

[Gone Critical]

Well glad to see at least you can come to terms with a reasonable assessment based on outcome. I'm not confident Bucks can win two flags with the Pies. I just don't see it at all actually, but you can always dream. Not sure Mick will do so at the Blues either, but I can also dream.

A flag or 2 was my comment. With the list Collingwood has build I believe a flag only in 2010 would be an under achievement. The current list is good enough to get another for mine and that would represent a good return. 2 more would be fantastic.

Of course another flag would also puncture any arguments against the MM-Bucks transition

 

[G.O.B]

Since when have Australians sided with the petulant millionaire who signs a contract only to back out when it's no longer to his liking.
Half way through 2009 Malthouse was cooked. Several factors came into play, some personal and some professional.
A contract was placed in front of him, reviewed and modified until HE was READY to sign. It wasn't an obligation for him to sign it. He did so of his own free will knowing full well what the terms and conditions would entail.
Please note: Collingwood were not a dominant team of the competition at this stage.
Many supporters were calling for his head after 10 years and no silverware.
Fast foward 18 months or so, Collingwood have a Premiership and Malty no longer feels he should vacate his post.
What follows is one of the most dramatic and efficient falls from grace I have witnessed.
Worshipped in October of 2010, despised in October 2012.

 

[Monkey King]

Not sure where you are going with this one. The answer as far as I can work out is nobody.

Where I'm going is to support my original comment that this was a rare vein of form for a club. A point you seemingly denied. I just wanted to demonstrate to you that it was rare indeed.

The rest is just going in circles now. You had a winning formula that delivered a dominance rarely encountered by a club. You changed the formula. Now you're back with the pack, arguably behind the leaders. You are right in saying that the real success of the transition can only be measured by what comes over the next few years; but so far, it is fair to suggest that messing with that formula has taken the edge off your performances. This is a result based statement.

 

[mediumsizered]

I never said Malthouse was the only reason; you'd have to be simple minded to interpret my comments in that way. But yes, Malthouse was a key component of the formula that led to that domination. Denying this is just foolish.

Apparently Malthouse had nothing to do with their premiership success. He just went along for the ride.

The contrast between many Collingwood supporters' opinion of Malthouse 2 years ago & their opinion now is significant. A couple of years ago you couldn't knock Mick, but now, in the eyes of many Collingwood supporters, he was a very ordinary coach who only coached a premiership in 2010 because of the pressure generated by the succession plan. It had nothing to do with the likes of Pendlebury, Swan, Thomas, Wellingham, Cloke, Jolly, O'Brien, Toovey etc etc being in career best form.

 

[partylikeits1990]

You had a winning formula that delivered a dominance rarely encountered by a club. You changed the formula.

That winning formula included a deal whereby Malthouse would handover the coaching job to Buckley "at full stretch" after 2011 and take up a position as director of coaching. It is no coincidence that Collingwoods peroid of dominance bagan shortly after this deal was struck and Buckley became an assistant coach.

Malthouse changed the formula because his ego wouldn't allow him to do what was best for the footy club. Malthouse embarrased himself and destroyed his legacy at Collingwood when he made that appearance on the footy show two months or so before the grand final. Our premiership campaign was derailed then and there by a man who had lost sight of the fact that a car is just the sum of it's parts.

After last season we know that Buckley can coach and there is a very good chance Collingwood will dominate again over the next few seasons.

The chances of Malthouse delivering a flag to the Blues are very remote. If he does pull it off he will be bigger than Lethel, bigger than Sheeds, bigger than Jock McHale! Is he that good? I don't think so......but he certainly does.

Malthouse is the only coach in the history of footy to switch from Collingwood to Carlton or vice versa. Why is this the case?

He has now alienated the Pies and unless he delivers a flag, he will never be embraced by the Blues. It's a hiding to nothing.....good luck Mick, good luck Monkey. CARN THE PIES!!

 

[Gone Critical]

Where I'm going is to support my original comment that this was a rare vein of form for a club. A point you seemingly denied. I just wanted to demonstrate to you that it was rare indeed.

The rest is just going in circles now. You had a winning formula that delivered a dominance rarely encountered by a club. You changed the formula. Now you're back with the pack, arguably behind the leaders. You are right in saying that the real success of the transition can only be measured by what comes over the next few years; but so far, it is fair to suggest that messing with that formula has taken the edge off your performances. This is a result based statement.

