Mick still bitter?

[Timmy from Thomastown]

..so, you force a succession plan on a proven coach to put in another that's still got to undergo their coaching apprenticeship..?.. ..honestly here, do you believe this would of happened with anyone else other than Buckley..?..

Buckley is no less experienced than what Roos Clarkson Worsfold Thompson Scott and Longmire were when they took the reigns. And Lyon for that matter who is a bees dick of also being a premiership coach.

Picking new blood is the way to win flags these days. If it happens to be a player from your own club, so be it, its not crucial but its not a bad thing either. Each to their own. Theres a few out there, Worsfold, Buckley, Hird/Thompson, Voss even the recently deposed Ratten....its not particularly strange to pick your own people as coaches.

Good luck with going for the "proven" coach. It worked well with Pagan didnt it?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

.
..however, these succession plans are not similar.. ..Roo's chose his timing and manner of exit, instigating the succession plan himself, choosing and grooming himself his heir in Longmire.. ..also, just because one worked at a different club, doesn't mean yours will either.. ..Parkin did his own, Brits lasted 1 season....

That only shows the difference i character between Roos and Malthouse. The succession plan however is largely identical.....annointing a replacement a year or two before handover.

 

[Monkey King]

He'd have no idea what the new contracts were signed for.

He'd have a very fair idea. You're just pretending he wouldn't. He knows the list and club intimately and would have a pretty damned good idea of the cap space. I'm not saying he knows the contracts down to the cent, but pretending he's completely in the dark and couldn't possibly have any idea shows me you're is major denial.

Especially Lynch's contract.

If Carlton were, as you all suggest, in the chase for Lynch; I suspect he has a pretty good idea of Lynch's contract.

 

[Monkey King]

I'm not sure what was fabricated about Mick not being at the club when the contracts were signed? It's a fact.

What's fabricated is the belief; nay, complete and utter denial, that Mick would have any more of an idea than your average BigFooty punter. This is real head in the sand stuff.

 

[neroblack]

What's fabricated is the belief; nay, complete and utter denial, that Mick would have any more of an idea than your average BigFooty punter. This is real head in the sand stuff.

I think the reason people are surprised that Mick said he would be "staggered" if Collingwood didn't have to move on a star player are twofold; it's been pretty clearly reported how salary cap space is being freed up at Collingwood, and now that Mick is in the role of Carlton coach it's also logical to take anything he says about other clubs with a grain of salt (especially to take attention away from comments other people make about Carlton's salary cap situation).

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Do people actually realise that just because Eddie is the face of Collingwood (as he should be, what with being the president and all..) doesn't mean he makes all the decisions himself? You're just showing your own ignorance as to how a footy club, or any organisation is actually ran.

..eddie's very influential, the board's bought into his vision, and so far he's managed a successful club since taking over when it was at a low point.. ..yes lots of ppl need to agree, but most would be following eddie's lead as well.. ..eddie was the driving force behind the succession plan because it was targeting bucks.. ..it's highly doubtful that any club would lock in a timeframe for a coach that has the team going very well, for an untried coach that still requires teaching..

 

[Monkey King]

I think the reason people are surprised that Mick said he would be "staggered" if Collingwood didn't have to move on a star player are twofold ...

As I said, I haven't seen or heard the quote, so can't comment on "star player" this or that. I'm just challenging the assertion from Timmy, that Mick would have less idea of Collingwood's salary cap space than a BigFooty punter.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If Carlton were, as you all suggest, in the chase for Lynch; I suspect he has a pretty good idea of Lynch's contract.

Not neccessarily. By all accounts he brushed Carlton off quickly and discussions (if any) would not have got anywhere near the issue of finances.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

As I said, I haven't seen or heard the quote, so can't comment on "star player" this or that. I'm just challenging the assertion from Timmy, that Mick would have less idea of Collingwood's salary cap space than a BigFooty punter.

Its a moving feast. No outsider would have any clue even with intimate knowledge of the previous year, because contracts change every year.

 

[neroblack]

..eddie's very influential, the board's bought into his vision, and so far he's managed a successful club since taking over when it was at a low point.. ..yes lots of ppl need to agree, but most would be following eddie's lead as well.. ..eddie was the driving force behind the succession plan because it was targeting bucks.. ..it's highly doubtful that any club would lock in a timeframe for a coach that has the team going very well, for an untried coach that still requires teaching..

There are plenty of examples where that has happened.

Mick wasn't fired from Collingwood, he agreed to the succession plan, and then at some point changed his mind. Many people are of the view that we may not have won 2010 if the succession plan wasn't in place, as it drove Mick to gear the side up for immediate success. I'm not sure I agree with that view, but I understand how people could form that opinion.

I know people like to joke about it all being about Eddie and Buckley, but it's not..

 

[Monkey King]

Not neccessarily. By all accounts he brushed Carlton off quickly and discussions (if any) would not have got anywhere near the issue of finances.

Oh you're not being very sensible about this. But I probably couldn't expect that from a Pies poster at this point. So you say Mick's guessing and has no idea ... but this comment somehow represents reality.

Little Eddie syndrome!

Its a moving feast. No outsider would have any clue even with intimate knowledge of the previous year, because contracts change every year.

Rubbish! The head man would have a pretty good idea just one year out. He'd know what was upcoming and after 10 years with the club, know what the offers were likely to be. Certainly better than that of a BigFooty punter.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Buckley is no less experienced than what Roos Clarkson Worsfold Thompson Scott and Longmire were when they took the reigns. And Lyon for that matter who is a bees dick of also being a premiership coach.

Picking new blood is the way to win flags these days. If it happens to be a player from your own club, so be it, its not crucial but its not a bad thing either. Each to their own. Theres a few out there, Worsfold, Buckley, Hird/Thompson, Voss even the recently deposed Ratten....its not particularly strange to pick your own people as coaches.

Good luck with going for the "proven" coach. It worked well with Pagan didnt it?

..sure Buckley was like some of those in-experienced coaches you named, and could come good too.. ..sure.. ..but MM was still coaching strongly at that point in time, you guys just missed out on reaching the '07 GF, a huge effort after bottoming out only a couple of years earlier.. ..and you were a top4 prelim side, with an improving list.. ..everything came to a rushed conclusion when Bucks was an option for the Roo's.. ..before that he was even at your club..

 

[Pie in the Sky]

..sure Buckley was like some of those in-experienced coaches you named, and could come good too.. ..sure.. ..but MM was still coaching strongly at that point in time, you guys just missed out on reaching the '07 GF, a huge effort after bottoming out only a couple of years earlier.. ..and you were a top4 prelim side, with an improving list.. ..everything came to a rushed conclusion when Bucks was an option for the Roo's.. ..before that he was even at your club..

People forget that Malthouse was under pressure for his position at the time of the succession plan, he would quite probably have been sacked if it wasn't for the plan.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

..sure Buckley was like some of those in-experienced coaches you named, and could come good too.. ..sure.. ..but MM was still coaching strongly at that point in time, you guys just missed out on reaching the '07 GF, a huge effort after bottoming out only a couple of years earlier.. ..and you were a top4 prelim side,..

Theres a lot of top four coaches in the AFL. They dont all succeed and they dont all keep their jobs. In fact most dont. Malthouse was there for 10 years without success yet was afforded another two years to deliver, and five years in total on the staff.

 

[jonbe54]

..sure Buckley was like some of those in-experienced coaches you named, and could come good too.. ..sure.. ..but MM was still coaching strongly at that point in time, you guys just missed out on reaching the '07 GF, a huge effort after bottoming out only a couple of years earlier.. ..and you were a top4 prelim side, with an improving list.. ..everything came to a rushed conclusion when Bucks was an option for the Roo's.. ..before that he was even at your club..

Rubbish the only thing that was rushing to a conclusion was Mick's 'legendary' reputation and his tenure at the Pies. Collingwood showed faith and saved that reputation by renewing his tenure for another 5 years.

 

[demon_dynasty13]

Then there is Mick.If he stumbles one inch next year there will be a lynch mob led by Mark Robinson who cant wait to persecute him for past misdemeanors
Its going to be great theater.

oh no, not that fat chain smoking slob from the Hun!!

Im sure Mick Malthouse is shaking in his boots!

 

[doppleganger]

So you reckon MM coached succesfully for 10 years at Collingwood with just a plan A and no plan B.

Having no Plan B cost us time and time again, especially in the big dance.

I suppose it was all luck as well that when he first took over the club which was a basket case early on and down the bottom of the ladder he fluked Collingwood into 2 successive grand finals within a few years with an ordinary side

This ordinary side concept is laughable.

2002-03 the cattle were on the park - Buckley, Burns, Tarrant, Rocca, Licca, Fraser, Clement, Woewy, Wakelin, Didak, Johnson were all fit, and they played in GFs

2004-2005 - Buckley, Rocca, Tarrant, Fraser, Johnson, Didak all missed large chunks of the season, and the Pies collapsed in a heap, falling to the bottom.

2006 - Buckley, Fraser, Rocca, Tarrant, Didak, Johnson are all back in the side and they back off the canvas in finals again.

It is about the cattle, MM couldn't do anything in 04-05 to stop us falling to bottom 4.

and continued to build a side that would make finals on a regular basis until the 2010 flag came long.

The side regularly lost finals in 06-09, 10 years at the best resourced club in the game without a flag.....lucky not to be sacked after the 09 PF belting.