Rarely encountered but clearly bettered by Geelong in recent seasons and similar to runs Saints and
Hawks have had. Not denying Collingwood have had a great run over the last few years just that such a run doesn't automatically coincide with multiple flags. Collingwood is in that zone now. Time will tell how successful we end up being. MM coached in 2011 and didn't win, Buckley 2012 ditto. You are reading to much into the transition. Collingwood are strong because of the whole organisation. MM had a lot to do with this. Its his mantra that no club should be dependent on an individual.

Collingwood isn't and that's a tribute to MM. I think it suits your argument to laud the run we had in 2010-11 and overrate out fall in 2012. Lots of fans and "experts" get sucked into overblown claims. It comes from being short sighted and forgetting history. Flags are hard to win. Look back over the peaks and troughs even the great sides have had. This Collingwood side is very much in the mix and I thank MM among others for that. We have a very good young coach for mine and success awaits.

Good onya Mick and go Bucks. 2 great Collingwood men.

 

[partylikeits1990]

Collingwood are strong because of the whole organisation. MM had a lot to do with this. Its his mantra that no club should be dependent on an individual.

Word!

 

[Monkey King]

That winning formula included a deal whereby Malthouse would handover the coaching job to Buckley "at full stretch" after 2011 and take up a position as director of coaching. It is no coincidence that Collingwoods peroid of dominance bagan shortly after this deal was struck and Buckley became an assistant coach.

Yes. It's no surprise that as guys like Cloke, Reid, Brown, Pendles, Thomas moved into the right age & experience bracket that the team started to dominate under Mick. You say this coincides with an agreement, but where you and I differ is I think it's the agreement that has brought you undone from last year to this on - whereas you think it's what put you together; but as Mick showed in the years he first took over the Pies, he has what it takes to put a list together and take them to the last day in September, he didn't need an agreement to do that.

And yes, he has alienated the Pies. Eddie and the majority of you blokes have been thoroughly classless in your handling of his departure. I'm not sure why you all expected him to roll over like a submissive dog for you. It was clear something should have been to stop the transition while the team was in full swing; it looked clear that Eddie and Bucks had their own agenda-first approach over looking after the team that Mick was very close to, so in the end he had no option but to walk. Sticking around wasn't an option and even Eddie realised this in the end.

 

[Monkey King]

Rarely encountered but clearly bettered by Geelong in recent seasons and similar to runs Saints and Hawks have had.

Yes. Rarely encountered form.

I'm not overrating Collingwood's drop in form. Just noting it and the circumstances that surround it.

Good onya Mick and go Bucks. 2 great Collingwood men.

Glad you can say this, although I don't think Mick is a "Collingwood man" like Eddie is. But he is one of Collingwood's greatest modern coaches.

 

[Gone Critical]

Glad you can say this, although I don't think Mick is a "Collingwood man" like Eddie is. But he is one of Collingwood's greatest modern coaches.

Agreed and he has suffererd in the eyes of a lot of Collingwood people recently. Still that will blow over with time especially if Bucks succeeds and Carlton doesn't

Eddie and Mick have run off at the mouth a bit recently and it hasn't reflected that well on either of them. Both of them do that and I doubt care about it too much. Bucks has come out of it well as he has defused controversy and not allowed himself to get dragged into ant mudslinging. As a coach dealing with the media has been exceptionally good.

 

[Monkey King]

Agreed and he has suffererd in the eyes of a lot of Collingwood people recently. Still that will blow over with time especially if Bucks succeeds and Carlton doesn't

Eddie and Mick have run off at the mouth a bit recently and it hasn't reflected that well on either of them. Both of them do that and I doubt care about it too much. Bucks has come out of it well as he has defused controversy and not allowed himself to get dragged into ant mudslinging. As a coach dealing with the media has been exceptionally good.

Yep! Have to acknowledge this. As I said before, Buck is the kid with the candy so to speak, so it's much easier for him to sit back and smile, but he's really handled himself with far more poise than his older counterparts. He's always been super professional though, from the minute he stepped into AFL. Seems to have a great temperament to be a senior coach, publicly anyway.

As much as I love the spike in rivalry between our club's supporters, you'd hope all this settles down once Mick gets hold of the reins at the Blues and irrespective of what happens in his time at the Blues, that Pies supporters can at least be grateful for the work he did (and Eddie) in dragging your club out of the quagmire of the Rose-Shaw days.