As some posted earlier on he won 3 premierships, made 7 grand finals, 12 top 4 finishes and finals 19 of the 23 years he coached both WC and Collingwood which is a record most coaches would dream of yet you still refuse to give him any credit. I wont bother responding to any more of posts cause you clearly have no clue

I am pointing out some pretty blatant failures, and the fact that MM had the luxury of coaching at the two best resourced clubs in the game, with ridiculously strong playing lists.....when his list wasn't strong (04-05) MM was a bottom 4 coach.

The bloke is a great motivator and getting 'his boys' to buy in to his plan, but he wasn't a great match day coach.

 

[doppleganger]

Keep leading that blind faith just don;t walk into any walls now, he was far from finished and got the best of every single list he worked worth not something you just throw out of the door to hire an untried coach specially after he just made the grandfinal.

Debateable whether 2 flags for West Coast was the best they could have expected.....they were a brilliant side from 90-94.

I'm shocked how many Collingwood fans in the space of a year have forgotten what he bought to your club and where you pulled it from.

Most Collingwood fans are shocked at how neutral supporters have forgotten how MM was rated at the end of 09....he was a washed up bloke who had been coaching for 15 seasons without a flag.

How many coaches get a contract extension after 15 seasons without a flag?!?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Most Collingwood fans are shocked at how neutral supporters have forgotten how MM was rated at the end of 09....he was a washed up bloke who had been coaching for 15 seasons without a flag.

How many coaches get a contract extension after 15 seasons without a flag?!?

I'm shocked that you refer to these people as "neutral" supporters. We all know that if it was another team other than Collingwood they wouldnt give a rats clacker.

 

[MarkT2]

The salary cap is such that $250k is a large amount of space when re negotiating contracts. No way in hell would MM be able to guess within $250k the contratcs signed this year. He wouldn't know the amount or the structure of Cloke's deal for a start let alone Shaw or Pendlebury who would have signed good deals let alone the many others re-signed this year. Nor would MM know who will be delisted. The likes of Wood and Buckley will open cap space but MM doesn't know if they willbe delisted or not.

MM would not know if Collingwood were over or had $250k to spare this year let alone going forward and that is all that it would take to re-sign the rest of the contracts.

 

[bourbons]

Whatever he was doing before the succession plan clearly wasn't working and even then he had to rely on the bounce of the ball.

Please. He got a very average list to grand finals in his 3rd and 4th years. The fact that you ran into one of the greatest teams in the history of AFL/VFL both times is not his fault.

We forced a succession plan on an unsuccessful coach.

It won us a flag.

Gotta laugh whenever I see this (which is more and more often over the last 12 months - gee I wonder why). I know flags are the ultimate goal, but in no universe is Malthouse an 'unsuccessful coach'.

I say a coach who was clearly able to extract the best out of his list and consistently got his team to prelims would have broken through for a flag sooner rather than later anyway. Yes, thats an opinion, as is your assertion that the succession plan won you a flag. Please don't try to present it as fact.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Gotta laugh whenever I see this (which is more and more often over the last 12 months - gee I wonder why). I know flags are the ultimate goal, but in no universe is Malthouse an 'unsuccessful coach'.

No flags in ten years. His time was up.

 

[jonbe54]

Please. He got a very average list to grand finals in his 3rd and 4th years. The fact that you ran into one of the greatest teams in the history of AFL/VFL both times is not his fault.



Gotta laugh whenever I see this (which is more and more often over the last 12 months - gee I wonder why). I know flags are the ultimate goal, but in no universe is Malthouse an 'unsuccessful coach'.

I say a coach who was clearly able to extract the best out of his list and consistently got his team to prelims would have broken through for a flag sooner rather than later anyway. Yes, thats an opinion, as is your assertion that the succession plan won you a flag. Please don't try to present it as fact.

Gotta love how Malthouse turned from a tired old has been in BFerss eyes 5 years ago to a legend 2 years ago and now he's out of Collingwood all of a sudden he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

You people are the living end

 

[SE_Blue]

Think it's hard to criticise him for not winning more Grand Finals. At some point it is the player's reponsibility, Mick can't very well go out there and kick the ball for them. The Pies were never going to beat Brisbane in 02 and 03.

 

[doppleganger]

Please. He got a very average list to grand finals in his 3rd and 4th years. The fact that you ran into one of the greatest teams in the history of AFL/VFL both times is not his fault.

Absolute myth that the 02-03 side was ordinary, which MM has basically built his ridiculous legacy from.

When the key players from the 02-03 sides were injured, MM coached the team to two bottom four finishes....

Carlton's key players - Waite, Jamison in particular are constantly injured - MM wont know what to do if they go down.