 

[jasonwilde]

"Collingwood, like and good business, expects perfection and professionalism from its employees". It's a self congratulatory statement that doesn't have much rub with me. "Oh yes, we supporters can carry on like chooks because Collingwood expects perfection and professionalism from its employees". Can't be stuffed responding to such tripe tbh. And let's face it, it's hard to take that waffle seriously, particularly when Eddie himself has hardly been held to these same principles.

BTW ... Hi Wayne What do you have to say on the matter? LOL

Yes, only Collingwood supporters carry on like chooks. FFS, see Carlton after the loss to CG, or the wins over us this year. Flags 16 & 17 were yours already ('95 don't count buddy)

Did Malthouse act like a chook or not? Gone Critical and others have given you reasons as to why many of us feel this is the case, however, true to form, you have ignore them. Only choose to take in what you want to, just as you only choose to respond to the questions that you want to. You are under no obligation, however, this is not the Bay. If you want to engage in a reasonable discussion then you must attempt to follow certain conventions. You are not doing this and are simply trolling.

Who is Wayne?

 

[tugga]

a reminder for everyone to play the ball and not the man.

 

[PieLebo87]

Haha keep it up Wayne, you're getting under his skin, he has mentioned you multiple times, yet you've said not one thing, or done a thing wrong.

I think he despises the fact there is a Collingwood supporter who isn't getting sucked into his trolling attempts.

Ive kept an eye on this thread since it started and all it seems to be is the monkey just having subtle digs. You'll have the foolish Pies supporters sucked in, and he'll troll further, then the logical ones respond and he then smarts up the trolls. You'd wonder why he wasn't as interested in the succession plan when it happened, only after the Pies won the flag and Malthouse leaves... hmmmmm... definitely not a pathetic troll.

 

[jasonwilde]

Here; tell you what ... let's play a game. You address the points in my post and I'll consider answering your questions. How does that sound?

You are sounding ridiculous but here goes, KS style:
"Not much to say to this post other than your first and last lines apply far more to your own post than any of mine.

Response: okay

And FWIW, I am under no obligation to reply to an entire post nor every point;
Respnose: I have answered this already and siad you're under no obligation but that this isn't the Bay
just as GC for example doesn't with mine. I'm not going to get in a huff about, or take that an as indication of being disingenuous. Some people are busy, some have an agenda to stick to and keep within that. However, if you read my posts, you will see that despite only quoting a smaller portion of most posts, I try at least to respond to the key elements expressed within reason.
Response: I have suggested that in some of my posts, you seem to be confusing what the 'key elements' are

But it is quite an irony that you bold a couple of lines and go off half cocked on that basis.
Response: I don't think you understand the meaning of the word irony.


To be honest, it's like I'm talking to a child. I have answered everything you've asked. I've explained why some of us have genuine reason to not be happy with Malthouse, even when we used to sing his praises. Sounds reasonable? No, you choose to not respond to this. As I said, this would be okay, but it's not the Bay. Now, you said Buckley's job has been easy because of Mick. I pulled you up on this and had to bloody simplify my points for your Monkey-sized brain. So, MK, pretty please with a cherry on top, answer the three questions I have listed above.

 

[PieLebo87]

a reminder for everyone to play the ball and not the man.

'ball' = Collingwood FC?

All this thread is, is a Carlton supporter sharing not one ounce of fact. Just his 'opinion', shooting down the Collingwood FC and Eddie re the succession plan. When are you going to move it to bay 13?

 

[Monkey King]

'ball' = Collingwood FC?

All this thread is, is a Carlton supporter sharing not one ounce of fact. Just his 'opinion', shooting down the Collingwood FC and Eddie re the succession plan. When are you going to move it to bay 13?

Is this not a forum for expressing opinion? Geez. I'm not attacking other posters, I'm responding in a reasoned fashion. Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean it gets moved to the Bay. I'm more than entitled to say I think moving Malthouse on messed with a winning formula and results thus far support the statement. It's hardly a vacuous opinion.

I'm not going to bother responding to either of you blokes any further. What a waste of time!

And FWIW ...

- I really like the enigma of Wayne Arnold. Not getting under my skin at all.

- The word irony describes exactly your actions jasonwilde. What an ironic condescension

So until Gone Critical returns or anyone else has something decent to discuss ... zie wei

 

[PieLebo87]

What Carlton has done to Ratten is 100x worse than what has happened with Collingwood/Malthous, but that's typical Carlton for ya, that's my opinion.